Stanford All-Star Camp session 1

Headed there for All-Star Camp #2 later this month.  Am curious to hear your thoughts about the experience.

Fire away!!  Please.

I have a very different perspective with my 2016 than I did with my 2012, but I also think the camp has changed.

I found there to be far fewer "observing" coaches than in the past.  And the list of schools attending was somewhat mixed.  2016's team had a lot more underclassmen than 2012's did four years ago.  2016 and his teammates each got 4 swings on the sunken diamond because they were running behind schedule.  It seemed like a lot more players than I remembered.

We just finished Headfirst in Sacramento prior to Stanford All Star.  In my opinion, I would do HF Sac (and definitely HF Long Island) instead of Stanford.

Stanford is still a unique experience.  Living with other guys in the dorm.  Much more instruction than most camps.  But for pure exposure...Stanford does not come close to Headfirst for an academic kid.  Just my opinion.

Branson,

Interesting.  Would you choose attending Headfirst Sac + Headfirst L.I. over attending Headfirst Sac + Stanford?

HeadFirst... the best place for academic high school baseball players to receive instruction, feedback ... 

Do they define what that means anywhere? Seems like they accept anyone willing to pay. No?

Yes.  Because the coaches on my 2016's list were overwhelmingly at HF Sac (and will be at HF Long Island) AND the ability to engage all those coaches over two days was vastly superior to the four days at Stanford.

2016 had 18 coaches on his list at HF Sac.  11 were at Stanford (only a couple of those weren't at HF Sac).  He met 15 of the 18 at Sacramento and had discussions with them on and/or off the field.  At Stanford he talked to 3 of the coaches on his list.  The other 8 he didn't see at all.  My guess is some of those saw him, but I can pretty much guarantee not all did as they were coaching other teams or stationed at other fields or running different practice/showcase stations.

The showcase portion of Headfirst is also superior in my opinion.  It is very similar to a PG showcase with position specific workout, timed 60, batting and bat speed, etc.  Almost every coach watches every batter and every position player showcase.  Games are coached by different college coaches each game so a player automatically gets to meet multiple coaches.  And the games are limited to 2 fields at Sac and 4 on Long Island and are physically clustered together. 

At Stanford the showcase portion is divided across multiple days.  Not all coaches watch all events.  Games are scattered across numerous high school and college fields.  Your player is on one team with the same coach for all games.  That coach writes a review of your player. 

My 2012 was reviewed by a large public university D1 coach.  Said he had only high school ability.  My 2012 had over 30 D1 offers including getting calls that July 1st from five coaches that were currently at his Stanford camp.  That coach had his opinion which is fine, but the Stanford camp structure limits the player's exposure to other coaches.  Very different than what you'd see at a PG Showcase or Headfirst.

2016 Dad,

They all accept anyone willing to pay!  Sad, but true.

Go where the coaches on your son's vetted list of schools will be.  That's the best advice I've ever received here.

One thing I've noticed right off the bat, is that Headfirst does a great job of publicizing what coaches, not just schools, but what specific coach from what school will be at their camps.  Great website and communication in that regard.

Stanford All-Star does not post the coach/school list on their website, that I've ever found.  Someone please correct me on that if I'm wrong.  I must say, as an easterner the list at Stanford, of realistic eastern academic schools, pales in comparison to HF's.  Would like to see Pepperdine, or USC, or U of San Diego attend but I guess not. 

I was blown away by HF - Long Island last year.  Phenomenal camp.  Will be very hard for Stanford All-Star II to beat it.  Thankfully we are going to Stanford Camp for Bay Area R&R as much as we are going for baseball.

Something tells me we'll be back on Long Island next year. 

how many kids are attending the Headfirst and Stanford All Star camps?  Just trying to get an idea.

 Not to hijack the thread but 2017 is at Stanford Future Stars now and there are about 200 kids on 12 teams.  Three games each. Same coach each game.  Two games for each team at the Sunken Diamond, and one game for each team at Palo Alto HS.  2017 wrote to about 12 coaches that were going to be there, which we determined from a list of schools provided by Stanford, and gleaned the RC's and HC's names/addresses from the school websites.  Got generic replies from most, but a couple of more personal ones.

Son was shy today so didn't introduce himself even when he had a chance to.  We talked about it and he said he doesn't want to be shy tomorrow.  

Best opportunities for players is to talk to the coaches running the practices and drills and the opposing coaches in the games, plus obviously his own coach, who fortunately is at one of the schools he's targeting. 30-35 schools at Future Stars camp.

