Should the reference be P5 or Top 50?

For the kids it is just a difference in a one year scholarship and a four year, and sometimes the facilities and perks.  We all know they can try to push you out but legally you can stay and take your money.  I would rather play KU than DBU in terms of who is a stronger team year after year.

I agree with you, P5 is shorthand for high-level ball.  It's more true in football that P5 represents the best teams.  In basketball it is less true.  In baseball it's not true at all.  Top 50 is a better descriptor for the top programs.

I would say basketball and baseball are more similar than you suggest while agreeing that football has the biggest difference between P5 and the rest.

Like basketball, mid and even lower D1 teams can get hot and beat P5 teams and make a run in the post season.  With that said, the post season is dominated year in and year out by P5 programs.

Non P5 schools in Omaha by year:

2021-1

2020-N/A

2019-0

2018-0

2017-1

2016-2 (C. Carolina won it)

2015-1

2014-1

2013-0

2012-2

2011-0

2010-0

So, over the past 10 years 8 non P5 teams went to Omaha while 72 P5 teams made the trip.  Is there overlap between mid major and P5 in baseball, absolutely.  Are there P5 conference teams that would be a doormat in a few mid major conferences, yep.  But to suggest that P5 doesn’t still dominate college baseball isn’t supported by the numbers.

I agree the top P5 teams are dominant, but there are a lot of P5 teams that aren't terribly competitive with the better non-P5 teams.

If that’s the measuring stick then throw football in the same bucket with baseball. There are plenty of P5 football teams that suck too.

In the past 10 years, there have only been 2 Big 10 teams in total make the College World Series.   It's more like the P4 in baseball.  No disrespect meant to Big 10 baseball just stating facts and replying to 22&25 post.

@22and25 posted:

I would say basketball and baseball are more similar than you suggest while agreeing that football has the biggest difference between P5 and the rest.

Like basketball, mid and even lower D1 teams can get hot and beat P5 teams and make a run in the post season.  With that said, the post season is dominated year in and year out by P5 programs.

Non P5 schools in Omaha by year:

2021-1

2020-N/A

2019-0

2018-0

2017-1

2016-2 (C. Carolina won it)

2015-1

2014-1

2013-0

2012-2

2011-0

2010-0

So, over the past 10 years 8 non P5 teams went to Omaha while 72 P5 teams made the trip.  Is there overlap between mid major and P5 in baseball, absolutely.  Are there P5 conference teams that would be a doormat in a few mid major conferences, yep.  But to suggest that P5 doesn’t still dominate college baseball isn’t supported by the numbers.

There are a lot of good teams that are ranked in most seasons who do not make the CWS. Taking the top eight as the means of drawing a conclusion on P5 versus top fifty is taking too narrow of a view. It doesn’t change there are a plenty of quality baseball programs outside P5 who are better.

@22and25 posted:

If that’s the measuring stick then throw football in the same bucket with baseball. There are plenty of P5 football teams that suck too.

But outside Boise State and one other you don’t see non P5’s in the top twenty-five.

If Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big 12 I would like to see Boise State show some balls and join. I don’t believe they would be 10-2 or better in the Big 12 even without TX and OK. They’re good enough to win any given game except maybe against five teams. But I don’t believe they can do it on a regular basis.

@RJM posted:

There are a lot of good teams that are ranked in most seasons who do not make the CWS. Taking the top eight as the means of drawing a conclusion on P5 versus top fifty is taking too narrow of a view. It doesn’t change there are a plenty of quality baseball programs outside P5 who are better.

Yes, there are a lot of good teams every year that don’t make the CWS but year after year the CWS field is predominantly P5 teams.  Ask any of those non P5 “good teams” in February what their goal for the season is and most, if not all, will say “get to Omaha”.  So what other measuring stick should be use for success?  Being good?  RPI? Polls?  Unlike football, baseball gives the non P5 teams a fighter’s chance to win a National Championship.  A few have done it, very few.  

In fact, I would argue that those “good non P5 teams” have an easier road than middle of the pack SEC teams.  Win your mid major and then get hot in the field of 64….much easier than trying to build a resume playing the top half of the SEC or ACC, etc….

Getting hot at the end of the season applies to P5’s as well. In 2016 Boston College came within one game of going to the CWS.

After 45 games they were 25-20. They were playing poorly in the ACC. They only had a winning record due to beating up on soft (relative to ACC play) New England non conference teams. When they lost 18-6 to Bryant I figured they were toast.,Then they went on a 10-2 tear to finish the regular season.

They had to play the ACC play in game and got smacked. I thought, “Welcome back to reality.” I figured the season was over. But, they got one of the final slots and ripped rough their region. They took Miami to three games in the Super Series.

What BC had going for them that year was three pitchers who got hot. Two of them are now in the majors.

From conversations with parents that late season run saved the coach’s job. He was close to getting fired. He hadn’t had a winning season in five years. He’s still there five years after 2016.

