cpsfan, I appreciate you clearing that up. Unfortunately, that is what happens when you are blatently promoting your own situation to the point Mom has. People begin to read in everything that you do as if you are scheming to get your kid an advantage. I'm glad to hear that that is not the case in this instance.
CPLZ
great thought !!!
we talk with the parents before we begin playing and then we work with the kids in terms of stretching things out innings wise if we feel they can do it---after we get get going it us and the kids
great thought !!!
we talk with the parents before we begin playing and then we work with the kids in terms of stretching things out innings wise if we feel they can do it---after we get get going it us and the kids
IMHO CC Sabbathia was a fool to pitch so many times in that period of time for The Brewers as noted above. But he has made millions already and will make many more in the future. Also, I couldn't help but notice that he wasn't very good at the end.
Overpitching doesn't always show up in the short term. It's the long term that you have to concern yourself with, especially for kids who hope to pitch a lot longer and who are not physcially mature.
Why wouldn't you take the conservative route? If a kid needs to throw more maybe in the pen with a coach watching for mechanical breakdown.....
Overpitching doesn't always show up in the short term. It's the long term that you have to concern yourself with, especially for kids who hope to pitch a lot longer and who are not physcially mature.
Why wouldn't you take the conservative route? If a kid needs to throw more maybe in the pen with a coach watching for mechanical breakdown.....
FBD,
You aren't alone in that assessment of Sabathia.
In the book, Preventative and Rehabilitative Exercises for the Shoulder and Elbow, published by ASMI and Andrews et.al, they recognize the competitiveness of the athlete. They talk about restraint and channeling that competitive spirit and not allowing the athlete to try and progress to quickly through rehab.
The same is true of HS athletes. We, the parents, are solely responsible for their well being. We need to be pro active in recognizing when restraint is called for.
You aren't alone in that assessment of Sabathia.
In the book, Preventative and Rehabilitative Exercises for the Shoulder and Elbow, published by ASMI and Andrews et.al, they recognize the competitiveness of the athlete. They talk about restraint and channeling that competitive spirit and not allowing the athlete to try and progress to quickly through rehab.
The same is true of HS athletes. We, the parents, are solely responsible for their well being. We need to be pro active in recognizing when restraint is called for.
CPLZ,
so your saying that you have a different pitch count for your son than the coach would have? Come on, these coaches aren't putting kids at risk. In this situation we are talking about the parent and coach was fine with how the kid pitched and the rest he got, it's you other third party observers who said he needed more rest.
You know there's a ton of people out there that say there's no more good arm's in American baseball players and the reason they give is because kids, parents, coaches are so worried about injury that any soreness in a kids arm they stop throwing. The Dominicans and Japanese throw through pain and constantly throw, throw, throw because after all that's how you get better arm strength. But if you pull up caution every time because your scared of injury you won't get too far. I'd be most of these injuries are because of a lack of mechanics rather than throwing too much. If you have the proper mechanics you should be able to throw more often. And finally, parents should not be involved with what the coaches are doing. I doubt the Army coach where your son is at listens to your reasoning and coaching strategies.
so your saying that you have a different pitch count for your son than the coach would have? Come on, these coaches aren't putting kids at risk. In this situation we are talking about the parent and coach was fine with how the kid pitched and the rest he got, it's you other third party observers who said he needed more rest.
You know there's a ton of people out there that say there's no more good arm's in American baseball players and the reason they give is because kids, parents, coaches are so worried about injury that any soreness in a kids arm they stop throwing. The Dominicans and Japanese throw through pain and constantly throw, throw, throw because after all that's how you get better arm strength. But if you pull up caution every time because your scared of injury you won't get too far. I'd be most of these injuries are because of a lack of mechanics rather than throwing too much. If you have the proper mechanics you should be able to throw more often. And finally, parents should not be involved with what the coaches are doing. I doubt the Army coach where your son is at listens to your reasoning and coaching strategies.
You have got to be kidding!
quote:Originally posted by Nails:
CPLZ,
so your saying that you have a different pitch count for your son than the coach would have? Come on, these coaches aren't putting kids at risk...
And finally, parents should not be involved with what the coaches are doing.
Not all HS coaches are well versed in what constitutes an appropriate pitch count. There were times freshmen and sophomore coaches were throwing kids 120+ pitches in April. It took a couple sets of parents over the course of a couple years to educate the coaches. It worked as the coaches eventually backed off the high numbers. They now know that a kid throwing 120+ pitches in early April and developing soreness does no good for the team come the middle of May.
quote:Originally posted by Play Ball:
You have got to be kidding!
PB, you beat me to it. I tried to be a little more subtle.
Playball,
What side of the fence are you on here? In one thread I said there's a ton of HS coaches that don't know what they are doing and aren't qualified to be coaches. You killed me on there for that comment, then I say that a parent shouldn't question a HS coach, they should trust his judgement because he isn't trying to put the kid at risk and you tell me I must be kidding. Looks like ultimately you do agree with me then that there's alot of HS coaches that aren't too versed in the knowledge of baseball or helping kids get better.
Pitch counts are subjective, parents interferring with the coach is meant for little league. I have said many times, if your one of those parents live it up because no college coach will listen to your suggestions or complaints. If you don't know the situation which started this conversation you shouldn't talk about if a kid pitched too much or had enough rest, that's my point.
