Spending $ on showcase tournaments for student with poor grades

that type of GPA will eliminate a good number of colleges. Has he done the SAT/ACT and the NCAA clearinghouse. On the clearinghouse site you can see what GPA's are required and SAT/ACT score. It is a sliding scale the higher the GPA the lower the ACT/SAT score has to be. Is he draftable out of high school. Why are his grades low? Bored? Immature? Some kids do better in college than high school, I did. Maybe he should go to a JUCO to grow up and ease into the college life for a couple years. If he is not draftable and cannot get into the majority of the schools at the event than you have your answer. target where he can get in.

Nobody can answer that for you.I will say this,if he is struggling like this in highschool what do you think it's going to be like playing in college and keeping up with his grades.

Playing college baseball at any level and keeping up with academics is really hard for most kids.

The demands of the college game are extremely time consuming and many struggle to stay elgible.

Personally I think a 1.8 Cumulative GPA will keep him out of most colleges anyway.I believe the grade qualifications just got harder for this next academic year.

We had a rule in our house Bs for keys,meaning no B's he didnt have access to his car.Never had a problem.

Another thing that I think needs to be made clear is this: Our son wanted to play college ball,he knew this in HS,or before HS,at the time had no idea if it were a possibility,BUT we set rules up.We always told him we would support him and do anything we could to help him achieve his dream BUT he had to maintain a specified GPA.We felt if we were going to put ourselves out of our time and money to help him towards a dream,then he had to achieve in the class room.

Every kid is different and some may have academic issues or learning problems, but there is help available and with hard work I would think most should be able to achieve a decent GPA to at least attend a state school.

quote:

Maybe he should go to a JUCO to grow up and ease into the college life for a couple years.

I work at a community college and every year we see how they change a student's perspective toward school. Our student-athletes have coaches who are as committed to their academic success as they are to their athletic success. They are held accountable for grades first.

We call it challenge with support - that's what any of us needs. Such a route may be a very viable option for your son to be successful both in baseball and in life. It is certainly something to consider . . . none of us wants to set our kids up to be unsuccessful.

[QUOTE]Why are his grades low?QUOTE]

He had a really rough sophomore year that brought his grade down. This year was much better. Also, I have not allowed him to get his license until he keeps his grades up or gets a job. I think reality is setting in for him now and he's just discouraged. I don't know anymore. It really sucks to see a talented kid like him give up the game.

Look he doesnt have to give up the game.And honestly if this is a wake up call and he has learned from his mistakes then that is awesome.

As mentioned before a JC is a very viable option.My own son went to a JC for one year and was able to go on to a great academic school.Most have to stay two years though,but still.

My son loved his JC baseball experience and is in contact with several plyers and coaches even four years later.

Kids make mistakes and its sometimes tough to see them go through the consequences.

Dont use this to feel sorry for him,use it to motivate and encourage success in the future.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fanofgame:
Look he doesnt have to give up the game.And honestly if this is a wake up call and he has learned from his mistakes then that is awesome.
QUOTE]

I understand that juco or community college might be the way to go for him. What I'm doubting is my decision to spend the $$ on this trip. My gut is telling me one thing, but my heart another. I've always supported him in baseball and would love nothing more than to see him succeed. It's a reality check for both of us. Will he benefit from being seen by colleges that won't touch him once they see his grades?

If you have circumstances that can explain the poor year and that you are trending up for junior and senior year, that would be taken into consideration.

Keep encouraging him to play as that will help continue to drive him to have good grades.

Also, are you still looking for a team as our team may need 1 or 2 more.

quote:

Also, are you still looking for a team as our team may need 1 or 2 more.

Our coach said he can pick up other players to fill our roster, so I'm pretty sure he will have a team if we decide to go.

We made a committment early this spring to go to this tournament with our team. I've always stressed the importance of a committment, especially baseball, to my son. Obviously I have not done as well in the grades department.

He's fine with going to a junior college. But will there be any junior colleges scouting down there?

I don't have advice about attending the tournament, but this kind of grades are a problem for playing at any 4 year school, by rule. As you'll see, he needs to keep up the recent improvement in grades.

