Slider, Curveball, ESPN sure can't tell?

It seems to me that Jon Miller, I hate listening to him and Joe Morgan announce games, is not the only announcer that cannot tell the difference between a slider and curveball. On YES network, Ken Singleton and Michael Kay (the worst color commentator in baseball) had the same problem with C.C. Sabbathia...at one point the even called his slider a sinker

quote:

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
The first game of the MLB season was tonight against the powerhouse Phillies and the Braves. Lowe was pitching for the Braves, a known sinkerball pitcher. John Miller and Joe Morgan, long time ESPN sports announcers, could not agree on Lowe's breaking ball- whether it was a slider or a curveball. According to Lowe, he doesn't throw a slider, and yet through nearly 6 innings of baseball tonight John Miller kept calling his breaking ball a "slider". Finally in the seventh I believe, Joe Morgan tried to set him straight. The debate insued throughout the rest of the game on the difference between a slider and a curveball.

In the end, Joe just ended up calling it the "breaking ball". I thought the discussion was interesting- here you have two well informed baseball announcers on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball who can't decide on what pitch a pitcher is throwing! One thing was for sure though, no one on the Phillies could hit the darned thing!
I have noticed something though watching baseball with the breaking ball. Let the pitcher decide what pitch he is throwing and let him call it that. If a pitcher says it is the curve- then certainly it must be the curve. Don't you find it strange that everyone debates on what a pitcher actually throws except for the pitcher himself, of coarse- just ask him, he knows exactly what he throws!

Wouldn't this really be all that matters.

I enjoy listening to them but at times they do seem to go off on tangents.

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here you have two well informed baseball announcers on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball who can't decide on what pitch a pitcher is throwing

Now you're getting in muddy water here..Joe Morgan should take a "Shut-the-heck-up" pill and retire someplace...Remember these guys are seeing it live and have to react immediately to what they see, soooooo, call it a breaking ball and call it a day, unless it's an obvious thing, for example Zambrano's slide piece has the "traditional" break.
The reason I think Morgan should get off of tv is he's constantly negative...Miller is at least pleasent to listen to, Sutcliffe is also getting to that "Everything sucks" level..good announcer but man get off of the hard negativity...I'm a Cubs fan, but I still think the combination of Steve Stone and Chip Carey were the best announcing duo ever, they were funny and understood baseball...and didn't take themselves too seriously

But Sports announcers have much supportive information to lean upon. Almost always, they have a list of what a pitcher throws, have done their homework on the pitcher and have a tv monitor live sitting in front of them.

Always liked Miller and Morgan and still do.

I agree with Danny. I love their voices. They are gold in my eyes. As a Yankee fan though, I really don't like Kay particularly.

Hmm....Miller and Morgan or Buck and McCarver???

Reminds me that I do not like when the Red Sox are on a National Broadcast!!! Both sets of announcers stink!! Though I like John Miller out of any of them! I'll take the NESN group any day...even if Orsillo and Remy can get a little loopy at times..lol.

The pitcher doesn't always know if he's throwing a slider or a curve. Usually, but not always, you can tell by the velocity relative to the fastball. A typical curve is more than 10 mph slower than a fastball. A typical slider is 7 or 8 mph slower.

When a pitcher throws the curve harder than normal or the slider slower than normal it is hard to know. I think of the slower slider as a slurve. I think of Frankie Rodriguez' hard breaking ball as a power curve as does Frankie and not a slider and you can see from images that the sides of his fingers face the plate confirming that it is a curve.

Lowe was throwing his fastball from 88-90 and his breaking ball at 84 during the first inning. Gameday reported it as a slider and it probably was even if Lowe calls it a curve. You really have to see the shape of the pitch to be fairly certain. On the other hand Lowe's top end is much higher than his working velocity and it is possible he's throwing a power curve.

I'm sure many will disagree but the way I differentiate a curve from from a slider is that the sides of the fingers face home plate when throwing a curve as shown in the image of Zito below and the tips of the fingers face home plate when throwing a slider. They can't see that from the broadcaster's booth so they are just guessing based on velocity and movement as are the rest of us. For example, we've got one kid who throws an 80 mph fastball and IMO a 73 mph slider and another kid who throws an 83 mph fastball and IMO a 74 mph curve. The kid who throws the slider insists he's throwing a curve.