In my opinion...Another example of how screwed up the NCAA is....The school gets 3 years. What happened to the head coach during that time?
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Isnt he working on ESPN now?
Yep, Holtz is on ESPN. Looks like his legacy is living on.
I wonder if they can keep Spurrier with a 3-year probation looming.
quote:Originally posted by HiHardHeat:
I wonder if they can keep Spurrier with a 3-year probation looming.
If he leaves maybe SC can take Brooks off of our hands here at UK....he's got good experience with probations
Yes, the NCAA is screwed up. No, the probation is not looming. It is currently in force.
Apparently, Fulmer at Tennessee admitted that he called the NCAA a few years ago because SC got a runningback he wanted.
After about 4 years of investigation, they found SC was guilty of getting academic tutoring for a signee who was taking a class at a Tech College in Columbia the summer prior to enrolling at SC, the Governor said "HI" and shook the hand of a prospective recruit at a basketball game during an official visit (the player didn't sign with SC, I believe he went to Tennessee), and during a recruiting visit by Lou Holtz one of the people present with the recruit's family was a columnist for a local Orangeburg newspaper.
That's essentially it. There may have been one or two more similar things, but that was essentially it, after four years of investigation.
Put the NCAA on pretty much any college campus (except Tennessee) investigating for four years, they're going to find something. There's too many vagaries in the rules not to.
Spurrier knew it coming in. The penalty is pretty minor...I think the FB team lost 2 or 3 schollies for 2 or 3 years.
Much ado about nothing. Someone at the NCAA was wanting to make a stir, because they just knew 'Ole Lou was up to no good. The only thing they found that Lou had any connection with was the reporter present at the recruiting visit, and the shame of it all was that Lou didn't know there was a reporter present, because the recruit had a house full of family there, and the guy was just mingling with the family.
If memory serves me right, pretty much everything was self reported by the AD. Lou didn't do SC any favors by trying to run the veer in the SEC, but he sure wasn't playing dirty.
Apparently, Fulmer at Tennessee admitted that he called the NCAA a few years ago because SC got a runningback he wanted.
After about 4 years of investigation, they found SC was guilty of getting academic tutoring for a signee who was taking a class at a Tech College in Columbia the summer prior to enrolling at SC, the Governor said "HI" and shook the hand of a prospective recruit at a basketball game during an official visit (the player didn't sign with SC, I believe he went to Tennessee), and during a recruiting visit by Lou Holtz one of the people present with the recruit's family was a columnist for a local Orangeburg newspaper.
That's essentially it. There may have been one or two more similar things, but that was essentially it, after four years of investigation.
Put the NCAA on pretty much any college campus (except Tennessee) investigating for four years, they're going to find something. There's too many vagaries in the rules not to.
Spurrier knew it coming in. The penalty is pretty minor...I think the FB team lost 2 or 3 schollies for 2 or 3 years.
Much ado about nothing. Someone at the NCAA was wanting to make a stir, because they just knew 'Ole Lou was up to no good. The only thing they found that Lou had any connection with was the reporter present at the recruiting visit, and the shame of it all was that Lou didn't know there was a reporter present, because the recruit had a house full of family there, and the guy was just mingling with the family.
If memory serves me right, pretty much everything was self reported by the AD. Lou didn't do SC any favors by trying to run the veer in the SEC, but he sure wasn't playing dirty.
2seamer:
That's the best example of spin control that I've ever heard. You need to leave SC and take a job in the Bush Administration ... they need the help right now.
I'm a USC fan, but there is a bit more "meat" to the situation. You can read the public infractions report. The penalties are appropriate and it seems that the main way that Holtz was involved was just by being at the head of the ship instead of steering it into the rocks. He wasn't implicated in the report.
South Carolina Infraction Report Details: Public Release
That's the best example of spin control that I've ever heard. You need to leave SC and take a job in the Bush Administration ... they need the help right now.
I'm a USC fan, but there is a bit more "meat" to the situation. You can read the public infractions report. The penalties are appropriate and it seems that the main way that Holtz was involved was just by being at the head of the ship instead of steering it into the rocks. He wasn't implicated in the report.
South Carolina Infraction Report Details: Public Release
Are we SHOCKED about this being tied to Holtz? He is a front-runner...and when he didn't have talent at SC, he obviously felt he needed to do something extra to get it. Oh, by the way, probably the WORST announcer in the history of televised sports!
quote:That's the best example of spin control that I've ever heard. You need to leave SC and take a job in the Bush Administration ... they need the help right now.
HiHardHeat, if you are a USC fan you would know that Spurrior knew of this investigation when he took the job. He also was actively involved in the proposal to the NCAA on what the penalities the University should receive. They received no ban on bowl games or TV limitations. I believe they do give up 2 schollies for 2 years & a small reduction in the number of offical visits allowed.