Tres Arboles, thanks for your original post.  This kind of info is really helpful for people trying to decide where to spend their $.

We just returned with our 2016 (RHP) from both HF Sacramento and Stanford All Star Camp.  We also had gone to HF Long Island last year.  We knew that all of the schools that my son is interested in would be at one or both HF Sac and Stanford, so we thought it made sense to spend the time and money for him to be seen multiple times by those schools.  My son wrote all of the coaches at those schools the week before we left for California.  All of the coaches were able to watch him pitch in Sacramento.  Not all of the coaches at Stanford were able to watch my son at Stanford as some of the coaches were working different fields than where he pitched.  Luckily, two of the coaches from his top schools were available and did attend the game he pitched.  Honestly, if he had not contacted those coaches ahead of time, Stanford would most likely have been a waste of time and money as he is a pitcher only and he pitched only one game and there was only about 8 coaches at the site where he pitched (and I understand this was actually a lot more coaches than were at some of the other sites other than Sunken Diamond).  He did get to pitch 5 innings on the day he pitched at Stanford and I thought this was helpful as the coaches could really see how he handled a number of innings. 

One of the things I really like about HF is that they share the evaluations of the pitchers with all of the coaches at HF the night between the two days.  That way, if a coach is interested in a player based on his evaluation, the coach can watch the player pitch the next day since all pitchers pitch two days.  Even if the coaches aren't able to watch the player pitch, the coach at least has the evaluation of the player and may still follow up.  I am not aware if Stanford shares pitching evaluations with the coaches.  Does anyone know if they do?  If not, if your son is a pitcher only, he needs to make sure he tells the coaches from the schools he is interested in where and when he will be pitching because he has only one opportunity to be seen (unlike the position players who are seen every day).  If you can attend only one showcase and you are a pitcher, I would recommend HF.  If the choice is between HF Sac and HF Long Island, the advantage to HF Long Island is that they have a lot more schools there than HF Sac.  The timing, though, is tough.  While August is great for DIII schools, I think it might be a little late for DI schools.      

Nothing but Excellent things to say about Stanford Baseball Camp. My 2016 did futures camp last year and it clearly jump started the recruiting process.

In my opinion, Coach Stotz and Stanford created the gold standard for camps. They have been doing this for approximately 30 years.

That isn't to say that Head First isn't as good. No actually HF has clearly incorporated a few components like encouraging player / coach contact and introductions. But I think its worth noting that Stanford did it first.

Clearly more big D-1 baseball factory type schools at Stanford. HF tends to have way more small schools and D-3 schools. Which can be a great thing if that is what your son is looking for.

As far as coaches formally sharing information. I know my son heard from several Coaches that DID NOT see him that he played well there. College coaches all talk and all know one another. If you go to dinner in Palo Alto you will see clusters of Coaches from all different schools sitting together at Dinner chatting. Ultimately , I like what HF does getting 16-17 year olds to stick their hand out and introduce themselves. However, I would argue that no amount of schmoozing will get a kid a roster spot. College baseball from the recruiting perspective is a 'Don't call us.....we'll call you" thing. That is a fact.

One more thing about interaction with Coaches, I may be preaching to the converted here but if you are a parent DO NOT speak to the coaches under any circumstances.

And also keep in mind that NCAA contact rules are still in effect with 2017's

My son did speak to several coaches at camp but on Sept 1 last year ( 1st day of contact per NCAA ) he received 6 letters from Schools at Stanford. None of which he spoke to at Camp.

There were approx 200 kids at futures camp last year. If you crunch the numbers you can expect maybe 10-15% tops are going to show well enough to suggest they can play NCAA baseball...And I'm being generous in my math. So, that is approx 20-30 kids that will stand out. Know this: All coaches from every school there will know those kids names regardless if they emailed in advance or introduced themselves. And keep in mind. I had a "You never play unannounced" rule at my house so tons of emails always went out here. But i suppose my point is. If they like your son at camp they will find him and they will make their intentions CLEAR.

In the end of the day, Stanford and HF are money well spent. I personally believe that those camps ( if your son is academically inclined) and on campus individual college camps are the only way to go.

thanks for your thoroughly helpful post, Strained!

just want clarification: because of NCAA rules if our 2017 will hear back from coaches at all (which I realize is not a guarantee) it won't be until after Sept 1? Should he still try to meet coaches at camp?  He's currently at the futures camp and has contacted many coaches ahead of time via email,but has only introduced himself to one or two coaches.  Making me fret.

