Show Me The Rule

I have read many variations of "baseball rules" and have never come across that one. My guess is that this was called at a game. As a coach, I have picked up the ball on a wet day and dried it off to hand to my pitcher. Never has anything been said about picking up the ball.

Sounds like one of two things, either he did more than pick the ball up, took warmups, or you found an umpire trying to show he knew the rules and really didn't.

I tried telling the umpire that it was nowhere in the MLB rule book. This was was for a 16u tournament. I asked the tournament director if they played by MLB rules and he said yes. The only exception was the courtesy runners for the pitcher and catcher. The kid who picked up the ball never stepped on the rubber or threw to the catcher.
I beleive this is one of those imaginary rules like a tie goes to the runner.

I have actually had this called on me in a 13U club tournament. I appealed the game (betting the $100) and won. As appeals are ruled on "immediately", the umpire held a grudge. I don't think he called another strike for our pitchers the rest of the game...

There are many urban baseball legends. "The hand is part of the bat", "Interference has to be intentional", "Any fly ball in the infield under the appropriate circumstance is an infield fly rule", "Fielder didn't touch it, so it's not an error", "Fielder touched it so it must be an error", etc.

In lower club levels, I've seen this one called several times, usually on an infielder who picks up the ball around the mound, waits for the pitcher to come out, hands him the ball, says a few words of encouragement, slaps him on the butt, runs to his position only to find that he's now the pitcher.

It doesn't pass the common sense test. Why require a player not properly warmed up to take a position that could result in injury? Stupid.

This what he was enforcing:
3.08
(a) If no announcement of a substitution is made, the substitute shall be considered as
having entered the game when—
(1) If a pitcher, he takes his place on the pitcher’s plate;
(2) If a batter, he takes his place in the batter’s box;
(3) If a fielder, he reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder he has
replaced, and play commences;
(4) If a runner, he takes the place of the runner he has replaced.

Well here's where it comes from.
ORB
Rule 3.08
(a) If no announcement of a substitution is made, the substitute shall be considered as
having entered the game when—
(1) If a pitcher, he takes his place on the pitcher’s plate;

And we all know, a new pitcher must pitch.

Would I ever call it for a player picking up the ball and standing on the rubber, no.

Would I enforce it if the player took the mound and made a warm up pitch, I think so.

I totally agree if the player picks up the ball and throws a warm up pitch or even toes the rubber or shows any action like "I'm pitching now".

But when they don't even get on the dirt of the mound? That's what happened to me. The ball was up the first base line and the first baseman picked it up. He walked toward the mound and handed the ball to the pitcher and said, "Go get 'em". They met between first and the mound.

The side note was that my first baseman had already thrown his maximum allowed innings for the tournament, so if he'd become the pitcher, I'd have forfeited the game.

In honor of the just now finished LLWS, let's note that the Little League rule requires a warmup throw:
3.08 --
(a) If no announcement of a substitution is made, the substitute shall be considered to have entered the
game when -
(1) if a pitcher, the substitute takes position on the pitcher's plate and throws one warm-up pitch to the
catcher;

The RIM suggests that any warm up pitch-- even to a non-catcher behind the plate--would trigger becoming the new pitcher.

quote:

But when they don't even get on the dirt of the mound? That's what happened to me. The ball was up the first base line and the first baseman picked it up. He walked toward the mound and handed the ball to the pitcher and said, "Go get 'em". They met between first and the mound..

Sometimes the biggest obstacle for umpires are the actions of some other umpires....This is a prime example of an untrained umpire accepting a mythic interpretation of a rule.....and then inflicting it upon the game...

This is what makes trained umpires and certainly umpire trainers like MST and Myself crazy.....

quote:

Sometimes the biggest obstacle for umpires are the actions of some other umpires....This is a prime example of an untrained umpire accepting a mythic interpretation of a rule.....and then inflicting it upon the game...

What makes it worse is when the other umpire(s) does not overrule this call and now they both look like they don't know what the rule is. It is pretty clear it has to be some intent ot pitch, i.e on the rubber, throw a warmup pitch, for this to be called, and not just the act of an infielder picking it up and handing it to the pitcher.

One umpire cannot overrule another. It is against the rules.

quote:

One umpire cannot overrule another. It is against the rules.

I did not suggest one umpire overule. I am saying they could get together and confirm the rule interpretation and get it right before putting the ball in play.

quote:

Originally posted by catcher15:
One umpire cannot overrule another. It is against the rules.

\

The non-calling umpire gives the calling umpire additional information. The calling umpire may then decide to change his call.

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:

quote:

One umpire cannot overrule another. It is against the rules.

I did not suggest one umpire overule. I am saying they could get together and confirm the rule interpretation and get it right before putting the ball in play.

otown, your intent may have been different, but you did say an ump should overrule the other.