BTW This is old news, this thing was decided months ago. Yesterday was just when the final & offical report was released. Spurrior commented at that time he was not concerned with the sanctions or the probation period because he had no intention of letting any more violation occur & did not use all of his alloted offical visits the previous year. Bottom line, Spurrior is very happy at USC & has stated publicly that this will be his final coaching job.
BTW This is old news, this thing was decided months ago. Yesterday was just when the final & offical report was released. Spurrior commented at that time he was not concerned with the sanctions or the probation period because he had no intention of letting any more violation occur & did not use all of his alloted offical visits the previous year. Bottom line, Spurrior is very happy at USC & has stated publicly that this will be his final coaching job.
I'm sure that Spurrier did .... but he strikes me as someone who was born under a "wandering star"....
The reduction in 2 scholy's won't affect the program. It's just probation, no penalty on TV or post-season.
The reduction in 2 scholy's won't affect the program. It's just probation, no penalty on TV or post-season.
I didn't do too bad for going off of memory. The main thrust of the whole thing was impermissable tutoring of two players over the six years that Holtz was there. The Head of Academic Support Services made some incorrect decisions on his own, and tried to lie about it. So they fired him.
I forgot about the camp brochure. What a big violation...the brochure in 2002 contained info that was not approved by the NCAA in 2002, but was approved in 2003 for all schools to use.
The kicker that was improperly reinstated by the Dean of the English Dept. was a pretty bad one too. He and his parents met with the Dean and asked for a second chance. He took that second chance to heart, brought his grades up, and graduated. Isn't that the goal?
Worse yet, a player that was essentially abandoned by his mother, who had to move in with his coach while he was in HS, received rides to places like doctors appts. and tutoring sessions by a flunky in the Athletic Dept. Why? Because most homeless teenagers don't have a car, or transportation money. Transportation of this sort is actually approved by the NCAA on an occasional basis, but the investigators said this happened too many times.
A player drove a prospective recruit on an official visit,(who happened to be an ex-HS teammate) outside of a 30 mile radius to pick up another ex-teammate who was also a prospective recruit. Why? They were friends. This technically made a second official visit for the second player. Neither one of the prospective recruits signed with SC, but it was a violation.
The NCAA investigators asked the entire team whether or not they felt that they were required to attend Summer workouts. Out of the entire team, five players said that they felt that the Strength/Conditioning coach made it mandatory. Well, how about that. That's the norm at D1 schools in the Summer....lift weights, run, attend class, timing drills with the QB and the receivers...wow. Right after this all came out, Coach Spurrier was talking to Coach Stoops at Oklahoma. He asked him if they had any players skip workouts at Oklahoma...Stoops laughed and told him that any players that missed summer workouts wouldn't be playing at Oklahoma. Georgia had an article printed about their Summer workout program... several of the players talked about how the coaches had schedules made out for pre-class and after-class workouts every day, and that the whole team participated. Yep, SC was trying to pull a fast one.
That's it. All that time, and all that money spent, with investigators looking into every nook and cranny, visiting high schools, looking at transcripts, interviewing ex-employees that had moved on to other jobs, and that's the best they could come up with. Yeah, they made some mistakes, and are paying an appropriate penalty for it. The NCAA was bound and determined to find evidence that Holtz was paying players, because Fulmer was convinced of it. Not only did they find zero evidence of that, they could only fault Holtz for not knowing that one person in a roomfull of people was a reporter. That's not spin...it's fact.
Like I said, let the NCAA spend almost 4 years investigating any school, and they will find something, because the rules are so vague and broad.
Of course, if you're Tennessee, professors can testify that football players have students do their work for them, or the quarterback admits to receiving payments from boosters, and nothing is done. People interviewed by the NCAA indicated that the night before signing day several years ago, Tennessee had coaches fanned out in Williamston, SC trying to find the RB they were wanting, because they were worried that he would change his mind and sign with SC. Yes, that's a major violation. No, the NCAA didn't take action on it. Or Maurice Clarett can admit that cars are provided to star football players at Ohio State, with the direct knowledge of the Head Coach, and no investigation takes place.
So, call it spin if you want. That's reality. The school is paying for their violations, but there are definitely bigger fish to fry out there that the NCAA is ignoring. Instead, they want to tell Illinois or South Dakota that they need to change their mascot, while Florida State doesn't need to.
I forgot about the camp brochure. What a big violation...the brochure in 2002 contained info that was not approved by the NCAA in 2002, but was approved in 2003 for all schools to use.
