Sports Parents

Of course there is a lot of truth in that article.

But I think the author is off base in implicitly contending that what the child wants at a particular moment should serve as the goal for how a parent should behave.

The fact that a child doesn't want to have a lesson imparted at a particular time doesn't mean the parent shouldn't push through that and do a parent's job anyway. Not talking about berating, not talking about attacking coaches, or anything like that. It's just a fact that sometimes parents have to tell kids things they don't want to hear, and failure to do so is an abdication of duty.

Good luck. I hope you never get to the spot where your kid ends up being pretty good and your spouse walks around soaking in adulation about it. Once the kid figures this out it can cause a serious problem in family relationships and their desire to play the game.

It is not that.....my wife wants to evaluate/coach/correct mistakes right after the event or on the way home. I think those should wait until we are at home in a practice setting.

Think about your own life if you compete in anything or have competed. You do not want to be corrected immediately after competing. You want that to sink in and do some self evaluation....then later you can watch video, review, make adjustment, etc.

Sure there will be some exceptions to this, but in general I think what the article said is true (the kids are not lying)....the thing that the kids hated the most was the ride home.

I think the author hits it pretty much on the head. A parent should sometimes bite his/her tongue when it comes to critiquing the game or performance while the kid is still in game mood.

I think a lot of what the article says is what we all know about the do's and don'ts of sports parents.

Life lessons or addressing bad behavior are different animals.

Let the kid be a kid. some parents get all bent out of shape because their kid strikes out or makes an error or the team loses a game. If the worst thing you experience with your kid is a poor performance in an athletic contest you are pretty lucky.

I thought that section about the ride home was the part of the article that was most incorrect.

The timing of what you say is important. Certain things need to be addressed while they are fresh and indeed, while the player is still "in game mode," as opposed to having mentally moved on to something else. The player may very well not like it, but they also don't like you bringing things up later. The only thing the player likes is never, ever being told he's done wrong or needs to improve.

To me the key is not postponing a necessary discussion, it's how you phrase it. I am sure that many of those rides home are brow beating and berating. There is never a time for that, unless perhaps outright misbehavior (as opposed to a game performance issue) was involved.

IMHO a big problem with today's youth coaching is the Barney the Dinosaur approach that so emphasizes positive reinforcement that no one ever knows he made a mistake, much less learns from his mistakes. The key is not to be stingy with praise when it is deserved, but also to have praise made all the more credible by establishing that if and when something goes wrong you are going to get at that topic, too. And in between, there are also discussions that are neither positive nor negative, just discussions about game situations and how you can learn from them.

Somehow we have got to get back to knowing the difference between constructive criticism and destructive verbal abuse. The latter is despicable, the former is absolutely necessary. Even if your kid is not one who cares about moving up the ladder in baseball, he has to learn how to receive constructive criticism and use it to improve himself, and he has to learn that no matter what you do, the world will always require you to improve yourself.

In my workplace I've seen more than enough people who have shortcomings, resist correction and end up stagnating or worse, getting fired. I would appreciate it if we would do what we can to stop growing people like this on purpose.

MidloDad...before you get too personal and tell me that I will raise a stagnating or worse kid because I am not going to critique my kid's performance on the ride home, let's just agree that there may be more than one way to get what we want accomplished.

How about this? Have your son ask his team mates what was the thing they liked least.

Midlo, I am a big believer in addressing short comings and admitting weaknesses in my son's game. No one is, and was, more critical of his game than him and I. If you don't admit a flaw/weakness then there is apparently nothing to fix or get better at...a recipe for a short career. However, I think when and where you do it is important.

If he was ****ed off after a bad game I would acknowledge the bad game in a non antagonist way and drop it. I knew as well as he did that he sucked that day, but I'm sure he didn't need to hear it from me while we were walking away from the field.

Again, I agree with the author that there is a right time and a wrong time to address failure. The important thing is that the failure or weakness is addressed and worked on.

quote:

I agree with the author that there is a right time and a wrong time to address failure.

and there is a right way to do it. I remember many years ago watching my son play maybe 13 or 1 years old. A ball was hit to an outfielder and he dropped it. I did not know his father was sitting next to me. As he came off the field he looked the fathers way and the father said "dont even look at me". It took everything in my being not to say something. I had to move as the longer I stayed the hotter I became. that happened close to 20 years ago and I still remember it.

d8,

I'm not attacking you personally. Though looking back now it sounds like you came here hoping to get validation for your point of view so that you could win an argument with your wife. Sorry to disappoint.

Just to be clear, I don't ever see any reason to harp on a kid because he struck out, made an error, etc. All those things happen in baseball.

I do think that if the kid is sulking over having done one of those things, it's perfectly acceptable, even recommended, to let him know then and there that his attitude is counter productive and that he should cut it out.

If he threw to the wrong base, chased balls out of the zone, watched strikes down the middle, or failed to hustle, then these are "teachable moments" (I hate that phrase but can't think of a better one right now) and you shouldn't let those moments pass by without imparting the lesson when it'll have the most lasting impact.

