play, I don't think many (if any) regard alibats as a good thing. The question is more about supply, economics, and is there a real alternative.
Player safety should come first. I consider both wood and composite bats to be viable alternatives. Players, coaches and parents should accept the fact that players need to learn to hit with wood bats. I don't believe the cost is the big issue here. Cost is a convenient excuse for those who are resistant to change.
Watch a game played with wood and one played with metal. No Brainer
As a parent of a hitter, I think the cost would be about the same ... replace 2-3 wood bats a year or replace a good alum bat every 12 months. The alum bat just goes dead or finally gets dented after playing for 3-4 different teams over twelve months of year round ball.
As a parent of a pitcher, I'd welcome the additional safety factor of wood. We had a pitcher get knocked out this summer in a Mickey Mantle playoff on a comebacker ... sharply hit one-hopper, he tried to bend down and field it as he finished his follow through, and it richoceted off the heel of his glove and hit him in the forehead. He was lucky he took it in the forehead and not straight in the face. He ended up with a mild concussion and a knot on his head instead of a fractured face.
The only thing about alum is that it can help average hitters to hit well since the sweet spot is more forgiving ... and there's a lot of average hitters on any HS team. Going to wood could certainly give HS teams with quality pitching staffs an extra edge, and one could argue that HS teams with quality pitching already have an edge.
Since HS programs don't pay for bats anymore anyway, and it costs parents about the same, it's really a debate on safety versus generating offense where the typical HS team has a few really good hitters, then a bunch of average hitters. You would definitely see the HR stats drop severely across the HS leagues ... far fewer HS kids can consistently go yard with wood.
As a parent of a pitcher, I'd welcome the additional safety factor of wood. We had a pitcher get knocked out this summer in a Mickey Mantle playoff on a comebacker ... sharply hit one-hopper, he tried to bend down and field it as he finished his follow through, and it richoceted off the heel of his glove and hit him in the forehead. He was lucky he took it in the forehead and not straight in the face. He ended up with a mild concussion and a knot on his head instead of a fractured face.
The only thing about alum is that it can help average hitters to hit well since the sweet spot is more forgiving ... and there's a lot of average hitters on any HS team. Going to wood could certainly give HS teams with quality pitching staffs an extra edge, and one could argue that HS teams with quality pitching already have an edge.
Since HS programs don't pay for bats anymore anyway, and it costs parents about the same, it's really a debate on safety versus generating offense where the typical HS team has a few really good hitters, then a bunch of average hitters. You would definitely see the HR stats drop severely across the HS leagues ... far fewer HS kids can consistently go yard with wood.
How about deadening aluminum bats to the specs of an old Black Magic? $59.99 at Sports Authority.
Black Magic: $9 to manufacture, Dealer cost around $35-$40, retail for 59.99. profit to manufacture $26-$31
New rocket launcher alum bat: $45 to manufacture, Dealer cost aroung $150-$185, retail for $279.95. profit to manufacturer $95-$140
200,000 bats sold @ $31 profit= $6.2M
200,000 bats sold @ $140 profit= $28M
$21.8M down the drain.
Don't get me wrong I would love to see them tune down the bats like the old days, but they will not unless thet are forced to by law, or rule.
Composites (one pice handle wrapped bats), not laminates (more than one piece glued together) are a viable option.
New rocket launcher alum bat: $45 to manufacture, Dealer cost aroung $150-$185, retail for $279.95. profit to manufacturer $95-$140
200,000 bats sold @ $31 profit= $6.2M
200,000 bats sold @ $140 profit= $28M
$21.8M down the drain.
Don't get me wrong I would love to see them tune down the bats like the old days, but they will not unless thet are forced to by law, or rule.
Composites (one pice handle wrapped bats), not laminates (more than one piece glued together) are a viable option.
quote:
Originally posted by bbscout:
I don't think that wood will ever be back in College, at least in the top 100 or so D1 schools. The schools/coaches get a nice check every year to use the metal bats.The makers of the wood bats don't give checks out to use their bats.......you send them checks. The good maple bats are now between $70-100 and they break like twigs. The cost to use them would be tremendous. People say that MLB should buy the bats for the schools, but they would have two problems......1. The schools/coaches who get the yearly check and 2.The NCAA accepting bats from a professional baseball organization won't happen.....they won't let the skier from Colorado play football, so I don't think they will take the bats from MLB. The composition bats that don't break are garbage.....poor balance and are almost the same as the metal bats.
The only chance for wood is in High School and JC . It won't happen in D1 schools.
As far as injury, wait until the bats start shattering and the spears start whirlybirding their way to the mound. The lawyers will have a field day and the schoolboards will be demanding to bring back the metal bats.
But they'd also sell numerically more wood bats than alum due to breakage, and also parents might be willing to buy two different lengths in wood (e.g., a 33" for batting against a good FB pitcher and a 34" for batting against a pitcher with less than average stuff), but not in alum.
Two years ago our high school league switched back to wood. There are pros and cons. Here are some quick thoughts: Stats get worse for hitters, better for pitchers. The "real deal" players rise to the top. Average or marginal high school players get discouraged (especially hitters). Average pitchers stats are way out of line because many hitters have not yet learned how to hit with wood. It takes much instruction to retrain players to hit with wood (assuming the coach knows how to hit with wood). Strength training becomes even more important at an earlier age. Hitters don't have huge stats, thus more effort is put into placing players into college programs. More expensive than aluminum and that's the bottom line for many high schools.
Here is my take on it:As a varsity high school coach it is initially challenging to teach players to adjust to a wood bat game- both hiters and pitchers. Also, you actually have to manage a game a bit more. However, I sincerely believe the kids become more complete and better players by playing with wood. It is, afterall, the way the game was meant to be played.
