Some questions about playing in the Ivy League

Aleebaba,

There are several on this board who's son is playing among the Ivys.  I've gotten to know most of them and I think you'll find each school (8 of them) is very similar, but can also be very different as well.  It has been absolutely the best decision my son made, and I know others feel very strongly about it too.   Every year there seems to be about 6-10 kids that get drafted from the Ivys.   Being drafted was not a priority for my son, but I know some of the others do feel strongly as they wanted that option.  As I see it, they probably would not have similar opportunities overall to get drafted because the Ivys are recruiting a different talent level overall.   However, the level of talent in the Ivy League has gone up (quite a bit IMHO) the last few years and I expect it will continue to do so. 

Please feel free to "PM" me (Dialogue is the new term) if you want to discuss specifics.  I'll share as much as I know to help you better understand the pros and cons of Ivy baseball.

Great question.  I'm also interested in learning more about the Ivys as my son has a couple emailing him regularly.

Harvard (not sure about others) has a Net Price Calculator on its website which will help you figure out your contribution.  My experience a few years ago did not result in the 10% parent contribution that I had read about in the newspaper.  

If your son is a pitching prospect it probebely doesn't matter much where he plays as long as he throws hard.  If your son is a position player, he'll improve his chances to get drafted by playing in a league with deeper/next level pitching. A position player needs to show he can hit next level pitching and next level pitching is found more often in Leagues such as ACC, SEC Pac12/10..Of course his chances will be nil if he's sitting on a bench in any league. 

If you don't have a choice between the Ivy League and SEC none of this really matters and its really more important to find a coach that believes in your son, whether its the Ivy league or a JC.

I'm curious how your sons got on the Ivy's radar?

Stanford Camp and a PG event in Fort Meyers in the Fall.

The Stanford Camp was also how my son got on some Ivy's radar.

The Stanford camp is a great place to start, but there is nothing wrong with sending the recruiting coach an email with a profile to get on their radar. All of these schools recruit nationally, and lots of them go to the Ft Meyers PG event. Many are at the Arizona Fall Classic Academic game, but you should be on their radar prior to this event.

As Fenway pointed out they are very similar in approach, but quite frankly are very different in subtle ways. The best way to put it is that they all have their quirks. They also have very different levels of financial support so it would be a huge mistake to assume they all use the 10% rule of thumb you posted. It may be true for Harvard, or possibly one other, but it is not true for a number of them. Most are allocated slots for their program where they get “support” which is financial, academic leeway, and other resources.

If getting drafted is a high priority go someplace else, but if getting set for life is a priority then by all means go to one!

Like many nationally recognized D1’s they cast a very wide net to get to the approximately 8 recruits they bring in each year.  It is an extremely small needle they thread but a great opportunity if you have the academic and baseball skills they are looking for.

For what it's worth, my son got quite a bit of interest from the Headfirst Honor Roll Camp.  Dartmouth, Yale and Harvard were in attendance.  If you happen to be out west, Cornell and Columbia have been at a lot of events,including the Baseball Northwest Championships and PG/Evoshield Underclass.  Headfirst is also very good for the Patriot League teams.

My sons interest came through his summer team. He also recently got an invite to the honor roll camp.  He probably needs to learn more about that one to see if it makes sense to attend.

This website lets you search the draft history of schools, including the Ivies...lists every player drafted and how far they got.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/draft/research.asp

That 10% refers to parental contribution, with "typical assets" (if you own a business, the Net Price Calculator might not work very well). Remember there is also an expected student contribution, both from assets and summer and school year employment.

Some comments/observations:

Fenwaysouth is the man when it comes to Ivy League baseball--he is a great resource and very generous when it comes to sharing his knowledge and experience.

If your son's primary goal is to be drafted, then I think an Ivy School is not for him. If getting the best education possible and also having the opportunity to play some very competitive mid-level D-I ball, then you should seriously consider the Ivies. The cream always rises to the top--if your son is draft-worthy at the end of his junior year (and makes it known that he is not averse to leaving school), he has a very good chance of being drafted.

There are some strong teams at the top and some teams that seem to struggle year in and year out at the bottom.

The most successful teams have strong, deep pitching.

In terms of financial aid, the only way to really determine how much you might get is for you to get a financial "pre-read" from a particular school. The Ivy schools definitely vary in terms of "grant" money that they award. It's all based on need, according to each school's formula and the amount of money set aside for this purpose. As said elsewhere, if you own a business or have substantial assets, you are less likely to receive $.

Good luck!

Son participated in PG WWBA in GA and the PG Florida Tourney summer after Soph year. He hit schools radar from those and they followed his Jr season. After taking SATs and scoring well the Ivys got serious. Several saw him in May June of Jr year and offers came in June July . What is tricky with the Ivys is making sure you understand how serious the talks are on their part before the Ivy's offer a slot, especially if you have offers on the table from non ivys. Son had to turn down other earlier non Ivy offers hoping that Ivys would offer after Jr year( June July). Most Ivys want to see your SATs,  transcripts through Junior year and see you play(sometimes several times) before they pull the trigger. Good luck

Good Question. We wanted to make sure we were not just hearing what we wanted to  hear from the emails and campus visits as they are looking at many candidates for a rare 5-7 slots per team. So, sons travel ball coach reached out to two coaches  and he came away from those discussions as though he was definitely a player they wanted. That gave us more reassurance from a baseball standpoint he would probably get an offer(assuming he played to his capabilty when they saw him).