Both NCAA D1 and D2 schools require 16 core courses for 2013 players, and a minimum 2.0 GPA calculated on those core courses. An "A" in PE doesn't count.

D1 has a sliding scale of SAT/ACT scores depending on GPA, and for the minimum 2.0 GPA, the player needs 1010/86 SAT/ACT. D2 requires 820/68 (68 corresponds to 17 as ACT scores are usually reported). NAIA asks for 860/18, but accepts all HS courses for the 2.0 GPA.

All three make some accommodation for students with diagnosed educational disabilities, but these do not reduce the basic GPA/SAT/ACT requirement.

D3 schools may make their own determination.

To answer the question about the tournament, if your looking for a JUCO route is will likely not be worth the money for the following reasons. They tend to recruit closer to home they do not have the big recruiting budgets and look for talent within commuting distance since most don't have dorms. You can find a good JUCO without going a large distance. here in the northwest JUCOs are very popular and good they are usually better than the DIII and DIII in our area. Quite honestly they live on kids like yours (and mine) who got the grade thing a little late and are good enough to play high level college but have to go the JUCO route. Contact them with a letter and email they are usually quick to respond and it will likely be the head coach and they are close enough to watch a local summer game or nearby tournament

hartbreakerr

Only you can answer that question. You should know that many of the very best Junior Colleges in the country do recruit hard at the event you are referring to. Also the number of MLB scouts in attendance will amaze you. That includes many of the 30 MLB scouting directors and crosscheckers.

I don't know how interested you are in professional baseball or if you even have that kind of talent. However, intelligent players with bad grades are actually attractive to pro scouts. You lose leverage, and potential huge signing $$$, but you gain interest if you show the necessary talent.

No one ever knows where, when, or which doors will open. It can help by trying more than one door.

Best of luck, no matter what you decide to do. If Juco is in the future, remember that grades are very important there and can create future opportunities.

Top JUCO's recruit out of state regularly as well out of the country. My son was offered by several jUCO's after Jupiter. To play in a top JUCO requires that your player be seen. If I could go to East Cobb or Juliter or Ft. Myers again with my son for a WWBA or BCS event, I would be all over it! Some of the best days of my life!

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:

If I could go to East Cobb or Juliter or Ft. Myers again with my son for a WWBA or BCS event, I would be all over it! Some of the best days of my life!

You sure aint kidding FF! Amen to that!

YGD

Lets get back to a core part of hartbreakerr's post/question:

quote:

This trip will probably cost around $1800, including hotel, gas, food, etc. I'm also having some serious second thoughts...

As was stated, thats obviously a personal question you will have to answer yourself. Its a tradeoff between family finances v. anticipated reward. I always tell people that I wouldn't break the family bank to do these things. There are other ways. I also have seen many parents blow a good amount of $$ to chase a dream that just wasn't very possible.

This is a good event and as PGStaff mentioned, there is a possibility of a high reward if your son is a highly talented prospect. There are also potential rewards at multiple levels of college ball. But there is also the possibility that you will never see a 'return' on the $1800 (e.g. college scholarship, pro signing $$ or just the sheer parental enjoyment of watching your son play ball).

If it were me, I would take a very serious look in the mirror...without my rose colored glasses...and figure out as best as I could where my son fit on the talent scale. And if I was pretty sure that he was near the upper end of that scale, then I'd open my bank statement, read it a couple of times...make sure the dogs are healthy and the car is in good running order...ask my wife what she thought...sit down and talk to my son about what I'm putting into this...and then I'd probably do it.

But there are a lot of "ifs' hidden in there. Its really up to you to figure this out.

I wish you the very best...I hope it works out in the best possible way!

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Lets get back to a core part of hartbreakerr's post/question:

quote:

This trip will probably cost around $1800, including hotel, gas, food, etc. I'm also having some serious second thoughts...

If it were me, I would take a very serious look in the mirror...without my rose colored glasses...

I would too. Obviously you have asked the question because of the cost.

There may be lots of of JUCO's in attendance. Someone correct me but I am not sure that a cummulative 1.9 would allow a player to be eligible to play even in JUCO.