Here's your comment "What makes it worse is when the other umpire(s) does not overrule this call.."

Overruling is one thing, getting together to discuss is another....

quote:

Reply

quote:

otown, your intent may have been different, but you did say an ump should overrule the other.

Here's your comment "What makes it worse is when the other umpire(s) does not overrule this call.."

Overruling is one thing, getting together to discuss is another....

Semantics ok .....if I am working with a guy who could make this poor of a call...and he didn't over-turn it after we got together I would report him to the association to maybe start working him at 10-under and I certainly would never work with him again.....so maybne that does qualify as an overule?

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:

Semantics ok .....if I am working with a guy who could make this poor of a call...and he didn't over-turn it after we got together I would report him to the association to maybe start working him at 10-under and I certainly would never work with him again.....so maybne that does qualify as an overule?

1 misapplied rule and you won't work with him again? Not to mention, at the time, who says you are right? It may be that he is correct and you aren't. Since he didn't see things your way, you won't work with him again?

If that is your attitude about a misapplied rule, then you won't be working with too many for more than 1 or 2 sets of games. We ALL misapply a rule especially if something strange occurs. And, we ALL have been in the boat where we just KNOW what the rule is.

None of us jump out of the box knowing everything about the rules. And, none of us will get every rule correct in every game. Not going to happen, I don't care who you are. Even the MLB umpires mess them up and that is their everyday job.

Not a good attitude to walk on any field with. Maybe it isn't the other umpire who needs to think about starting at 10U games.

quote:

whoever picks up the game ball off the mound while going out for defense must be the pitcher?

Hey Mr. Umpire....have you lost sight of the orignal post? This is an easy call and if the other umpire(s) don't step and an get it right then that is a bigger problem. In this case, (stay on the original post), I am right.

"Even the MLB umpires mess them up and that is their everyday job."

To bring in MLB umpires into this league ball post is ridiculous. Don't try to take the conversation somewhere not related to the original post.

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:

quote:

whoever picks up the game ball off the mound while going out for defense must be the pitcher?

Hey Mr. Umpire....have you lost sight of the orignal post? This is an easy call and if the other umpire(s) don't step and an get it right then that is a bigger problem. In this case, (stay on the original post), I am right.

"Even the MLB umpires mess them up and that is their everyday job."

To bring in MLB umpires into this league ball post is ridiculous. Don't try to take the conversation somewhere not related to the original post.

You are right in one little instance. Also, you had time (if you did or not, I don't care) to go look at a rule book to verify if you are right. On the field, that isn't going to happen.

Bringing in the MLB part is in direct response to how you think every umpire should no mess up a rule call after YOU tell them what the correct ruling is by your own interp.

You started where this went. I just picked up on it.

quote:

you had time (if you did or not, I don't care) to go look at a rule book to verify if you are right. On the field, that isn't going to happen.

I'll end the string by reverting back to what Pia said in an earlier post.

quote:

Sometimes the biggest obstacle for umpires are the actions of some other umpires....This is a prime example of an untrained umpire accepting a mythic interpretation of a rule.....and then inflicting it upon the game...

This is what makes trained umpires and certainly umpire trainers like MST and Myself crazy.....

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:

quote:

you had time (if you did or not, I don't care) to go look at a rule book to verify if you are right. On the field, that isn't going to happen.

I'll end the string by reverting back to what Pia said in an earlier post.

quote:

Sometimes the biggest obstacle for umpires are the actions of some other umpires....This is a prime example of an untrained umpire accepting a mythic interpretation of a rule.....and then inflicting it upon the game...

This is what makes trained umpires and certainly umpire trainers like MST and Myself crazy.....

That has absolutely nothing to do with your statement of not working with the umpire again b/c he misapplied 1 rule.

And, it doesn't matter if the umpire was trained or not. Even the best trained ones screw up simple rules. But, you talk about condemning any umpire who misapplies a rule (simple or not) b/c they didn't listen to you and what you think the ruling should be.

This forum is riddled with trained umpires messing up a ruling and having it pointed out to them. And, I know it has happened to me here and on other forums. But, to condemn b/c they didn't listen to you is wrong at its best. Should think about being a little bit more open-minded before making blanket statements.

I agree this should be a simple thing that shouldn't get screwed up but it happens. I don't believe the OP mentions whether he had a partner to discuss it with. It is very possible that it is an untrained or undertrained umpire working solo. The fact remains that one mistake shouldn't **** him for life. I was having a discussion the other day about balks and a couple of somewhat knowledable guys brought up two myths, it's not a balk because he does something everytime and it is a balk if he tries to deceive the runner. These are guys that should know better, I corrected them but it doesn't mean I am throwing them on the idiot pile.