What side of the fence are you on here? In one thread I said there's a ton of HS coaches that don't know what they are doing and aren't qualified to be coaches. You killed me on there for that comment, then I say that a parent shouldn't question a HS coach, they should trust his judgement because he isn't trying to put the kid at risk and you tell me I must be kidding. Looks like ultimately you do agree with me then that there's alot of HS coaches that aren't too versed in the knowledge of baseball or helping kids get better.
Pitch counts are subjective, parents interferring with the coach is meant for little league. I have said many times, if your one of those parents live it up because no college coach will listen to your suggestions or complaints. If you don't know the situation which started this conversation you shouldn't talk about if a kid pitched too much or had enough rest, that's my point.
IF it took a set of parents to educate lower level HS coaches on how to coach and the nuances of the game you should be very upset at the school your son is at. Why is that coach coaching and why isn't the Varsity coach instructing the lower level coaches on what's appropriate and what their philosophies are. Just to hear parents having a say is crazy to me. Imagine that happening in college, ha.
quote:Originally posted by Nails:
I doubt the Army coach where your son is at listens to your reasoning and coaching strategies.
Nails,
I'll bring the thimble, and you can put all the knowledge you have about Army Baseball in it and there'll still be room for a thumb.
Reading is a skill, I said HS athletes.
Nails - you have added your own twist to whatever you think I have said or what I mean. We support the coaches we have had contact with and they have supported our son and his arm.
Nails, remind me to make sure none of our kids every play ball for you. You know more than any experts including Dr. Andrews and so, you're a dangerous person to be in control of any pitcher. Of course that one kid that requires surgery will be able to be rationalized away somehow. I haven't coached much and only in about 600+ wins as either an assistant or head coach but I wouldn't risk any kids arm for any of them. I've been a part of a coaching staff on 3 different occasions where we had to make a choice for a state title. Thank God we never hurt a kid nor put a kid in that situation but you're the expert.
Nails, when did you get your medical degree?
Trust the coach, not for this guy. My son played HS ball for a coach who told him and the parents NOT to take our boys to a doctor when ailing, because it will automatically mean 6 weeks. Instead, go see the trainer, get some ice and stim and all will be well. That's fine and dandy except when there is an injury and a player tries to pitch or throw threw it. Big mistake IMO.
When my son got back on the bump after his 1 year rehab it was Dr. Andrews who told us what his pitch count should be, how it should progress, and it was me who told the coach not to exceed that limit. From that point on I was never without a pitch counter when at a game.
Now in college, I doubt I'll say more than "hello" to his coach between now and graduation.
Trust the coach, not for this guy. My son played HS ball for a coach who told him and the parents NOT to take our boys to a doctor when ailing, because it will automatically mean 6 weeks. Instead, go see the trainer, get some ice and stim and all will be well. That's fine and dandy except when there is an injury and a player tries to pitch or throw threw it. Big mistake IMO.
When my son got back on the bump after his 1 year rehab it was Dr. Andrews who told us what his pitch count should be, how it should progress, and it was me who told the coach not to exceed that limit. From that point on I was never without a pitch counter when at a game.
Now in college, I doubt I'll say more than "hello" to his coach between now and graduation.
quote:Originally posted by itsrosy:
Nails, when did you get your medical degree?
Trust the coach, not for this guy. My son played HS ball for a coach who told him and the parents NOT to take our boys to a doctor when ailing, because it will automatically mean 6 weeks. Instead, go see the trainer and he can fix anything. Not in my house.
When my son got back on the bump after his 1 year rehab it was Dr. Andrews who told us what his pitch count should be, how it should progress, and it was me who told the coach not to exceed that limit. From that point on I was never without a pitch counter when at a game.
Now in college, I doubt I'll say more than "hello" to his coach between now and graduation.
itsrosy, it is your story or your son's fate that has motivated me, more than any other to stay in this argument on pitch counts. You've been there. Of course you're probably no expert since ... Every pitcher that took the mound for me knew exactly what his pitch count was. He knew exactly my feelings about doubling up curves, the number of breaking pitches, the necessity for the FB and the Change and how fast they'd come out if I sensed any change in mechanics. Their parents also knew. I made it clear to them that I didn't have to win. I love their sons! Of course many of them went on to have some outstanding HS careers and some fantastic college years. I've also been fortunate to be associated with some that threw in the bigs and one is still there. NOT AN EXPERT by any means.
Itsrosy, thanks for giving your input. I know it is very hard for you knowing what is being presented here in lieu of what your son and family went through. Of course, you and I have been members here long enough to know that we have several members who's sons also suffered the same fate.
I'm never for putting kids at risk. Should the parents be concerned, sure. But I don't think it would be right to interfere or over ride a HS coach, they are after all supposed to be qualified in what they are doing.
CPLZ,
I think I know a little bit about baseball, Army specifically, no. But I do know some of the recreuts they signed. Is your son getting innings for them this year, if he is good luck to him.
CPLZ,
I think I know a little bit about baseball, Army specifically, no. But I do know some of the recreuts they signed. Is your son getting innings for them this year, if he is good luck to him.