should coaches call the pitches for the pitchers
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I think so, specially when pitchers are young.
And this is not only about knowledge is also an arm protection, controling the amount of breaking pitches.
And this is not only about knowledge is also an arm protection, controling the amount of breaking pitches.
I like our catchers to call the game except in certain situations we want something specific---how else do kids learn the game ?
I agree with TR. We started it almost 3 years ago and it's been a tremendous success. One of the positives has been the relationships between tha (1) the catchers on the team, how they see things between the 2 of them. (2) the continued interaction between pitcher and catcher as the game progresses. Many young pitchers are afraid to tell a coach that they don't have confidance in a certain pitch that day but they have no problem communicating that to their teammate. I just like when pitcher and catcher come off the field into the dugout and talk about how they pitched to a certain batter and how "they" got him out.
Coach Merc
Exactly my point-- that is "learning the game"
If we , as coaches do not have confidence in our players who will ?
Exactly my point-- that is "learning the game"
If we , as coaches do not have confidence in our players who will ?
This topic is one of those that seems to get recycled every few months or so.
To say that the only way for catchers to learn the game is by allowing them to call the pitches is just plain not right.
Of course they can learn the game by having a coach more knowledgeable than them call the pitches. If a person can only learn something when they are doing it and not by simply observing, it would be a slow learning process.
It’s also a lot easier on the pitchers when a better game is called and hopefully the coach can call a better game.
And what exactly are they learning how to call pitches for, to be a coach some day? The vast majority of at least major college teams also have a coach call pitches.
To say that the only way for catchers to learn the game is by allowing them to call the pitches is just plain not right.
Of course they can learn the game by having a coach more knowledgeable than them call the pitches. If a person can only learn something when they are doing it and not by simply observing, it would be a slow learning process.
It’s also a lot easier on the pitchers when a better game is called and hopefully the coach can call a better game.
And what exactly are they learning how to call pitches for, to be a coach some day? The vast majority of at least major college teams also have a coach call pitches.
NO!
The players need to call the game. The coaches need to teach the players about pitch strategy, pitch selection, how to read the batters, etc.
But the kids will not learn unless they do it themselves.
Fortunately, the HS coaches and select coaches my son has played do not call the pitches. {Most of the college teams I have seen do not have coaches calling the pitches.}
As a pitcher, he - in reality - calls the pitches (e.g., will readily shake off the catcher if the pitch he thinks appropriate is not called). The pitcher knows which of his pitches are working on a given day, and which he is struggling with. And he should remember hitters as well as the catcher does.
When coaching, I spent a fair amount of time teaching the players. But come gametime, they were on their own. We might talk about a pitch or two between innings. But they called them. I found they often made far gutsier calls than I would have in certain situations. Yet these gutsy calls nearly always succeeded.
And regardless of who calls the pitches, people often forget that the pitcher is not going to hit the spot every time (a significant percentage of pitches will not be as intended).
I have seen far more stupid pitch calling from coaches than I have ever seen from players.
The players need to call the game. The coaches need to teach the players about pitch strategy, pitch selection, how to read the batters, etc.
But the kids will not learn unless they do it themselves.
Fortunately, the HS coaches and select coaches my son has played do not call the pitches. {Most of the college teams I have seen do not have coaches calling the pitches.}
As a pitcher, he - in reality - calls the pitches (e.g., will readily shake off the catcher if the pitch he thinks appropriate is not called). The pitcher knows which of his pitches are working on a given day, and which he is struggling with. And he should remember hitters as well as the catcher does.
When coaching, I spent a fair amount of time teaching the players. But come gametime, they were on their own. We might talk about a pitch or two between innings. But they called them. I found they often made far gutsier calls than I would have in certain situations. Yet these gutsy calls nearly always succeeded.
And regardless of who calls the pitches, people often forget that the pitcher is not going to hit the spot every time (a significant percentage of pitches will not be as intended).