That is correct. Sept 1 2015 for a 2017 Grad. They can chat at camp but there are restrictions as to what an on field coach ( Working the camp) and what an 'observer' Coach can say. It can seem complex but you can can google 'NCAA contact rules' and get a better picture of what it all means. I truly like seeing kids introduce themselves ( I made mine do it) But once again , don't fret. If he has a good showcase they will notice and his performance will be documented. And on the flip side: If he doesn't show well. No big deal! 'On to the next event' is what I say. They learn stuff even if they do not play as well as expected. My son's first big D-1 camp he got in the car afterwards and said " Wow....These guys are REALLY good" Mission accomplished. He got an idea of what it will take to play at the next level.

Lot's of observations that mirror my own, so I am glad to have "opened the floor" rather than just dumpingmy opinions.  

The camp is a fantastic experience for kids that have never had to manage themselves much. Staying in the dorms requires the boys to manage the day, feed and rest themselves, and then drop their bags and show-out without mom or dad steering the ship. Althought brief (3 nights on their own), this is a massive experience for many boys.

I was surprised at the number of 2017's at the camp as I was informed and believed that this was a camp mainly for rising seniors. In part, this lowered the level of play a bit, and pitching in particular was less competitive than I expected.  While not exhaustive, I watched enough game play to see about 24 kids pitch in competition. I saw 2 kids over 83 MPH on the mound (88 and 86 respectively and luckily my son faced and hit both of these pitchers).

I observed very little of the "practice" activities off of Sunken Diamond. But what I saw looked great, especially stuff the boys were taught about physical recovery, stretching, etc, that was apparently taught by one of the Stanford trainers. Work in the cages was par and some was videoed for camper use.

As far as exposure, I too noticed far fewer "observing" coaches than I expected. Also worth noting, if your son has been corresponding with a coach that is working at the camp, but not his "games coach," being seen by those coaches is a matter of luck, timing, and coincidence. Alarmingly, we have received several "we couldn't see you but in talking to other coaches we learned you showed extremely well..please come to our camp" emails following the camp.

As far as interaction with coaches, outside of game coach and a few of the Stanford staff working different modules of the practices, son had no interactions. He did hear back from his game coach immediately, but mainly to let him know when he would receive his write-up.

As far as off-the-field interaction with coaches, I could not avoid overhearing conversations between parents and coaches that I considered utterly embarassing. I've been told that recruiters sometimes cringe when approached by mom or dad, so I avoid them all. But this did not stop one mom from flirting with a coach while boasting about her son (who just at that moment was on the mound sitting 77MPH). These were exceptions as most parents were more interested in watching the field. Or in our case, simply leaving when the daily game was done and heading up to Sonoma to taste wine with old friends or sliding over to Half Moon Bay for a dinner and a sunset.

One of the coaches working the camp was my son's first professional pitching teacher and a good one. He's coaching D1 now and encouraged us(way back when son was 13) to put this camp on our list for rising-senior summer. And I am glad I did as my son really benefited from staying in the dorms and he showed very well.  But I am pretty sure that unless a certain D1 that is following him asks him to come back down for another look, we're done with college camps.

My 2017 was there and enjoyed himself. He also did well (which probably increased the enjoyment factor). He will be at HF on the Island in August, so we can offer more of a comparison then.  A few quick observations from afar:

- he liked staying in the dorms. Because the price includes room and board (unlike HF) it is a bargain, if I can actually say that.   

- he had at least 10 colleges watching him pitch, not at Sunken Diamond.  So there was definitely truth to what we read here that coaches go to the other fields.

- the camp was overwhelmingly 2016s, but he did not feel out of place nor bring down the quality of play (he was one of top guys on his team).

- he is receiving quite a few more than normal college camp prospect camp invites.  Not sure if it is because it is that time of year, he is on the usual suspects mailing lists, related to his summer team or due to this camp. A few of the emails said they saw him at Stanford, but communication with a 2017 is indeed limited to camp info so there was not much else there except they want to get more eyes on him from their staff etc. One follow up email was from one of his top choice schools so we were really pleased about that.

Sounds like the HC-Sac and Stanford camps are similar to what they were when my 2013 attended.  2013 put a lot of effort into sending emails in advance, following up with trying to meet and talk with coaches for his top schools.  That part was much easier to accomplish at HC.  Some coaches sent lots of emails, others none at all -- in the end that was pretty meaningless.  Ultimately, though, the college he attended -- an Ivy -- saw him two consecutive summers at Stanford.  They never talked to him or sent a letter.  Out of the blue about 2 weeks after the camp, 2013 got a phone call from the coach asking to make a home visit. There is a lot to be said for going where you are wanted -- and it is VERY CLEAR when you are really wanted.  As 2013's travel coach told us, "You'll know when you're loved."  And I agree with the advice above about how parents should not talk with the coaches.  I saw some ridiculous parents running around with color resumes and DVDs of their sons and trying to do a sales job on coaches -- embarrassing to see.

