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L LOW337100+ posts
Coming off of the "Key To Velocity" forum.....

What are some ideas for workloads between starts......

Extreme specifics are not entirely nescesary for this discussion just general Ideas....(i.e. Conditioning = either sprint or distance work, not interested in specific distances as each individual will vary)

So here we go.....
Pitcher just threw 7 innings (110 pitches) on Monday night....Next start in Saturday.....

Tue.....?
Wed.....?
Thur....?
Fri.....?
Sat....Game

I prefer this (which is adjustable depending on pitchers thoughts and suggestions):

Tue....Some sort of weight/core work, 25-30 min run, stretch it out or throw long to tolerance, prefer to at least play catch if too sore to throw long moderately or completely. (Note: Weight work does include rotator cuff work)

Wed....Throw a side (35-50 pitches 100% effort or to pitcher's comfort, 10 min of sprint work, core work if desired) NOTE: A "side" also means bullpen (i.e. throwing downhill to a catcher).

Thur...Flat ground work w/ emphasis on something (CB, CH, Balance, Line or anything else we feel needs work), 10 min sprint work. Core work.

Fri....Pitchers day to do as he sees fit. Light running 10 90 ft sprints (run up, walk back)

Sat.....Game (at least 6 w/ a lead I hope....LOL)

** I also feel that working on foot work on picks should be done at least once between starts
** We should also have PFP w/ infielders at least once a week as a team.
** Each individual is different and if they want to modify the work between starts, then we will discuss the changes and come up w/ something we feel will work for him

This is just a generic outline but maybe it can stir some thought that can perhaps benefit someone. The way I like may differ from yours. Some may vary quite a bit, some very little.


And pitching every fifth day makes you appreciate how the High School Coaches have to find time for their pitchers to get the desired work they need to be ready to compete on game days and possibly play other positions for their team.

Basically a Div-I College/Univ's top three starters may only start on the weekends (that's six days rest, pitching on the seventh.....the predicament they face is that some respond to light work in a game or intrasquad during mid week differently.

Just throwing it out there......What kind of success has everyone else had....

ADDITION: The above routine is widely used in professional baseball w/ the five man rotation (w/ variations obviously). When to throw a side is debateable and differs from pitcher to pitcher. The big question to answer when pitching every fifth day is when to throw the side. I guess you must pick your poison. Do you want two complete or one complete day(s) off prior to your next start. Most choose to throw the side on the second day of rest so that will have two complete prior to the next start. Big adjustment for the HS/College starting pitchers to make in pro ball - the shorter rest between starts. They get used to it.....
Last edited {1}
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B Bustamove100+ posts
quote:
Thur...Flat ground work w/ emphasis on something (CB, CH, Balance, Line or anything else we feel needs work), 10 min sprint work. Core work.


If you're going to do flat ground work you might as well do it off the mound. Flat ground won't serve much improvement since you don't pitch on flat ground.

quote:
Fri....Pitchers day to do as he sees fit. 10 90 ft sprints (run up, walk back)


I would have Friday as a rest day. Because you want to be fully rested for the game. Also you should do some mental exercises throughout the week because mental is just as important as physical. Maybe visionalize how you want that game to turn out. Also think about you're goals for that game.

Hope this helps.
C ccbsball1210+ posts
i think your preperation for the next start, starts right after your previous start

you need to run or do cardio the night after you pitch, this prevents a lot of lactic acid build up on your shoulder

i saw on tues. you should do weight work incoporating rotar cuff work, and not throw at all...incoporating sprints and core work

wed...throw not 100% but just toss stretching your arm out to 120-150 yard max along with sprints and core work

thurs....no flat ground work, you gain nothing from it, do what you need on the the mound, throw a bullpen, 20 pitches rest and then another 20 pitches

fri...i personally would just run half a mile and just stretch, taking it easy and working on your mental preperation for tomorrows start

the mental aspect is very important, thinking about what approach your going to take to the mound, thinking about what players you are facing and how your going to throw to them, etc.
L LOW337100+ posts
Very nice ccbsball....but look back on my day after start....stretch it out means throw long moderately...or I said to throw long....but at least play catch....I absolutely have no problem w/ running after start...but what will you do when you are in college and starting on a Wed and you just finished 7pm game on the road and you have a 3 hr bus ride back home...and you threw a CG....If the team will wait...heck yea, do it....

You see some people are not as resilient as others....take a Brett Saberhagen type...thin smallish but throws hard (into the 90's)..he may be sore as heck the next day and may not be able to throw at all.....Or look at a Lee Smith type body which is large and slightly thick...throws hard as well (into 90's), his body may handle the stress from throwing better....It's something I leave up them...but would desire them to throw everyday if possible....
Last edited by LOW337
L LOW337100+ posts
And IMO....I have seen great benefits from flat ground work.....Some guys like it more than others....