I have seen far more stupid pitch calling from coaches than I have ever seen from players.
For the Legion team that I coach, we carry three catchers. One plays, one charts (with the pitcher who is pitching the next day), and one calls the pitches....great way to get as many kids involved in the game and to get them communicating with each other.
quote:I have seen far more stupid pitch calling from coaches than I have ever seen from players.
Sounds like the kids should just coach themselves if they are smarter than the coaches?
Quote {Most of the college teams I have seen do not have coaches calling the pitches.}
Which colleges are you referring to?
I am a firm believer in the "hands on" practice...you can demonstrate till you are blue in the face but nothing is truly learned until you have a feel for the situation...also...it appears that if a coach was a former pitcher he seems to feel the need to call the pitches which ultimetly slows down a game...if the coach is a former catcher or position player they seem to be comfortable with the catcher calling the game and looking to them for assistance when the need arises...it appears to be a control issue...and SBK, my son plays college ball, and most of the games we attend the catcher is calling the game...as a nurse you could have told me numerous times how to insert a foley catheter but until I actually performed the procedure it meant nothing... 
There is no right or wrong answer.
It depends on:
1. The Coach
2. The Catcher
3. The Pitcher
4. Sometimes even The Hitter
You are likely to see it done either way at some of the top programs in the country.
It depends on:
1. The Coach
2. The Catcher
3. The Pitcher
4. Sometimes even The Hitter
You are likely to see it done either way at some of the top programs in the country.
CatcherMom - As a nurse, your analogy of the Foley is truly accurate! 
Our HS catcher calls our pitches. It seems to work for everyone!
The college games we have watched have been a mix - some coaches call and sometimes the catch calls.
Our HS catcher calls our pitches. It seems to work for everyone!
The college games we have watched have been a mix - some coaches call and sometimes the catch calls.
catchermom03, Great post, and you are 100% correct.I see many high school and college games, and all that happens when you have a coach who is a control freak is that you now have 3 1/2 - 4 hour games for no reason.
I would say that of all the teams that I see each year, about 85% have the coaches call the pitches. They also spend too much time giving needless signs to the hitters when on offense.
The sad thing that I am seeing is that many coaches want to win the game themselves, and won't let the players win or lose the game.
I would say that of all the teams that I see each year, about 85% have the coaches call the pitches. They also spend too much time giving needless signs to the hitters when on offense.
The sad thing that I am seeing is that many coaches want to win the game themselves, and won't let the players win or lose the game.
Let me add another thought
I am a firm believer in players trusting the coaches and their decisions--part of this trust comes with the catchers and pitchers running their game
Many of the catchers we get come from programs where the coach calls every pitch-- you have to see the catchers eyes light up when we tell them we allow the catchers to call the game. Catchers are the quarterbacks on the baseball field and they need to be in charge-- part of being in charge is calling the game.
Last year our catcher was catching a pitcher for the first time in a game and pitcher didnt shake off the catcher and threw a pitch other than what was called for--crossed the catcher up something fierce-- catcher called time out-- walked to the mound and alerted the pitcher, in no unsudden terms--I think they heard it in the next coounty-- to the fact that it better not happen again==if he didnt like the pitch called fall shake it off
Right there I knew we had a leader behind the plate.
As PG says a lot depends on the coach as to method used-- for us the catcher calling the pitches is our way--he learns the game--he learns how to set up hitters-- he learns how to lead-- he is in control of the game.
I am a firm believer in players trusting the coaches and their decisions--part of this trust comes with the catchers and pitchers running their game
Many of the catchers we get come from programs where the coach calls every pitch-- you have to see the catchers eyes light up when we tell them we allow the catchers to call the game. Catchers are the quarterbacks on the baseball field and they need to be in charge-- part of being in charge is calling the game.