P.S. If you are wondering if it has hurt the kids for college, the answer is a resounding no. In the last three years we have placed 12 players in college programs: 5 D I, 1 D II, 6 DIII-out of New York!
Here is my take on it:As a varsity high school coach it is initially challenging to teach players to adjust to a wood bat game- both hiters and pitchers. Also, you actually have to manage a game a bit more. However, I sincerely believe the kids become more complete and better players by playing with wood. It is, afterall, the way the game was meant to be played.
P.S. If you are wondering if it has hurt the kids for college, the answer is a resounding no. In the last three years we have placed 12 players in college programs: 5 D I, 1 D II, 6 DIII-out of New York!
If they won't ban them at least eliminate the differential between the length and weight...afterall batspeed is a major factor in hitting effectiveness, see what happened when they went from -5 to -3.
Gloveman: Why do you feel laminates are not a viable option? I'm curious as to your take on this.
Having been involved in a business for many years dealing with structural laminates it is a fact that properly laminated woods are by far both stronger and more stable than (solid) wood.
That being said, I have hit with both laminates and composites. Laminates don't seem to have the same (for lack of a better term "pop") as a solid wood bat or a composite (wrapped / coated).
Just curious as to your take.
Having been involved in a business for many years dealing with structural laminates it is a fact that properly laminated woods are by far both stronger and more stable than (solid) wood.
That being said, I have hit with both laminates and composites. Laminates don't seem to have the same (for lack of a better term "pop") as a solid wood bat or a composite (wrapped / coated).
Just curious as to your take.
quote:
properly laminated woods
I think that is the key. They have to be properly laminated, with quality wood to begin with.
The ones that I have seen have been made of inferior wood, close grains, bad color, etc.
I've seen a Brett, literally crushed with ball marks, and indentions so big, you could make a plaster cast of bigfoot (jk)
You're right about the "pop", mainly because there's not a uniform grain structure.
Gloveman - Thanks for the response. My kid has three Bretts - two Dragons and a Stealth. The Dragons are o.k. with minimal 'denting'. The Stealth is not worth picking up. It's beginning to look like a cricket bat. I attribute this to the woods used. Poor grades of a soft maple.
One thing is for sure: They don't break or delaminate even after batting practice 3-4 times a week for a year. Has saved me a ton of $$$. I like that.
One thing is for sure: They don't break or delaminate even after batting practice 3-4 times a week for a year. Has saved me a ton of $$$. I like that.
BBScout is correct, we asked many coaches about the use of wood bats in the future, too expensive. While some of the bigger schools may be able to afford them, no one else could on their budgets. It wil never happen.
That's why they send their players who they feel have a potential to be drafted to play in summer leagues.
That's why they send their players who they feel have a potential to be drafted to play in summer leagues.
What about saving the rainforest? Just kidding.
My son has used Brett bats for 3 years now. His oldest was a Maple Master that he just broke in a fall wood bat league this summer. (Clean break at the top of the reinforced wrapped handle. He got sawed off on an inside pitch. Weak single over 3rd baseman's head.) He purchased a Maple/Bamboo to replace it. His Maple/Bamboo has dented like described in an earlier post but not so it is unusable. He really likes the feel of swinging the bat, says it "smoooooth" and has a "sweet" sweet spot. He also has a Stealth that he uses in BP sometimes because it is a 33" and he usually swings a 32". He describes Stealth as feeling "clunkier" than the Dragon or the Maple Master.
Our experience has been that these bats have actually been more durable than $300 ali bats of which he replaces every 6 to nine months because they "lose their pop". He likes the way they feel swinging, and given all of the endless hours of soft-toss and BP that I do with him the sound alone is worth whatever the cost of using wood. In my actual experience the "too expensive" argument is just an excuse our spoken out of ignorance. Heck, the HS around here don't buy bats for anybody, the kids supply their own. There are choices of high performance modern wood bats that are more economical than high performance ali bats. Especially on an anual basis. It's time for HS coaches to get with the times and move to BESR certified wood bats.
My son hopes that ali is outlawed for HS play.
My son has used Brett bats for 3 years now. His oldest was a Maple Master that he just broke in a fall wood bat league this summer. (Clean break at the top of the reinforced wrapped handle. He got sawed off on an inside pitch. Weak single over 3rd baseman's head.) He purchased a Maple/Bamboo to replace it. His Maple/Bamboo has dented like described in an earlier post but not so it is unusable. He really likes the feel of swinging the bat, says it "smoooooth" and has a "sweet" sweet spot. He also has a Stealth that he uses in BP sometimes because it is a 33" and he usually swings a 32". He describes Stealth as feeling "clunkier" than the Dragon or the Maple Master.
Our experience has been that these bats have actually been more durable than $300 ali bats of which he replaces every 6 to nine months because they "lose their pop". He likes the way they feel swinging, and given all of the endless hours of soft-toss and BP that I do with him the sound alone is worth whatever the cost of using wood. In my actual experience the "too expensive" argument is just an excuse our spoken out of ignorance. Heck, the HS around here don't buy bats for anybody, the kids supply their own. There are choices of high performance modern wood bats that are more economical than high performance ali bats. Especially on an anual basis. It's time for HS coaches to get with the times and move to BESR certified wood bats.
My son hopes that ali is outlawed for HS play.
Being the 55th person to reply, it's a moot point -- but I want the world to know (or at least limom) that I would love to see a full return to wood.
Just purchased the FREAK bat for my son. Claims to move the fences closer. Shoud be the best hitter in the league with this bat.
Although for some, college baseball would be far more boring, it would make it far easier for everyone to gage a real top notch hitter!