Here is the question I have....and I feel strongly about flat ground work when done correctly.....

If you can't throw the ball where you want when you want (I'm talking 8 of 10 pitches w/ all pitches) on flat ground at 45 - 50 ft....then how do you expect to do the same from 60 ft 6 in downhill. Are they different?....well sure they are. But so is hitting off a tee.

It is extremely physically demanding to throw downhill in a game (and that is if the slope is an inch a foot, most HS & college slopes are steeper which means more stress). You simply cannot throw downhill everyday in between starts and be ready to compete. Flat ground work in my eyes is just developing a skill less stressfully. And that skill is throwing the ball where you want when you want (command).

Do you need to throw downhill between starts....Absolutely....if throwing (pitching/starting) every fifth day my experience is we do it on the second day of rest so that I may have two complete days off before my next start....some prefer to throw their side (bullpen, downhill) on the third day w/ one day off before the next start......

I think you guys got confused,...that is my fault.....when I say throw a side...I mean a bullpen session downhill (35-50 pitches at 100% or to preference)
Last edited by LOW337
L LOW337100+ posts
The progression w/ throwing IMO....

1. Playing catch you should be able to hit your partners glove 8 out 10 times. When you can do this you have pretty good feel.

2. Flat Ground work done at 45 - 50 ft from wind-up and set using all pitches. You should be able to hit glove 8 out of 10 times.

3. Side (Bullpen), from wind-up and set you should be able to hit glove 8 out of 10 times using all pitches.

4. Game...you should be able to hit glove 8 out of 10 times etc...


You are just trying to groove and repeat a delivery. Pitching is nothing more than a glorified version of throwing. So......

It is a progression...you are basically developing feel, control and command while throwing.

You have to be able to take playing catch to flat ground to the bullpen to the game w/o losing command. Some things may fall apart along the way. For example you may be able to play catch, flat ground and throw a side w/ great accuracy but when you get to the game things kind of go astray....Hence practice grooving the delivery so that you can ultimately repeat it in a game under pressure that varies. It takes a while....control will come before command....you may never have great command till you are well into your 20's....for some it may happen sooner....

Pitching is a progression much like hitting.

The hitter wants to grove a swing....he has to take the swing from the tee to front toss. From front toss to BP. From BP to the game. It takes time and while developing the swing it may break down along the way until proper repetition allows for a very similar swing in all areas from tee work to the game.....
Last edited by LOW337
RollermanRollerman100+ posts

Low,
I like your routine.
100% bullpen with 30 or more pitches on one days rest might be a bit stressful.
Things I might include;
Rotator cuff work immediately after the game and some throughout the recovery period.
Bullpen on Wed. maybe at 55ft(a Clemmens' routine) to encourage keeping the ball low.
Horizontal and laterral burst to keep ballistic strength up.
Lots of lunges
Rice bucket work
AND, IF the athlete is conditioned to it LT with a 6oz. ball (weighs less than a softball)on Tuesday.
Rollerman
C ccbsball1210+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by LOW337:
And IMO....I have seen great benefits from flat ground work.....Some guys like it more than others....

Here is the question I have....and I feel strongly about flat ground work when done correctly.....

If you can't throw the ball where you want when you want (I'm talking 8 of 10 pitches w/ all pitches) on flat ground at 45 - 50 ft....then how do you expect to do the same from 60 ft 6 in downhill. Are they different?....well sure they are. But so is hitting off a tee.

It is extremely physically demanding to throw downhill in a game (and that is if the slope is an inch a foot, most HS & college slopes are steeper which means more stress). You simply cannot throw downhill everyday in between starts and be ready to compete. Flat ground work in my eyes is just developing a skill less stressfully. And that skill is throwing the ball where you want when you want (command).

Do you need to throw downhill between starts....Absolutely....if throwing every fifth day my experience is we do it on the second day of rest so that I may have two complete days off before my next start....some prefer to throw their side (bullpen, downhill) on the third day w/ one day off before the next start......

I think you guys got confused,...that is my fault.....when I say throw a side...I mean a bullpen session downhill (35-50 pitches at 100% or to preference)


honestly i think it comes to personal prefrence and how a pitcher wants to handle his in between starts workout....for me i love pitching off the mound instead of flat ground work for a couple of reasons...1) it gives me the feel of my timing and location of pitches so im comfortable going to into game situations 2) flat ground work is boring for me and why not just do the same thing on the mound

im not trying to say flat ground work is bad, i just prefer working off the mound better

low...it seems like you might be a coach, and you stress your players to throw A LOT between starts, for me i rather rest between starts, i condition my arm in the off season for the season so i dont have to strain my arm between starts

between stats i do the following 1)strength train 2)long toss (120-150 max) 3)throw a bullpen (usually at 75% depending on how i feel)
B Bustamove100+ posts
quote:
It is extremely physically demanding to throw downhill in a game (and that is if the slope is an inch a foot, most HS & college slopes are steeper which means more stress). You simply cannot throw downhill everyday in between starts and be ready to compete. Flat ground work in my eyes is just developing a skill less stressfully. And that skill is throwing the ball where you want when you want (command).