Last year our catcher was catching a pitcher for the first time in a game and pitcher didnt shake off the catcher and threw a pitch other than what was called for--crossed the catcher up something fierce-- catcher called time out-- walked to the mound and alerted the pitcher, in no unsudden terms--I think they heard it in the next coounty-- to the fact that it better not happen again==if he didnt like the pitch called fall shake it off
Right there I knew we had a leader behind the plate.
As PG says a lot depends on the coach as to method used-- for us the catcher calling the pitches is our way--he learns the game--he learns how to set up hitters-- he learns how to lead-- he is in control of the game.
I can understand a coach in HS calling the pitches at the beginning of the season if he is breaking in an inexperienced catcher. However, halfway through the season this catcher should
have learned the routine of what his coach has been calling and should be able to take over.
I am amazed at the number of coaches that call all the pitches in DI, even at this late stage
of the college season. A starting catcher at the college level should have enough intelligence and experience to call as smart of a game as the coach would. And in my opinion should actually be able to a better job of it. After all, he's warmed the pitcher up in the bullpen before the game and before every inning. He knows what pitches the pitcher has command of that particular day( every day is different). He should know what the pitcher likes to throw and has more confidence in. And it doesen't take ALL DAY to get the sign back to the pitcher which
in turn helps to keep the fielders on their toes.
Hopefully this bench-calling will finally stop and allow these games to move along faster than
a snails' pace. There's no good reason for it!
BTW in Conference USA I haven't seen a coach that doesn't call all the pitches- even in blow-out games.
have learned the routine of what his coach has been calling and should be able to take over.
I am amazed at the number of coaches that call all the pitches in DI, even at this late stage
of the college season. A starting catcher at the college level should have enough intelligence and experience to call as smart of a game as the coach would. And in my opinion should actually be able to a better job of it. After all, he's warmed the pitcher up in the bullpen before the game and before every inning. He knows what pitches the pitcher has command of that particular day( every day is different). He should know what the pitcher likes to throw and has more confidence in. And it doesen't take ALL DAY to get the sign back to the pitcher which
in turn helps to keep the fielders on their toes.
Hopefully this bench-calling will finally stop and allow these games to move along faster than
a snails' pace. There's no good reason for it!
BTW in Conference USA I haven't seen a coach that doesn't call all the pitches- even in blow-out games.
Too many coaches call the pitches === why? Because in HS / College the focus is on winning! Plain and Simple, a college coach in particular is afraid to have his job determined by a kid (who he recruited by the way) call the pitches behind the dish.
If you truly prepare for a game with your catcher and your pitcher, then there is a strategy in place and if YOU have truly prepared your catcher, he understands and can execute that strategy. Obviously, in a big game, there are times to take control of a Pitch / Situation. But not 100% of every pitch thrown in a game.
I'm not a HS nor College coach whose job is on the line. However I do coach at the "elite" travel ball level. I like to "edumicate" my catchers and pitchers on what we/they are trying to accomplish out there and then let them execute that. A coach can call a certain pitch and for whatever reason, the pitcher is not executing it that day. They'll know exactly what "feels" good and also COMMIT to a pitch better if they are calling it. A WRONG PITCH THAT IS THROWN WITH COMMITMENT IS FAR BETTER THAN THE RIGHT PITCH THROWN WITH RESENTMENT. Between innings we'll talk about the good pitches or bad pitch selection. As they call a great pitch, I let them KNOW IT RIGHT then.
TEACH THE GAME AND LET THEM PLAY....
If you truly prepare for a game with your catcher and your pitcher, then there is a strategy in place and if YOU have truly prepared your catcher, he understands and can execute that strategy. Obviously, in a big game, there are times to take control of a Pitch / Situation. But not 100% of every pitch thrown in a game.