Why would you place him in this situation, a coach sees him and calls, your son gets excited, the coach sees him grades, he will not be able to further recruit him and offer a scholarship no matter how talented he is.

I would spend the money on trying to get my son's grades up to "decent" so that he will be more attractive and worry about getting his diploma, that would be the number one priority in our house.

You haven't mentioned SAT/ACT scores.

Unfortunatly this is a gut reality check for all but what someone mentioned is true, if your son is unable to keep grades up in HS, he probably will not likely be able to in college.

Best of luck to your son.

quote:

It really sucks to see a talented kid like him give up the game.

But what about "giving up" on his grades??
If it was my son, I'd see what $1800 could get him for tutors, & SAT prep. Or talk with his academic counselors at the high school. focus on his academic strengths...With success in the classroom, he'll have success in other areas.

"First things first"

There will probably be tryouts at Juco's in your area during the fall. Often Juco's host summer & fall tournaments, too.

Good luck!

BTW, I'm a huge PG fan...my son did WWBA & showcases as So & Jr...

I've already budgeted for the trip. I have always seen the $$ spent on baseball as an investment in his future. And no, I don't expect a return on it, other than seeing my son play to the best of his ability. No rose-colored glasses here. I have had coach after coach tell me how talented my son is. Being a 17 year old, 6' 7", 185 lb kid, throwing in the upper 80's makes him a stand-out. Scouts have already told us his projectability is great. He's got above average command, a quick arm, and throws on a good downhill plane; all the makings of a great pitcher. Any coach who gets him into a weight room and a good program will be fortunate!

I spoke with a D2 coach today who said he can make some calls to some community colleges in our area. I'm sure we can get his GPA above 2.0 by the time he graduates next year.

I'm pretty sure we're going t GA, just to get the extra exposure. It sounds like an awesome opportunity for my son. And yes, definitely working on the grades. I've got him enrolled in SAT/ACT prep classes over the summer.

Thanks for the imput. Have a great day!

Seems like you already knew what you were going to do. Why did you ask for advice?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hartbreaker

No rose-colored glasses here.

Any coach who gets him into a weight room and a good program will be fortunate!

"I'm sure we can get his GPA above 2.0 by the time he graduates next year."

".... just to get the extra exposure."

Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't.

TPM,
All I can say is WOW!

quote:

But what about "giving up" on his grades??

I have never given up on his grades. He actually brought his GPA up from a 1.4 to start the year. This is a kid with ADD who was put into honors classes and struggled to keep up. I was in constant contact with teachers and administrators to get him the help he needed. No, he's not going to be a rocket scientist, but the boy sure can throw a nasty slider!


Why does anyone ask for advice? I asked on here because I know a lot of you have gone this route before and I wanted to look at the situation from all sides.

I appreciate your input, both positive and negative. Thank you.

quote:

TPM,
All I can say is WOW!

Next time I'll think twice before asking for opinions on here. Didn't realize it would turn into defending myself.

baseballmom - Must be nice to live in a glass house. Not all kids are gifted in every way.

Don't sweat it. This site is a microcosm of society. Some nice some rude some who know a lot some who think they know a lot and don't some who are helpful some who are aholes even some who post thousands of times and presume to know your life and mock your statements from a high and mighty place. It is clear you love your son and want him to go to college and fulfill his dreams academically and on the diamond. You've gotten some good advice take it and ignore the rest

harbreakerr,

Everyone here has basically said the same thing regarding academics. Grades are priority #one, regardless of Juco or D1, D2, D3. Both 3FG & R B M gave you the facts. 2.0 may get him in, but he will have to keep it going.
You expressed your concern..."following your gut or your heart", as you put it, and "It's a reality check for both of us."

No one has been negative. Quite the contrary, all the posters encouraged supporting him academically, as well as his baseball interests.
You said, "Obviously I have not done as well in the grades department."

If he is already discouraged, as you say, then why set him up for possibly more disappointment?
Again, as you asked..."Will he benefit from being seen by colleges that won't touch him once they see his grades?"
That is something else you really need to think through.