They call it the "Road to Omaha" for a reason. It's a very difficult and bumpy ride to get to there.

The only way a team can get to Omaha is by having depth in their rotation and enough really good hitters to cover for the injured.

Most mid D1 programs do not have that.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

In the past 10 years, there have only been 2 Big 10 teams in total make the College World Series.   It's more like the P4 in baseball.  No disrespect meant to Big 10 baseball just stating facts and replying to 22&25 post.

It's too cold for a lot of those Big 10 baseball teams. Teams not in warm weather states are really disadvantaged - even in the P5. They really need to push the season back a month:  https://www.baseballamerica.co...or-college-baseball/

P5 conferences are designated by football, not baseball.

Not really sure how most cold weather schools can actually be considered a P5 program in baseball, unless they have the facilities to practice indoors and money to travel south for weeks.

JMO

@TPM posted:

P5 conferences are designated by football, not baseball.

Not really sure how most cold weather schools can actually be considered a P5 program in baseball, unless they have the facilities to practice indoors and money to travel south for weeks.

JMO

And to add, maintain a decent RPI.

I don't think you can push the season back a month and play the same number of games.  I might would have agreed until this year when son's team went to Omaha.  It is already almost the entire month of June if you make it to the championship so you really do not want it pushed back to the end of July.  You would not have the same teams because guys who got drafted would be leaving for pro ball.  I know it is a disadvantage for baseball/softball and other spring sports but so is the start of football in the south with it being 100 degrees for pre-season practice and in some cases the first week or so of season.  It all equals out in the end.

@TPM posted:

P5 conferences are designated by football, not baseball.

Not really sure how most cold weather schools can actually be considered a P5 program in baseball, unless they have the facilities to practice indoors and money to travel south for weeks.

JMO

They can and do, have been for years.

@old_school posted:

They can and do, have been for years.

Not sure what you mean by this.  Big 10 is in no way a top 5 conference in baseball.

@Smitty28 posted:

Not sure what you mean by this.  Big 10 is in no way a top 5 conference in baseball.

The comment was

"Not really sure how most cold weather schools can actually be considered a P5 program in baseball, unless they have the facilities to practice indoors and money to travel south for weeks." I simply said they do and have been for years.

Virtually every school in cold weather areas have indoor facilities and I mean legit large area, they travel south every weekend from mid February - to mid march, many have turf for early season. I never presented that the Big10 is special - they simply have the facilities, the money, the budgets to do all of these things and they aren't alone.

I was just wondering why people refer to P5 football school's also as P5 baseball school's. What I meant was because of facilities, is that why?

They should, if they decide to ever do it, take all cold weather programs into considerations, not just the ones with facilities or big football programs.

Many big program schools do not travel very far south start of season.

Is that true old_school? If so please correct me.

I was referring to Francis7's comment about starting later.

I apologize for any confusion.

Big 10 gives 4-year scholarships (for what that's worth), like the other P5s, even in baseball.  And yes, most B10 schools have the money to travel south a lot.  I assume Wisconsin dropped baseball because they didn't want to pay for that.

Taking Covid into consideration I went back at a quick glance to 2019. 

Some did and some didn't. I don't consider Ohio or NC or Washington south.

All non conference games are scheduled around conference, I believe a year in advance.

You snooze you lose. I like how coaches put together a group of programs to play tournaments.

@TPM posted:

OLD_SCHOOL just loves to jump on whatever I say.

I was just wondering why people refer to P5 football school's also as P5 baseball school's. What I meant was because of facilities, is that why?

They should, if they decide to ever do it, take all cold weather programs into considerations, not just the ones with facilities or big football programs.

Many big program schools do not travel very far south start of season.

Is that true old_school? If so please correct me.

I was referring to Francis7's comment about starting later.

I apologize for any confusion.

I don't understand the disagree and more importantly I don't care. We will just agree that there are no indoor facilities damn near the size of a ball field, we will agree that teams from the north don't travel south for 3 or 4 or 5 weekends plus spring break to get 20 or more games in by the middle march, we will just agree cold weather schools stay home until the snow melts and wait for better times...there ya go.

Facts are a pesky damn thing.

@anotherparent posted:

Big 10 gives 4-year scholarships (for what that's worth), like the other P5s, even in baseball.  And yes, most B10 schools have the money to travel south a lot.  I assume Wisconsin dropped baseball because they didn't want to pay for that.

stop, we have agreed. Reality has no place in the conversation.

I would disagree on the no indoor facilities as big as a baseball field.  The SEC has several indoor facilities that are used for baseball training that are near to as big as a baseball field.  Most of them use the indoor football facilities to workout in and some of them you could play baseball in.

P5 means the Big 5 conferences and I don't see it as just football.  These are the biggest across the board.  it does not mean that all the teams in those conferences are good in every sport.  Some are horrible in football but good in baseball or basketball and vice versa.