This statement is incorrect. It is actually more stressful throwing on flat ground. Because when you're throwing off the mound you have gravity working to aid the body so the arm actually takes less stress from the mound.
L LOW337100+ posts
quote:
quote:From LOW
It is extremely physically demanding to throw downhill in a game (and that is if the slope is an inch a foot, most HS & college slopes are steeper which means more stress). You simply cannot throw downhill everyday in between starts and be ready to compete. Flat ground work in my eyes is just developing a skill less stressfully. And that skill is throwing the ball where you want when you want (command).


From Busta:
This statement is incorrect. It is actually more stressful throwing on flat ground. Because when you're throwing off the mound you have gravity working to aid the body so the arm actually takes less stress from the mound.
Posts: 70 | Location: U.S. | Registered: July 15, 2006


Busta,

I respectfully disagree. The gravity is what adds the stress to the body, in particular the shoulder area. And if I may....From what practical experience to do speak?

Busta,
I would also be curious to see your workloads between starts . What are they?

CCbsball,

We are very similar in our preparation between starts. Personal preference is huge....I agree.
Last edited by LOW337
ShepsterShepster1,000+ posts
quote:
wed...throw not 100% but just toss stretching your arm out to 120-150 yard max along with sprints and core work


LOW, I saw this also and cc must mean feet not yards.

Hope those AAA hitters didn't rough you up too much yesterday throwing batting practice in Louisville.

Veal and Bannister both pitched extremely well last night in St Lucie. Pitchers duel Smile Have a great day LOW & Board and I bet you will never guess where I'm headed... Smile I don't even have to answer that one...oh alright, the ballpark. If you get a chance LOW & Board, ck out those unbelievable closeup zoom lens photos of Kershaw in TX Forum. peace, Shep
Last edited by Shepster
B Bustamove100+ posts
quote:
Busta,
I would also be curious to see your workloads between starts . What are they?


I have pitchers throw two bullpens inbetween there starts. One 50-60 pitches at 100% intensity. The other one 30-40 pitches at 100% intensity. I have them do this because they are working on their command and are working on building skill. The reason there arms are in good shape is because I have trained them to be fit to pitch. And you do that by throwing off the mound at 100% intensity, including the offseason, 2-3 times a week.
L LOW337100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bustamove:
quote:
Busta,
I would also be curious to see your workloads between starts . What are they?


I have pitchers throw two bullpens inbetween there starts. One 50-60 pitches at 100% intensity. The other one 30-40 pitches at 100% intensity. I have them do this because they are working on their command and are working on building skill. The reason there arms are in good shape is because I have trained them to be fit to pitch. And you do that by throwing off the mound at 100% intensity, including the offseason, 2-3 times a week.


Is this done while starting on every fifth day? Much easier to accomplish w/ HS or College pither as the teams they play on do not play every day. Would you agree?

And on which day(s) of rest do you throw sides?
Last edited by LOW337
L LOW337100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bustamove:
quote:
Is this done while starting on every fifth day? Much easier to accomplish w/ HS or College pither as the teams they play on do not play every day. Would you agree?


Yes it's when you start every fifth day. I agree but it can still be done, you just have to make the effort.


Bustamove,

So when would you get two sides in w/ a five man rotation? Which days of rest? see below.....

If you had a pitcher that started/pitched on a Monday 7 innings (110 pitches)

Tue : What do you have your pitchers do?
Wed : What do you have your pitchers do?
Thur: What do you have your pitchers do?
Fri : What do you have your pitchers do?
Sat : Game/Start
Last edited by LOW337
B Bustamove100+ posts
quote:
Bustamove,

So when would you get two sides in w/ a five man rotation? Which days of rest? see below.....

If you had a pitcher that started/pitched on a Monday 7 innings (110 pitches)

Tue : What do you have your pitchers do?
Wed : What do you have your pitchers do?
Thur: What do you have your pitchers do?
Fri : What do you have your pitchers do?
Sat : Game/Start


Tue: Some running-distance and sprints
Wed: Play some catch and running
Thur: Throw a 40 pitch bullpen at 100% intensity
Fri: Rest day,mental exercises

I would only have the pitcher throw one bullpen with 4 days rest.
B Bustamove100+ posts
quote:
Thank you....you confused me a bit w/ earlier comments. As I read you said you throw 2 sides between starts. I said/asked even if you are starting every fifth day and you said yes. Now you say only once. We are clear now.


Haha sorry about that. I thought you ment 5 days rest not every fifth day. With 4 days rest you defenitely don't want to throw two bullpens a week.

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