 From an Academic standpoint he was told by all coaches where he needed to be from an SAT standpoint and an overall academic standpoint through junior year. He was good to go from that aspect as well. Lastly some consulting with Fenway here was invaluable. One additional note is that your son needs to take two SAT subject tests. More of a formality but required and most schools want those scores in the mid 600s or higher. Having all the academic stuff behind him come June was HUGE!!

Your son can reach out by email (assuming he is a junior? and they can email back) and set up a phone call to talk with the coach. Be proactive. By all means if you are interested make sure they know!! He should communicate and create dialogue.

For those whose sons are just beginning to consider Ivy schools, make sure you do some searching on this forum (and research elsewhere online) for two things that are unique to the Ivy recruiting process:

(1) the Academic Index or AI

(2) the Likely Letter

slotty-can you comment further on the Academic Index and the Likely Letter.  My son is finishing his jr year and after PG Ft Myers back in the fall was contacted by a few schools including a couple ivies.  He went on 2 unofficial visits and has kept in touch via email.  He will go back to PG WWBA 17u in Georgia this July with his summer team but has no firm offers.  He is an outfielder that attends a private boys school-one of top baseball programs in the mid atlantic region, has a 4.0 GPA/4.32 weighted and 740 Math, 630 Reading/1990 total SAT scores. Taking 2 SAT subject tests this Saturday.  Ivies indicated his SATs were above threshold which surprised me-thought he would take again in October.  These schools want his transcripts next week and to see him play this summer.  I am thinking about biting the bullet and going totally broke and signing him up for a Headfirst Honor Roll Camp in August.  Are his scores really good enough for the ivies? Any advice appreciated.

Hi chcardinalfan:

I'm sending you a "Dialogue" or, in the old parlance, a "PM."

@chccardinalfan...sending you a PM/dialogue now

Talked to a dad of a player at a great academic D1 college yesterday.  He told me that Headfirst Long Island was the best camp his son attended.  Based on what I was told by different Ivy/top academic schools your son's grades seem good enough for most, but maybe not all, (i.e. Princeton, Harvard).  It would depend on other factors (like scores in certain courses).  My kids scores are similar under the ACT and we are going to HF Long Island.  Never know who might be interested, and this is his shot.

Here's a great site I found a while back regarding Ivy League Recruiting.

Has a breakdown of your questions regarding "academic index" and the "likely letter".

http://www.tier1athletics.org/blug/

In addition to the Tier One URL jazzmik provided, there is an "Ivy League Athletic Recruiting" guideline written by the (same) Tier One blogger that can be purchased very inexpensively on Amazon.  It is worth every penny, and I highly recommend it.  It is the compilation of many Ivy League recruiting experiences put into one document.

chccardinalfan - please feel free to "Dialogue" me if you have specific questions or want to throw ideas out.

thank you for the replies and dialogue! and thanks jazzmick for the link; fenway south for the book title!! I downloaded it this morning and plan to read it over the weekend. Looking for some suggestions for some solid

academic schools outside the ivies (and including division 3) that have good baseball programs as well. So far our short list consists of Trinity (CT), Amherst, Davidson, Furman, Hopkins, Tufts, William and Mary. What schools should be added to this list? 

Williams, Haverford, Swarthmore, Emory, and Rhodes come to mind.  Certainly, there are more depending on what exactly you are looking for.  Good luck!

Is there any way to compare pitching/play in Ivies to D1 schools in non-major conferences?  Do you think chances to get drafted are similar?  

They hold their own in the draft compared to other non-major conferences.  Over the last five years, the Ivy League has had as few as six and as many as fourteen players drafted each year.  They also have a few undrafted players sign as free agents. 

Aleebaba,

I know of 8 players drafted out of the Ivys last year, and another signed with the Yankees out of the Cape Cod League this summer.  9 isn't many.  You can compare whatever school/conference you are thinking of by using this tool that Blue10 turned me onto: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/draft/research.asp.   Truthfully, I think you will find some very talented folks in the ivy League, but I think most of them have a different career path in mind.

My son is entering his senior year with an Ivy.  I've seen many Ivy and Mid-Major D1 games in the last 6 years (A10, CAA, and many more).  The top line pitching is competitive between the two IMHO, and I think you will find most top level pitchers in the Ivy were offered D1 scholarships elsewhere including mid-majors.  The difference between the Ivy and D1 mid-majors is possibly depth, both for position players and pitching. 

All high quality college players get scouted, regardless of their conference. If a college player has what is considered an adequate professional skillset, he'll get drafted.