If he lost his cool, used profanity, threw his helmet, spoke negatively about an umpire, coach or teammate, the time to address those things is right then and there. The fact that he doesn't want to hear it is all the more reason he should hear from the voice of authority right then and there, so that he knows that there are external standards in his life and that those standards will be enforced by persons whose authority outranks his.

are you guys talking baseball or parenting here ?



and how abouthis coach---is he not in the picture ?

It must be baseball season. An article like this comes out every spring. Baseball isn't the youth sport with problems. They all have problems.

The first thing when analyzing and critiquing these kinds of articles is seeing the article from the same platform. The way you treat an eight year old is different than a thirteen year old which is different than a high school college prospect. Is your kid a star or mediocre? Is he into the sport or the social aspect of being there? How many kids of posters, given the nature of this board had bad games at eight years old?

As someone who ran leagues in baseball, softball and boys and girls basketball I saw kids getting their game taken apart from the moment the coach let them go. These were kids who became high school athetes. These were kids whose parents weren't high school athletes and wished their kids could be.

The worst parent I ever saw with his kid didn't get past LL. I new the reason this kid wanted to come over to play with my son after games was to avoid the post game analysis in the car. This kid acrtually said, "Thank God it's over" when the last out of the season was over.

I've seen parents who strut around at games as if their kid's accomplishments were a medal on their chest. If their kid fails the medal is tarnished. These people tend to be tough on their kids.

In the preteen years my kids and I never had in car post game analysis unless they asked for it. I remeber my son saying, "I sucked today" after a LL game. When I asked if he wanted to discuss it he responded, "I didn't say I suck. I said I sucked today. I'll be fine next game." There's no need to analyze that.

By the teen years my kids wanted to discuss the games as soon as they got in the car. The discussion usually went into dinner. My kids learned enough about analyzing hitting we would have hitting instructions through dinner.

From me initiating conversation I've always tried to handle my kids the same way I handled a post game talk with the team as a coach. Win or lose I would say there are things we need to do better. We'll discuss them at the next practice.

When my son was ten his travel team upset the best travel s0ccer team to win the season championship. Our post game conversation went like this ...

ME: What did the coach say after the game?
SON: He said we played well. What's for lunch?
ME: He must hav said more than that.
SON: He said we held our positions well. Can I have a PlayStation for Christmas?

That's how fast preteens can change gears.

quote:

The worst parent I ever saw with his kid didn't get past LL.

Here we go.

Our kid is his own toughest critic, never needed to point out the obvious, he was already all too aware of it himself, privately. Sometimes, makes it even hard to point out the positives, after a really good game... "Telling me only the positive stuff after a game...isn't gonna help me with where I need to improve my game"
So, car rides home can be quiet. We just kinda keep quiet, follow his lead, and then respond when he starts to open up about the game.

One of the toughest things to witness, is how some Dad's, publicly berate their sons, immediately following a game. And they don't wait to get to the family car, or even walking to the car...they are often standing just outside the dugout... You can just see it all over the players faces.
But, the Dad, won't have to worry. He probably won't have to painstakingly suffer thru too many more sporting events... His kid is failing 4 subjects, and will likely be ineligible for Spring Baseball & Fall Football!
Wonder why...?

quote:

In the preteen years my kids and I never had in car post game analysis unless they asked for it. I remeber my son saying, "I sucked today" after a LL game. When I asked if he wanted to discuss it he responded, "I didn't say I suck. I said I sucked today. I'll be fine next game." There's no need to analyze that.

By the teen years my kids wanted to discuss the games as soon as they got in the car. The discussion usually went into dinner. My kids learned enough about analyzing hitting we would have hitting instructions through dinner.

From me initiating conversation I've always tried to handle my kids the same way I handled a post game talk with the team as a coach. Win or lose I would say there are things we need to do better. We'll discuss them at the next practice.

From my perspective that article about as accurate as it gets and RJM's comments ring very true! The hardest thing for a Dad coach to do is to refrain from coaching on the way home. Just as you do with the other players, let it go until the next practice session.

The other's key parental phrase; "I love watching you play" rings true for me. It took me awhile to learn but now that he's a College player I see it in his eyes even today when I use those very words! Although, it's usually " I love watching you swing the bat, it's a thing of beauty." I must credit my wife for teaching me, many years ago, how to be a better sports parent. She may have written the article? The feedback from athletes over three decades is difficult to disagree with.

When my son was playing the last game of his soph season it was a must win game to make districts. The team was down one, two outs with my son on first. Everyone at the park knew he was going. The pitcher threw an inning to first. A couple of pitches later the pitcher picked him off to end the season. There were parents screaming at my son. They forgot he singled to keep the game going.

He didn't come out of the dugout for a fifteen minutes after the rest of the team had left. When he came out I tossed him some LifeSavers. He laughed. He stayed in the dugout because of the parents yelling at him. He wanted to make sure they were gone. Imagine what it's like for a little kid to get verabally berated by a parent who matters to them.

RJM,

As a dad with a sophomore playing baseball in the spring, if parents started yelling at my kid because of the situation you described, I am not sure how my temper would handle the situation. I know **** sure I would not let my kid take it alone.

