“Something to show”

Good references here

https://www.ncsasports.org/bas...ecruiting-guidelines

https://keepplayingbaseball.or...with-recruiting-101/

IMHO "something to show" is not necessarily a hard number unless you've already hit some of the old usuals (e.g. a sub 7 60 or 90 on the mound). To me, something to show should take your son's long-term goals/ceiling into consideration. Ultimately, it is cautioning people not to start so early that you are posting numbers that will sit out there (unless you go again to replace them) and not accurately represent your son. It's also about spending your money well. I'd much rather only have to do one or two showcases than have to do 4 or 5 constantly trying to improve on what I did before. PTWoodson's first real experience was a local PBR showcase Fall of sophomore year. It was a good benchmark, gave him experience in a showcase setting and earned a Future Games invite. 

FWIW, he also did a college camp fall of sophomore year where he got his measureables (not published), he got a speech from a college coach on the importance of grades and how the recruiting process works, and he got experience in a showcase and game setting with a ton of college coaches watching. It was a good experience for him. 

Just like anything else with youth baseball, I think it's a good idea to consider why you are spending the money. Is it because your son has hard numbers that will strongly position him on his desired recruiting path (we went to the PG recruiting page, looked at some of the schools on our son's list and look at the measurables of the players in his position)? Is it because he wants experience in a showcase setting to prepare him for tryouts or camps? Is it an opening to a larger opportunity like PG Jr Nationals/Nationals or the Future Games? 

That was our approach.

Welcome!  The great thing about this site is that you get answers from parents of top-D1 kids, and from parents of juco-bound kids, and everything in between.  My son is at a D3.

The most useful thing is to get hooked up with an instructor or travel team whose coach/organization understands and is active in college recruiting.  Then, ask that coach questions about your son, and listen to his answers. 

D1 schools recruit as early as they can, they are looking for FB 90 (lower for lhp), 60-time below 7.0 (really below 6.8), pop time below 2.0, etc.  Lower-level D1s, and every other level, recruit summer after junior year, into senior year.  So, if your son has D1 measurables, showcase when he hits them.  If not, showcase in May after junior year, because at that point his numbers and his playing skills will determine what level is interested in him, and they will watch him that summer.

"Hitting numbers along the way" is somewhat misleading.  You might be throwing 83 as a freshman, and 86 as a rising senior.  Sure, D1 schools might "keep an eye on you", but they will take action when you reach the numbers they want.  They will equally take action on a kid they had never heard of before, if he has what they want.

My son went to showcases because his friends were, even though his travel coaches did not tell us he should.  Wasted a lot of money and time, but it's hard to avoid the peer pressure.  My son had a friend who played on a local team through 16U, for 17U played on the bottom team of a large organization, never showcased, he ended up at a D2.

For pitchers I wouldn't be showcasing until I hit 85 or it is the summer heading into my senior year and I'm now recruitable in the eyes of D3s . If you want to go to a cheap showcase to get some numbers or see how he compares to other talent, there's nothing wrong with that. 

I don't know why everybody says you have to throw 90 to play D1 baseball. It really isn't true. 

For a position player you have to have a strong accurate arm, good foot work, speed, and obviously the ability to hit the ball hard every time and find gaps. Until he is doing this regularly I wouldn't be spending any big money on showcases. 

100-200 here and there, sure. But no sense in dropping 800 on a Pg showcase or even 400 on PBR. 

He may feel left out, but unless his teammates are super studs, you can sleep easy at night knowing you're not wasting the money they are. 

My first piece of advice is to always know the results of your kid's showcase BEFORE he attends.  Hope is not a strategy.  Everyone should have a very solid idea going in of what the numbers will be.  Take the necessary steps to know that first.  As others have said, do some research on peers and those who have landed what you hope to and compare/contrast with that of your kid.  If you're confident the numbers are good/worthwhile, go do it.

Another approach you can take first is to do non-PG/PBR showcase where the numbers are provided to you, but not posted online.  A "safer" way to dip your toe in.  You then take those numbers and get to work to bring them up to where you want them to be and then go do a PG, PBR, etc showcase to get them "verified."

While I agree that until your numbers are worthwhile, most should wait to do showcases, it's impossible to ignore the branding piece of recruiting.  Being "out there" and visible in the baseball community is a factor.  My son did his first showcase a bit later than some of his peers because something always seemed to come up.  The good news is that in his first showing (August heading into Jr year), his numbers were very good. The bad news was that he was a relative unknown so despite having measurebles that were all in the top 10 of 2021s in the state for PBR, he was initially ranked #25.  No, the rankings don't matter much to coaches, but your ranking does contribute to your brand in the community.  The baseball community talks, tweets, etc.  You do want people knowing who you are and talking about you whenever possible.  Nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd.  I have seen lots of kids land in very good spots that had amazing PR/hype machines behind them.  They were as good or better than the talents of the kids.  A dad buddy of a 2022 has a son in a similar situation as mine.  Every one of his measurables are top 10 and a couple are top 5 in the state.  Gorgeous 6'3" 195 lb frame.  Rankings came out and he's at #28.  I fully expect that to jump in the coming year as he builds his brand, but by then it'll likely be too late for D1 consideration.  