I'm not a HS nor College coach whose job is on the line. However I do coach at the "elite" travel ball level. I like to "edumicate" my catchers and pitchers on what we/they are trying to accomplish out there and then let them execute that. A coach can call a certain pitch and for whatever reason, the pitcher is not executing it that day. They'll know exactly what "feels" good and also COMMIT to a pitch better if they are calling it. A WRONG PITCH THAT IS THROWN WITH COMMITMENT IS FAR BETTER THAN THE RIGHT PITCH THROWN WITH RESENTMENT. Between innings we'll talk about the good pitches or bad pitch selection. As they call a great pitch, I let them KNOW IT RIGHT then.
TEACH THE GAME AND LET THEM PLAY....
I think something else that needs to be looked at is the experience of the catcher. I currently call pitches for our team. I am developing a sophomor catcher and we regularly discuss strategy. I call the pitches mostly to protect our pitchers. I turn the catcher loose numerous times throughout the season to let them develop, but many times I see young pitchers and catchers fall in love with throwing curveballs and not establishing the fastball and spotting the change-up. My personal goal is to teach them early on about strategy and not pitching in a set sequence and then be able to turn them loose when I see that they are ready. If a young catcher is more knowledgable about calling pitches than I am, then I am in the wrong business. But hopefully, through teaching we will achieve this ability throughout the season. Many times after a catcher has progressed, I will go over the scouting report with him and discuss the strategy for pitching each hitter and let him go to work. In my opinion this is not overcoaching but teaching and developing (if done correctly). This is not for everyone, but has worked well for our program.
16 up depends on the ability of the catcher, some are very smart played a lot of ball and really know the game. Others are not and have not.
I think if the coach knows his players, like he should, he'll know whether or not to call the pitches.
CV
I think if the coach knows his players, like he should, he'll know whether or not to call the pitches.
CV
hscoach
Agree 100%, that's my same point.
Agree 100%, that's my same point.
This is the first year that my son (a D-1 catcher) has called the games. All through high school and as a freshman and as a sophomore in college the coaches would control the game from the dugout. I don’t think it had anything to do with my son’s ability or inability to call a game but like bbscout suggest, the coaches’ just wanted to maintain control of that aspect of the game. With the catcher calling the games there is a marked difference in the game’s tempo. You can actually see the increased interaction between the pitchers and the catcher and feel that much desired “team concept” growing as the game progresses.
We had a coaching change this year and the new pitching coach and my son will analyze the batting order prior to the game and while our team is batting and discuss some basics on how to pitch the batting order the next half inning. While calling the game remains somewhat of a joint effort with the catcher and the pitching coach, (the catcher can always look over to the dugout for guidance) the added responsibility given to my son has made the games more enjoyable for him…and me too.
I recommend high school coaches ease their catchers into a role that allows them to call some of the games or at least part of some games. See what happens. It will force the catchers to begin a process of understanding hitters and pitchers.
Fungo
We had a coaching change this year and the new pitching coach and my son will analyze the batting order prior to the game and while our team is batting and discuss some basics on how to pitch the batting order the next half inning. While calling the game remains somewhat of a joint effort with the catcher and the pitching coach, (the catcher can always look over to the dugout for guidance) the added responsibility given to my son has made the games more enjoyable for him…and me too.
I recommend high school coaches ease their catchers into a role that allows them to call some of the games or at least part of some games. See what happens. It will force the catchers to begin a process of understanding hitters and pitchers.
Fungo
Fungo, my man. once again we are on the same page
Good post Fungo. My oldest son is a high school pitching coach and lets his catcher and pitchers call their own game. Before each game he will go over the way he wants that days starter to pitch to the team they are playing and then lets the kids do their thing. The are also dominating their league in every pitching category and winning their league also. He is fortunate that he has a head coach who trusts him and does not have a large ego.
From the time I started Little League right through my pro career, I never had a coach call pitches, and if they had, there would have been a fist fight. The next day in the paper under losing pitcher, they don't have the coaches name.
From the time I started Little League right through my pro career, I never had a coach call pitches, and if they had, there would have been a fist fight. The next day in the paper under losing pitcher, they don't have the coaches name.
DOUG
Amen !!!!!
Amen !!!!!