Personally, I'd be inclined to "follow my gut". I'd concentrate on building his academic strengths, and improving the deficits to the best of his ability, as I suggested before.
My son faced similar academic challenges...I just made sure he was getting what he needed...not what a school administration wanted (since they get more Federal & State $$'s per student for Honors & AP classes)...My kids "acheivements" in the classroom were not for sale! He wasn't Honors/AP material & they knew it...Math & Science weren't his thing, but with lots of backup & support, he pulled through.

Any good coach would say, "practice/master/work on/get back to/don't forget...the fundamentals". That's exactly what all these posters are saying...
Education is the foremost fundamental. Then. whatever happens...happens.

Should you spend the "budgeted" $$'s for trip to Ga, "to be seen" (which may or may not prove to be good, considering grades)?

Back to fundamentals!

This thread is basically saying the same as the one you started on May 5...but now you're concerned about the expense of a trip to Ga., I guess...
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...481/m/9357038916/p/1

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
Don't sweat it. This site is a microcosm of society. Some nice some rude some who know a lot some who think they know a lot and don't some who are helpful some who are aholes even some who post thousands of times and presume to know your life and mock your statements from a high and mighty place. It is clear you love your son and want him to go to college and fulfill his dreams academically and on the diamond. You've gotten some good advice take it and ignore the rest

Who has given bad advice here and who has been rude and who is an ahole (speaking of rude)?

Is your post suggesting that a mom (baseballmom) gave her experienced advice (she wasn't throwing stones but understood what it is like to have a player with a learning disability) to another mom (hartbreakerr), who thinks that we don't understand where she is coming from (or maybe it is you who doesn't understand)?

Kudos to baseballmom for doing homework to see that this subject has been brought up before by poster (did you notice that, DAD), in this case the mom was asking about spending the $1800 to be seen by college coaches when her son isn't eligible to play for college coaches (at this time). Again, please point out what bad advice she got here? I think all of it (advice) was 100% spot on, but she knew what she was going to do from the beginning, didn't she? I really get a kick out of people who ask for advice, don't get what they want to hear and then turn on teh people who took their time to respond intelligently (in this case baseballmom).

This site is about helping parents and players to survive HS baseball and work towards the next level which for 99 1/2% (yes I used a half) is about going to college to play bb (and survive).

It doesn't matter if you are a 6'7" hard throwing pitcher or a 5'8" hard throwing one as well, NO 4 year coach will seriously recruit you with a 1.8 accumulative GPA (please note in another post the mom thought that since her son had a poor GPA for D1, perhaps D2 or D3 would be better?

Perhaps scouts will have more interest than college coaches, but at the end of the day you have to have some smarts to play this game as well as talent. It gets harder and harder as you climb the ladder.

That's probably why many teams prefer the more mature college player.

JMO

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Seems like you already knew what you were going to do. Why did you ask for advice?

Whether or not someone 'knows' what they are going to do, what harm is there in doing a gutcheck? Not sure why the need to assume the role of disciplinarian here. It's a free posting site. Free to post civil posts. Free to ignore them.

As to the OP's question and follow on, I would say if you have budgeted for this, then do it. One of my favorite pieces of advice received over the years has been, "Don't refuse a job you haven't been offered."

Sounds like the kid has talent. Let someone else tell him he can't play. In the meantime, remember this is a game and such a trip could constitute a wonderful life memory. Go!

Thats assuming "the role of disciplinarian?"

Boy, I am really confused. After some really well thought-out posts by a number of people, the OP came back with what seemed like the answers he/she already had and the same question popped into my head...'Why did he/she ask for advice (in the first place)?'

I don't see how this site works in earnest if the decision is already made but you ask anyways...and then responders gets labeled "aholes" for wondering why they wasted their time?

You won't have many parents sharing their experiences and what they learned themselves if this becomes the norm.

quote:

hartbreakerr said....Next time I'll think twice before asking for opinions on here. Didn't realize it would turn into defending myself.

baseballmom - Must be nice to live in a glass house. Not all kids are gifted in every way.

baseballmom,

Well said. Any college baseball coach worth his salt would tell the boy to work on things he needs to improve on and focus the young man on education.

hartbreakerr,

You asked for various opinions on a message board. You got it. Nobody has given you bad advice just different perspectives which is the absolute best part of this site. I can't tell you how many times I've posted or replied to something only to get a different perspective that I never considered. This is the best site in the world for baseball perspective, and everybody is pretty open with it. Do I agree with everybody...absolutely not, and I'm sure they would say the same thing about me. But I value their opinions, perspectives and experiences tremendously.