@DroppedStrikeThree    To keep it simple and short - grad 2024 has time.  If he is a 1% kid then sure do whatever floats your boat.  If not no big deal - wait till Junior year. Gives him some time to grow, mature, and put in the work ( ie. post better numbers). Also to note, PR or hype can only take a kid so far. Eventually the ball will find you!  

DroppedStrikeThree,

You can't be afraid to make mistakes.   We've all made them.  These electronic pages are full of my mistakes, but I never would have been able to best help my son without making them or asking many questions.  You are asking a very legitimate question.

So, there is a difference between local, regional and national showcases and their respective costs and expectations.  It also depends on what kind of showcase it is.   For example, academic showcases will be different and typically more expensive than skills showcases.   But the bottom line is you have to have baseball tools (or projectable baseball skills) to demonstrate whether it is glove, speed, bat, pitching, etc...  The academic showcases are looking for baseball tools plus academic metrics.   

In my son's case, he went to local and regional showcases to get a feel for what it was all about.  His travel team attended national tournaments before he stepped up to attend national showcases on his own.   So, he took a very cautious but progressive approach.   My son had projectable college pitchng skills but I'm glad he didn't rush into national showcases until he was ready.   There is no one way or right/wrong way to do this.   It was very much a feel thing for us.   We learned a lot on our journey, and then applied it.  The major lesson for us was that academics were a "hook" for my son, and once we got in touch with the Coaches looking for an academic recruit like him it gave him more options and opportunities.   Your son may have other skills that are in demand.   If he is left-handed then that can be a huge plus and you get a "discount" on pitching mph.

In my experience it is very difficult for two-way high school players to figure out what their primary tool is.   There are many high school two-way players, but two-way players in college are rare.   So, by attending an affordable local or regional showcase you may be able to establish what that primary tool is to college coaches. 

Just my two cents...Best of luck!

It is easier to stand out at regional showcases than at National.  Some regions are easier to stand out in than others.  The top performers for each measurable will get some press.  You can look at past top performers to get an idea of how competitive a showcase is (at least for PG).  Unless your son's skills really stand out as a two way, pick.  My son did a couple showcases as a two way and his velo across the field made him a top performer but we knew he was not a third baseman long term, his future was as a pitcher. After the first two, he only attended as a PO.  My son attended his first showcase summer before freshman year.  It just gave us an idea where he stood outside of our community.  I think that was more beneficial for us as parents than it really was for him.  It's easy to get comfortable in your bubble.

As Fenway said, there is no right or wrong.  We 100% used showcases for the majority of my son's recruiting.  He did not want to play for a power team or be a guest pitcher.  He wanted to play with his friends.  There weren't going to be a lot of scouts at our games.  We had to use showcases to get him seen and it worked.  He was well ranked in PBR and PG and they both gave him a lot of PR.  Everyone has their own path you just have to have a plan.

Something that is not said here enough if any is make sure he knows what to expect at a showcase.  Go watch one or at least talk to someone experienced before he goes.  it is overwhelming if they do not understand what they are supposed to do ahead of time.  I've watched some kids and felt so sorry for them because they had no clue what they were supposed to do in any aspect including the running.  Saw a kid who they put at the front of the line against a true track star who had no idea when they dropped the cap that he was supposed to run until the other kid took off.  He ran a great time because the guy running clock did not start until he took off.  Really looked bad because the other kid jumped the cap and could fly.  Help them know what to do and how to do it and what they are and aren't looking for.   I always had my HS guys do a showcase on a  Saturday morning so when they decided to go to one they would know what to expect and how to succeed.  Most don't care how accurate the outfield throws are as long as they are fast. 

Middle son went to one as a first baseman/LHP but a coach wanted to see him do the outfield group.  He told son don't worry about the speed I want to see the strength of your arm.  He had him throw it over the dugout and onto the other field's second base because they were in so close in right field.  Everybody looked at him like he was crazy except for the coach who jumped up and yelled that's what I want to see. 

Agree with much of this and with PTWood about using a college camp for showcase prep.  My son went to a college camp after travel ball ended the summer before his junior year, about 3 weeks before his first showcase.  It was a very valuable experience for him, from what to expect at a showcase, to over coming jitters about the unknown (no teammates & in a different state), to gaining confidence and knowledge about the recruiting process, etc.  He is a position player.  The experience may not translate for a pitcher. The camp was well organized, at a great facility. 