To be clear, I am not indicting anything you did as a Dad.....maybe it should be the start of a new thread.

Most of the baseball parents that I have been associated with are pretty classy and when there is a problem parent, I find another place to sit. That said, baseball is a game of failure, other than those parent's kids who played with your son.

There was a circle of four guys who thought they knew more baseball than anyone. THey held coourt every game off by themselves. They criticized coaching and players. They thought their kids were studs. Perpetual losing was every other player's fault. With an infusion of young talent the team was winning for the first time in years.

The amusing thing was these guys didn't know how much they didn't know. They mocked showcases. They mocked travel ball. Only one of their kids played D3 ball in an obscure program.

When the level of ignorance is that high you tune it out. The sideline was much better the following two years after these dads were gone.

Sometimes I just want to give guys like that a beating, but I end up being the one with the blood dripping from my mouth for biting my tongue.

I teach my kid to act like he's done it before and act with humility when he's had success. We as parents should act like our kid has done it before as well.

I am sure things were much better when the 4 guys were gone. I just don't do well when people mess with my family.

quote:

Originally posted by Proud Dad 24:
Sometimes I just want to give guys like that a beating, but I end up being the one with the blood dripping from my mouth for biting my tongue.

I teach my kid to act like he's done it before and act with humility when he's had success. We as parents should act like our kid has done it before as well.

I am sure things were much better when the 4 guys were gone. I just don't do well when people mess with my family.

When my son was a senior there were many parents happy two of these guys younger sons didn't make varsity. Not because of the kids. But to keep the dads at the JV field.

I have to admit...I think I am lucky to have found this web site when my son was about 12 years old...I believe this a site helped me from becoming "one of those dads"....not saying I was perfect after finding this siteand never slipped up like this article mentions but reading the experiences of people on this site helped keep things in persective.

Has made the journey ( the ups and downs) more enjoyable.

Parents upset coach wouldn't stop game to celebrate nine year old son's 200th goal. Another article states the twins have already been in several programs. The kids are learning tell the coach to stuff it and change teams by age nine. That is if the leagues aren't telling the parents to leave. The family has been kicked out of the league in their town.

They say Holly Foglietta is an overbearing hockey mother who has at times tried to interfere with the way the coaches run the team, and who by making false allegations created a situation where lawyers are now representing people on both sides of the dispute.

story

Run Lynn Hockey, Run!!

I give credit to all coaches, just for being out there. Who'd want to deal with this stuff? Lawyers, emails, league office, newspapers... All they wanna do is coach. The worst part is that the kids they wanna coach get stuck in the middle of these silly things.

My son had a friend in HS who would not go home after a bad outing. He was expected to hit a HR every at bat.

His dad would throw a fit if he didn't perform and leave before the game ended and once I heard that he did tell his son to not come home one night. For all of you folks that show those emotions at a game, you are not welcome to stay around, go find your own corner as this makes everyone uncomfortable.

The father's behavior was noticed by scouts and coaches and by the fall of the players senior year he had no offer. His father pulled a few strings and he landed up at an ACC program only to be released from off the field issues and the same a few years later at an SEC school. Son said it was really sad, as he progresses he reminds us often his friend would have likely made it to the ML level by now, if Dad hadn't gotten in the way and made him miserable. You learn to support your athlete through the good and bad. You love them for who they are, not how they perform. Understand that this is a GAME and for most a preparation for life beyond that game, I believe in a teaching moment, at the right time at the right place. I get a kick out of the folks whose sons/daughters want to give up the game and all they do is blame the coaches.

Most coaches that really know their stuff know when is a good time to approach the player and discuss what needs to be worked on. Why can't parents learn to do the same?


BTW, this player was playing on an elite national travel team when our kids were still playing local travel ball in middle school. He was that good, but in reality they should have left him alone to play with friends in the off season. They also sent him to one of the elite private baseball programs in our area (hint has churned out top round picks in our area). All he wanted to do was play at the local HS and they finally relented.

This story along with some others in this topic are rather extreme, parents have a tendency to be a bit more involved than they should but I think in reality it is not unusual. There are levels of involvment, the line gets drawn when parents become abusive when a player doesn't perform to their expectations, or starts telling the coach or AD how to run their program.

As far as the ride home, as a youth player, the ride home, no matter what the outcome of the game,meant dinner at the local wing resturant with fellow teammates, the specifics were left to another day. As your player gets further and further into the game you learn that he has to work out his issues with those that coach and manage him, and unless asked you are there to listen. We have often given advice when not asked, it's hard not to, most parents know when it is time to let go, some never do.

The kids will hate the ride home at any level, if all he/she has to listen to is what they did wrong, what the team did wrong and how the coach should resign.

One more thing, I don't know about anyone else, but I am so tired of hearing about the coach from he ll your kids play or played for. As your players go through life, they are going to come up against all types of people from that hot spot, coaches, teachers, professors, bosses. Looking back, some of those people might even have a far more positive affect on your children's lives than you might realize.

Well said TPM!

Very good post TPM! 99% of the time when a player blames anyone but himself for not performing the way he expects to perform he is just making excuses. The more excuses made, the lower the percentage of long term success.