Go to the PGWWBA that you've already committed to financially. Enjoy it as it is a great experience. As I like to say....more college coaches per square inch than anywhere. You'll know what to do with regards to his education when you talk to the college coaches. Your son will figure it out quickly.

Best of luck.

I've always said if a kid is hitting .250 and getting a C in math spend the money on a math tutor not a hitting instructor. Now this thread plays out where a dad looks to spend $1,800 on baseball rather than money to help his son's poor grades. Where are the priorities? Is this kid lined up to be a high draft choice with a huge signing bonus out of high school?

If my kid had poor grades I would be looking for JuCo opportunities close to home where I can manage him out of fear he's not ready to be on his own as an adult. I would be spending the $1,800 on tutoring to get him ready for the next year of high school. ADD is not an excuse for poor grades. Many kids with ADD do well in school once the proper adjustments take place.

RE-read the other thread & you'll see posters whose sons faced hartbrr's sons' ADD/ ADHD issues:
ILVBB
DPElite99
BB247
Prime9
wbethea13

And BaseballmomandCEP & calisport, & others spoke about a "Juco plan", with Bbmom&CEP giving specific schools that offered programs geared toward ADD & ADHD.

Seems to me we've all done our duty to try to help...

I haven't read that you must choose between a tutor and the tournament so this statement is based upon you having the ability to handle this financially.

If that's the case, perhaps the two lessons here are really that you have a commitment to the team you have agreed to go with and even if your son can't benefit directly from this at the moment, he can learn that he still needs to support his team mates and honor his commitment.

The second lesson maybe in watching those around him attain what he aspires to. Spend the week discussing his grades and how to improve them so that he too can be considered a prospect. Perhaps he can learn about commitment to team and his schooling. The money I spent on baseball over the years has been an investment in every aspect of my son's life and who I want him to be. I don't understand bailing on a TEAM because it doesn't benefit your kid once you have committed to something.

Last, I agree, when you post on a message board for advice, don't be surprised when people offer opinions you don't want to hear. I don't think anyone here has been rude or attacking, simply providing you the feed back you requested.

So, at the risk of being mean, question. Why if he struggles so academically did you allow him to work himself into such a corner academically in honors classes? He simply isn't an honor student, there is no shame in that. Take a more active roll in his schooling and put him in a position to succeed. I'd say that's on you, not him or his ADD. You have experience in life and know him and what he can handle better then anyone so get active.

What about summer school to replace those D's and F's which must go into a gpa starting with 1? He needs you right now to step in and pay attention to that situation and not so much baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by calisportfan,

So, at the risk of being mean, question. Why if he struggles so academically did you allow him to work himself into such a corner academically in honors classes? He simply isn't an honor student, there is no shame in that. Take a more active roll in his schooling and put him in a position to succeed. I'd say that's on you, not him or his ADD. You have experience in life and know him and what he can handle better then anyone so get active.

What about summer school to replace those D's and F's which must go into a gpa starting with 1? He needs you right now to step in and pay attention to that situation and not so much baseball.

Amen to that!

What sort of advise was being sought in this thread? It seeme the priorities are reversed here but hey, it ain't my kid who's hanging on passing by the skin of its teeth.

I've got sound advise having turned a struggling elementary school kid struggling to getting C's to graduating HS with a 3.2 gpa while lettering in two sports to graduating college with high honors.

We saw the big picture years before he got to HS and got him on the right road. Struggling do late in the game, the obvious choice is focus strictly on schoolwork. But then again, it ain't my money so if East Cobb the answer, then good luck to him because with the current grades, he will need to impress pro scouts since college options are severely limited. Whatever tutoring he gets, it'll have to be more than just getting him to 2.0

Again the key is priorities

This post may come across as a bit rough but being a realist, I'm only giving the straight dope in that you would figure that getting the grades on solid footing would be priority one over dumping a considerable amount of loot in a tournament where the marks will eliminate just about every college opportunity

Not all of us get it right, especially the first time around. I know I didn't. I think advice can be helpful, but there is no sense in scolding someone for what has already happened.