I'm talking preparation for a showcase.  Son benefited greatly in the recruiting process because of efforts made by his travel coach.  

Just keep in mind that it is different for everyone. Like most things! Some players can really use the experience to help them in the future. They may use it as incentive to increase their work effort after seeing what it takes and others may just need it so that they don't "choke" while performing in the future. If you can afford it and your son really is interested and money is not too much (or doesn't matter) then by all means, attend! The most important thing is to become educated on the various showcases so you can decide what will work best in you son's particular case.

My son is a PO so I'm a little biased/jaded as you can tell.

PG is $700 and they do the same at ALL of them. So no need to travel to someplace special to get one in unless you're also going to visit a campus of interest while you're there. Same price for POs and you only get 3 innings. 
Yeah, $700. $233 per inning and you get a shirt/shorts (sometimes) and a hat.... $78/batter if you pitch to the minimum....

Additionally, in PG specifically, your latest Showcase picture becomes your permanent profile picture and you can't change it. If you don't go to a showcase it is the last picture you upload.

Also no one will be in attendance the rest of the year, except by video. Don't expect coaches/scouts as these. 

PBR TX showcases were a disaster. 10-15 pitches, thank you, good bye..... Your results in other states may vary.

College camps (some better than others. Don't go to the "cattle call" ones and try to focus on the prospect ones if you can.) Try to get a campus tour included (when they allow them again). 

• Vandy's camp was 5 days and brutal, but Corbin and coaches were there and active the entire time. Best camp of the lot! (Campus tour) 
• Duke's Elite camp, 2.5 days, was a joke, but worked the same time for UNC and travel, but had middle schoolers-high schoolers....not advised.  (small campus tour)
• UNC's Prospect was very good. (partial campus tour) GEORGOUS CAMPUS
• Arkansas, was mini-showcase, 2 IP, meh....INCREDIBLE facilities! 
• Texas, prospect was meh....2 IP only.
• Virginia's was quite good. All the coaches there and active both days. (1.5 hr campus tour). Great camp. HUGE campus.

Make sure you're going to check out campuses...you have to see the campus where you'll be full time and check out the surrounding city too.....

Ok funny story about "Make sure you have something to show."

Our guy is a RHP/SS committed to a D1. Several years ago he received a call from PBR. There is an event near you. You are not listed. We will let you do it free it you catch for it. Of course he says sure. Goes to the thing and is evaluated as a Catcher! Good pop time, ok velo, but with all that gear on he can't manage to hit 3b. 

He had something to show but not catcher skill! Of course it is always listed on the site.

I wouldn't necessarily wait until he has something to show to do a showcase, but I would be selective in which showcases to look at. There are tons of cheaper ones with less exposure that might be good just to get a baseline on numbers and to let him see what it will be like. You'd be shocked at how many HS kids that have never run the 60. It's usually one of the first events at a showcase and I've watched kids get deflated after they ran a bad time. The hitting can also be a little tough to get used to. The kids stand in a line waiting for their turn to hit, they get a few pitches, then wait for another round and then they are done. 

For us, the bigger showcases would be a waste of money right now. My son's HS and his travel coach both said my son probably wouldn't stand out at a showcase right now but would definitely stand out in a game. He needs to add another 20 or so lbs before we seriously consider the bigger showcases. 

Thank you everyone for the helpful perspective. I get the point about having a sense of what he’ll “show” before doing the event. We have a decent sense for his measurables at this point (85 EV with wood off a tee, 83 off the mound, 87 from the OF, and a 7.4 60 hand timed). If he makes good progress this winter, I may get him to a local showcase in the spring. We’ll need to give more thought to the two-way question. His coach thinks he has a higher ceiling on the mound, but the kid loves to hit and does a decent job at it.

There were a couple of mentions of college camps. Is summer after freshman year too early? I was thinking it might be a good idea to try a couple if the travel and cost aren’t too high.

Depends on what you’re trying to get out of the camp and how much money do you have.

is he going to play varsity as a freshman? How’d the season go? Something to bring up in a letter to the coaches that you’re coming to the camp.

Is he going to “stand out” or not. If he is a stud in comparison to his peers and even the class ahead of him, then Go. If not, save yourself money.

I honestly would have thought a starting 6A varsity pitcher as a freshman would have been a bigger deal. There were less than a handful in Texas but it didn’t phase anyone. So not a lot of looks at that time. 

Is the school his dream school or in his top 10? Have you ever visited campus or the city before? You need to have a plan unless you just want to go to collect camp shirts and crappy hats.

Are you trying to commit early vs wait to mature and put on muscle, speed and velo?

The following year summer of sophomore is when recruiting picks up the pace and people start to look, unless you’re a stand out stud as a freshman....rare. 

Make sure to check out nearby campuses when you travel to various tournaments. You gotta put eyes on and walk around. Better with students around to give you a feel for what to expect. In your case 4 years from bow....plenty of time. 

