SHOWCASE/ INVITE Tournament Summer 2011 Observations

quote:

some teams are nothing more then a particular College/University Farm Team

Huh?

I know that there are times when the philosophy of a particular travel team jibes with the philosophy of a particular college's coaches. And that might lead to that school making multiple offers to guys off one team -- because the team may have recruited the types of players they're looking for and then had them play by their shared philosophy.

BUT, I've never seen more than a couple go to any one place off any one team. By the time you consider everyone's ability levels, preferences, finances, academics, etc., it's just never the case that one place fits everyone.

Also, as to this:

"I have overheard conversations of College Coaches with some Showcase/ Elite Teams about polished players vs RAW and I was dumbstruck (basically kid doesn’t have the money or resources to get better instruction so took this kid who has the $$$$)."

This can go either way, depending on what the college is looking for.

Some look for kids who are ready to contribute, and maybe who can handle 75% (or more) of a 50k+ stickerr price. Don't forget that part. It does no good to recruit a kid who cannot pay to attend the school, unless the coach feels he can definitely help the kid get financial aid sufficient to close the gap.

Other coaches like very much to get the "raw" kid. Often this kid ends up as the "steal" -- the highly talented kid you land for 25% and then develop into a stud over the course of his collegiate career. A lot of coaches have confidence in their ability to bring talent to its full potential and love to fill out their roster with "bargain buys".

Midlo,
Just my observation, nothing to be implied just stating what I have seen and heard first hand. If a particular Showcase Team/Elite team coach went to University ABC and played, and X numbers (4 +) of players commit to ABC I see it as a matter of simplistic approach as a Farm Team. I am well aware of the cost to attend college you have taken my observation to mean that those who can not afford high $$$ schools that are RAW players should look somewhere else and not aspire to reach lofter goals and opportunities and for a Showcase/Elite team Coach to push a player a down for reasons beyond the player's control is not right. The resources that one's family has at its disposal does play a significant role in the recruitment and exposure of a player. I have witnessed first hand how baseball is becoming more ELITIST and no longer if you have the RAW talent and more of you have the POLISH. I have seen very few RAW players recruited heavily by schools this summer. Once again just my observations, from where you sit you see it differently. I paid my share to go to school and didn't have the luxury of having Mom and Pop foot the bill for everything.

@Red, I think the majority of your points are spot on.

I'm not sure I understand the OP's point on the Raw vs. Polished issue. Or rather, I think I understand it, but I wonder why he's surprised by his observations.

Isn't it sort of self evident that a coach, especially a coach at a school near the top of the food chain, would prefer polished recruits over raw ones? It's a much safer bet to say, "I can put 25 pounds of muscle on this kid who is already an advanced pitcher, and he'll be a solid player for me" than to speculate on whether he can teach a physical freak how to pitch.

Coaches can afford to take an occasional gamble on raw "projects," but they need a steady supply of low-risk polished "prospects" to sustain their success. They might place an occasional small wager on a kid with the potential to have a real high ceiling, but they need consistency and predictability through most of their recruiting class. Besides, it's not like none of the polished kids bring any physical attributes to the table.

The schools that can't compete for enough high-quality polished prospects are more likely to have to or be willing to take chances on raw players.

I speak with limited experience as the dad of a recent h.s. grad who was pretty much the textbook definition of raw--only played about two summers of real travel ball, spent his fall seasons conditioning for his winter sport, limited his baseball mostly to spring & summer, but was very successful in his other sport and is a physical beast. Even a father's eye could tell he lacked the polish of his summer baseball teammates.

Our experience was about what you'd expect for a raw player. Schools that can compete successfully for polished prospects simply were not interested. A lot of other schools looked at him a bunch of times without ever moving from curious to interested. However, he did get interest from schools that were in a re-building phase, were struggling to be competitive in their conferences, or had a reputation for taking under-the-radar guys.

I really don't know how raw players could expect anything else. He made choices that put him in that situation, and the consequences of those choices seem, in retrospect, to have been predictable.

I also don't think it's as much of a money issue as suggested. Lots of the better travel programs quietly work to remove the money obstacle for deserving players.

Swampboy nailed it.

I also think (most) college coaches don't get all the polished recruits they want, and they (mostly)end up with a bunch of "less than polished" players. Sometimes these "less than polished" players will become polished and others will remain "less than polished". My son and I recently talked about this very point. He said, "Dad there are only 10 players in a game and 25 guys sitting on the bench. It is pretty easy to figure out." In other words...duh Dad.

Also, if everybody is polished and not playing, then you have many transfers, many incoming freshmen, and many red shirts. It is the price of doing business.

Raider,
Hey fella, i've got room for a couple of those RAW 6.5/6.6 - 3.8-4.1 guys right now ! I can promise you they will get a "great look" from numerous college programs.

You can be as polished as you want to be but at 5'9" and 170 with slightly above average speed and arm you are basically nowhere. These kids are a dime a dozen.

You can't teach 6'3" and there is no substitute for speed.

There's a ton of these guys playing football or something else because they can't hit the curve.

If the definition of "raw" is an unpolished player with outstanding physical tools and size, I would say most top colleges would put their priorities in the following order.

1. Polished player with physical tools and size.

2. Polished players with physical tools and without size.

3. Unpolished players (raw) with physical tools and size.

4. Unpolished players (raw) with physical tools and without size.

5. Polished players without physical tools

6. Raw players without physical tools (If there is such a thing) actually this group would not be on the list.

Then add academic history and ability into each of the above. Even the #1s have to be able to qualify. And outstanding students can move up a notch.

Note: The better the tools, the less important "polish" is. If college recruiters only cared about polish they would have no need for radar guns or stop watches.