I get very frustrated at my wife when she gets in the "You should of done something different" thinking. Heck, I already know that, tell me what to do now.

People, all of us, make mistakes. What happens today and tomorrow is much more important than what happened yesterday. IMO That is how we overcome the mistakes.

This post is not meant for anyone who has never made a mistake.

PG,
OK, won't pass it on to my wife then.

Oops! She married me. Oh well, only one mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Not all of us get it right, especially the first time around. I know I didn't. I think advice can be helpful, but there is no sense in scolding someone for what has already happened.

I get very frustrated at my wife when she gets in the "You should of done something different" thinking. Heck, I already know that, tell me what to do now.

People, all of us, make mistakes. What happens today and tomorrow is much more important than what happened yesterday. IMO That is how we overcome the mistakes.

This post is not meant for anyone who has never made a mistake.

Mistakes..We all make 'em.....No question about it....How else would we learn to do things better the next time if we weren't perfect... However, if you can take a step back and not get so caught up on your kids baseball exploits since parents tend to see their kids better than objective observers, assess what things are needed to put the player in the best position to get himself a good education while trying to play ball and see what's important, it might be easier to make better decisions.

I think the root of the issue in general is parents with kids who play sports will spend thousands for baseball lessons to improve their game but won't spend a nickel on a tutor because it's too expensive if the kid needs help in math or english.

And the reality is baseball players are a dime-a-dozen and there's so much competition out there and the ones who do succeed and make something from baseball are the cream of the crop and most importantly, have the grades so doors aren't shut in their face.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
I've always said if a kid is hitting .250 and getting a C in math spend the money on a math tutor not a hitting instructor. Now this thread plays out where a dad looks to spend $1,800 on baseball rather than money to help his son's poor grades. Where are the priorities? Is this kid lined up to be a high draft choice with a huge signing bonus out of high school?

If my kid had poor grades I would be looking for JuCo opportunities close to home where I can manage him out of fear he's not ready to be on his own as an adult. I would be spending the $1,800 on tutoring to get him ready for the next year of high school. ADD is not an excuse for poor grades. Many kids with ADD do well in school once the proper adjustments take place.

It's HER son, I think I mentioned that it was a mom.

Not to you in particular, but wonder if people really pay attention to other posts in the topic before they respond?!?!

I agree with you, never blame poor grades on a learning disability. Never. From a former teacher of learning disabled, seen too many parents blame others when it wasn't necessary.

Again, I think baseballmom (so did calisportfan) gave some great advice.

From one mom to another.

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:

Mistakes..We all make 'em.....No question about it....How else would we learn to do things better the next time if we weren't perfect... However, if you can take a step back and not get so caught up on your kids baseball exploits since parents tend to see their kids better than objective observers, assess what things are needed to put the player in the best position to get himself a good education while trying to play ball and see what's important, it might be easier to make better decisions.

I think the root of the issue in general is parents with kids who play sports will spend thousands for baseball lessons to improve their game but won't spend a nickel on a tutor because it's too expensive if the kid needs help in math or english.

And the reality is baseball players are a dime-a-dozen and there's so much competition out there and the ones who do succeed and make something from baseball are the cream of the crop and most importantly, have the grades so doors aren't shut in their face.

I agree with you 100%!

quote:

Originally posted by hartbreakerr:
[QUOTE]Why are his grades low?QUOTE]

He had a really rough sophomore year that brought his grade down. This year was much better. Also, I have not allowed him to get his license until he keeps his grades up or gets a job. I think reality is setting in for him now and he's just discouraged. I don't know anymore. It really sucks to see a talented kid like him give up the game.

That statement right there sounds like he's asking (screaming) for academic help! He sees the writing on the wall. And understands he's behind the 8 ball.

Wonder where his father fits into the equation? Are there male mentors in his life who are able to offer
him some perspective: grades vs a game?


His school & HS Coach allowed him to play with a 1.4 GPA last year, 1.9 this year? That doesn't make sense to me...