No sense rushing it and save up. Lots of travel, tourneys, camps and showcases for the having that SO-JR summer $12-15k easy if you have to fly, rent cars and hotels for multiple stays.

Don’t rush it. Continue to have fun, put on good weight, and work on mechanics and speed. 

@DroppedStrikeThree posted:

There were a couple of mentions of college camps. Is summer after freshman year too early? I was thinking it might be a good idea to try a couple if the travel and cost aren’t too high.

Too early for what?  To have fun, see a campus, and learn something from the coaches?  Inspire him to work hard?  That's fine.  Camps are fundraisers for the baseball program.  General consensus is that for recruiting, don't go to a D1 camp until you have been personally invited by the coach ahead of time (not just the coach sending you an email saying "come to our camp," but the coach telling your travel coach that you should go to the camp).  Or if you're throwing 90.  Below D1 level, they don't recruit until after junior year of high school anyway, so no need to go to camps early there, either.

My son did a local showcase summer after freshman year to get baseline measurables and a feel for the process and other talent. After growing from 5’4” 120 summer after 8th grade to 5’11” 135 the summer after freshman

year he saw how important getting bigger, faster and stronger ASAP would help. After growing more, filling out and being all conference, after soph year he did a couple of showcases to show what he had. 

Based on being asked to play 17u for baseball people who know their stuff he targeted appropriate college programs.

@DroppedStrikeThree PTWoodson, a 2021, did his first one at the end of the summer season/early Fall (Sept 2, 2018). It was good timing because he had all summer to get reps in. He was personally asked to go by the RC. We went because the cost was reasonable, it was driveable and it was an opportunity to get on campus. The side benefit was getting an Email a few days later with his measureables and with that came comparable measurables are for the following categories: Average MLB/SEC, Average HS (for pitching); Division 1 Walk on, Average D1, Good D1, Outstanding (for exit velo); Below Average HS, Average HS, Above Average HS and Draft Pick (for position velocity). FWIW I don't think PTWoodson paid much attention to where he stacked up. One of the nice things about going young was that the kid just saw it as a fun chance to play more baseball; he didn't really view it as a nerve-wracking last chance to be seen/get recruited. 

@DroppedStrikeThree posted:

Thank you everyone for the helpful perspective. I get the point about having a sense of what he’ll “show” before doing the event. We have a decent sense for his measurables at this point (85 EV with wood off a tee, 83 off the mound, 87 from the OF, and a 7.4 60 hand timed). If he makes good progress this winter, I may get him to a local showcase in the spring. We’ll need to give more thought to the two-way question. His coach thinks he has a higher ceiling on the mound, but the kid loves to hit and does a decent job at it.

 

There were a couple of mentions of college camps. Is summer after freshman year too early? I was thinking it might be a good idea to try a couple if the travel and cost aren’t too high.

I don't know why everyone always discourages kids from playing two-way.  My LHP is 93 off the mound and still plays the outfield & hits.  He knows he probably won't when he gets to college, but he's enjoying it while it lasts.  I'm sure that his numbers would probably be a little higher if he was a PO, but honestly he would be bored out of his mind.  

^^And that's why.  Very few do that in college.  I don't think anyone discourages it for hs or summer ball, just for showcases.  Most kids only really stand out in one or the other.  There are always exceptions and your kid may be one.  When we moved to PO for showcases, my son was ranked the #3 3B in Texas and 20 something in the nation.  It was because he threw hard across the diamond.  We knew he wasn't really the number 3B when it came to college recruiting.  We wanted them to talk about his pitching so he could get the best school for that and not downgrade him later over 3B and try to be a fit for a lower quality schools so he could play both.

Our guy plays SS and pitcher in HS and travel ball, and will get a chance in college, but it is very difficult to do both.

 Really made a move when he listed pitcher vs ss in showcases though.

Nothing wrong with playing 2 ways as long as you can. Don’t plan on doing it in college tho. Getting recruited is much easier as a pitcher vs being a position player. For the sake of discussion assume that every college baseball roster has 40 players. Roughly half will be pitchers and half will be position players. At face value you can conclude that a good pitcher has better odds of being recruited compared to a good position player. How much better? Depends on the position. But if there are 4 corner infielders on a 40 man roster and there are 20 pitchers, that’s 5 to 1 odds. That’s why it’s a good idea to keep pitching if you can do it. 

Son played two ways in HS and showcase all the way through.  Was going to swing a bat last year and pitch but ...  This year he is not even swinging bat because the competition is so fierce at college that he wants to put all his energy into pitching plus there will be so many guys available to swing bats that there is no room for him unless coaches tell him otherwise.  The Covid mess caused there to be such a logjam that there will very little need for 2 way guys.  You can't afford to not be at the top of your game in your main position because there are so many waiting to take a spot.