The kicker that was improperly reinstated by the Dean of the English Dept. was a pretty bad one too. He and his parents met with the Dean and asked for a second chance. He took that second chance to heart, brought his grades up, and graduated. Isn't that the goal?
Worse yet, a player that was essentially abandoned by his mother, who had to move in with his coach while he was in HS, received rides to places like doctors appts. and tutoring sessions by a flunky in the Athletic Dept. Why? Because most homeless teenagers don't have a car, or transportation money. Transportation of this sort is actually approved by the NCAA on an occasional basis, but the investigators said this happened too many times.
A player drove a prospective recruit on an official visit,(who happened to be an ex-HS teammate) outside of a 30 mile radius to pick up another ex-teammate who was also a prospective recruit. Why? They were friends. This technically made a second official visit for the second player. Neither one of the prospective recruits signed with SC, but it was a violation.
The NCAA investigators asked the entire team whether or not they felt that they were required to attend Summer workouts. Out of the entire team, five players said that they felt that the Strength/Conditioning coach made it mandatory. Well, how about that. That's the norm at D1 schools in the Summer....lift weights, run, attend class, timing drills with the QB and the receivers...wow. Right after this all came out, Coach Spurrier was talking to Coach Stoops at Oklahoma. He asked him if they had any players skip workouts at Oklahoma...Stoops laughed and told him that any players that missed summer workouts wouldn't be playing at Oklahoma. Georgia had an article printed about their Summer workout program... several of the players talked about how the coaches had schedules made out for pre-class and after-class workouts every day, and that the whole team participated. Yep, SC was trying to pull a fast one.
That's it. All that time, and all that money spent, with investigators looking into every nook and cranny, visiting high schools, looking at transcripts, interviewing ex-employees that had moved on to other jobs, and that's the best they could come up with. Yeah, they made some mistakes, and are paying an appropriate penalty for it. The NCAA was bound and determined to find evidence that Holtz was paying players, because Fulmer was convinced of it. Not only did they find zero evidence of that, they could only fault Holtz for not knowing that one person in a roomfull of people was a reporter. That's not spin...it's fact.
Like I said, let the NCAA spend almost 4 years investigating any school, and they will find something, because the rules are so vague and broad.
Of course, if you're Tennessee, professors can testify that football players have students do their work for them, or the quarterback admits to receiving payments from boosters, and nothing is done. People interviewed by the NCAA indicated that the night before signing day several years ago, Tennessee had coaches fanned out in Williamston, SC trying to find the RB they were wanting, because they were worried that he would change his mind and sign with SC. Yes, that's a major violation. No, the NCAA didn't take action on it. Or Maurice Clarett can admit that cars are provided to star football players at Ohio State, with the direct knowledge of the Head Coach, and no investigation takes place.
So, call it spin if you want. That's reality. The school is paying for their violations, but there are definitely bigger fish to fry out there that the NCAA is ignoring. Instead, they want to tell Illinois or South Dakota that they need to change their mascot, while Florida State doesn't need to.
Seems like the NCAA has been busy.
In every situation, it's always about football and someone screwed up in compliance, not a reflection of coaching. Just posting this because it happens EVERYWHERE, not just at South Carolina.
http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/press_room/2005/n...infractions_rls.html
In every situation, it's always about football and someone screwed up in compliance, not a reflection of coaching. Just posting this because it happens EVERYWHERE, not just at South Carolina.
http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/press_room/2005/n...infractions_rls.html
2seamer-Would appreciate your sources about Ohio State and Tennessee
violations and Fulmer's involvement in trying to bring down SC football. Especially the part about Fulmer being "convinced" that Holtz was paying players.
Thanks.
violations and Fulmer's involvement in trying to bring down SC football. Especially the part about Fulmer being "convinced" that Holtz was paying players.
Thanks.
Georgia Tech just got nailed for using 19 academically ineligible palyers in variuos sport. Probation there to.
NCAA witch hunt. Nothing more...
Moc1, I don't have any links handy, there's a lot of different places I've seen the information. A lot of the Tennessee stuff came out after Alabama got popped for violations involving a player or players that Tennessee wanted, and the court cases following it has resulted in a lot of testimony being released. Sift through that, and you'll find it.
As for Maurice Clarett and Ohio State, if you just type "Maurice Clarett violations" into a search engine, you'll find a ton of stuff. Clarett alone was cited for 16 NCAA violations, he then ratted out Ohio State about cars, cash, and no-show summer jobs, and the NCAA basically blew it off.
As for Maurice Clarett and Ohio State, if you just type "Maurice Clarett violations" into a search engine, you'll find a ton of stuff. Clarett alone was cited for 16 NCAA violations, he then ratted out Ohio State about cars, cash, and no-show summer jobs, and the NCAA basically blew it off.