Very well said.

Just want to highlight this quote again and add a few details (Also, anything I write here is just my opinion based on my personal experience)

One of the biggest mistakes parents and kids make in the recruiting process is over estimating interest from prospective schools. When a school is serious about offering your son a roster spot they make their intentions CLEAR. There is no ambiguity whatsoever. There is a specific process and time line to recruiting.Sort of a 3 step process:

1) FOLLOW

2) PROSPECT

3) RECRUIT

FOLLOW: A Follow receives emails regarding upcoming camps from baseball programs. Sort of generic mass email type wording and info addressed to your son. This type of email is sent out to hundreds of players at big programs.

PROSPECT : A prospect receives phone calls and Texts from the recruiting coordinator. Also, HS coach has been contacted. Also email but personalized. Asking specific questions about sons schedule, HS performance, HS report cards, Standardized test scores/results. The main thing to remember is the TELEPHONE. If your son is a 2016 not receiving phone calls or texts he is NOT a prospect. RC's CALL THEIR PROSPECTS! 2017 grads are different . But a 2017 prospects HS coach will have been phoned and spoken to at length.

RECRUIT: A recruit is offered a guaranteed roster spot (Through the spring regular season ) at a min of 25% scholarship.

The big mistake parents and players make is they think FOLLOW means PROSPECT. That is a potentially fatal mistake that wastes time and energy. Parents need to get  players to qualify interest! Players NOT Parents. Never contact a RC or HC if you are a parent ( The only exception would be a quick confirmation of interest if you were to have to fly 3,000 miles to a school. If there was a serious financial consideration) If a school is speaking with you and you are for example a RHP ask the RC "Where do I rank on the depth chart for RHP's in the 2016 class?" and follow up with " How many RHP's do you expect to recruit in that class"? RC's will be crystal clear in their responses. Also, if there is a particular school where you want to be a prospect and are only a follow ask about it. Ask : " Am I a follow or a prospect in the 2016 class"? . These are fair questions that will be answered directly by schools but unfortunately most parents or kids are afraid to ask. There is seemingly a sense of security with the incoming emails regarding camps and program updates and players and parents do not want to rock the boat. But what they do not know is that there are players that already know what I'm typing here and THEY are doing it. Gotta vet this stuff and figure out what is real and what is not. It's really important. Also, a final note on PROSPECT. When you get the OFFER know this: After the RC hangs up with you he is calling his next choice. So, always ask " What is the deadline on this offer"? Even if you get a deadline date. The RC probably still will call his next in line to 'check in' in case you decline.

Parents try to remember that these roster spots are coveted. What are the numbers? less than 3% of HS kids play NCAA ball. So, this recruiting machine is not kind. It is flat out BUSINESS. These RC's and learning institutions they work for are interested in the BEST players that will help them WIN. Period.

wow.  thanks. So, if 2017's coach hasn't heard diddly, the 2017 is likely a follow?  How much time does a 2017 have before being a follow is all he's going to be?

DM me

sent DM

Strained has some great insight here.  I share this experience, primarily with my 2012 who ended up with about 30 D1 offers.  And it was his experience and not necessarily universal to all...

I'd quibble a little bit in that clearly not every "recruit" is offered 25% as the roster needs to be filled out with a number of guys who get $0.  Some recruits are going to get a lot more than 25%, some will get $0, some schools have zero athletic money to give even at D1, not all schools are funded at 11.7 at D1 or 9.0 at D2, etc.

I wholeheartedly concur that a player needs to ask where he stands.  For 2016's, that's right now.  Some will already know.  Most will not.  That means the 2016's need to be making phone calls and asking where they fit with each program on their list...presuming they don't know exactly.  That's true whether the school is D1 or D2 or D3...doesn't matter.

A player's standing can change over time...my 2012 was a prospect to some schools in July.  He became a recruit in September when those programs' top "recruits" decided to go elsewhere.

A player needs to continue to stay present with the coaching staffs of schools on his vetted list.  Calls, emails, showcases, video, etc.  A player also, as noted, needs to realize when he's not a prospect or a recruit.  Move on.  Get focused on the "right" schools for the player.

Glad Branson took the time to post about the money. He is correct. Some programs 0% some 50% but keep in mind 25% is NCAA Minimum for a 'Baseball Money Spot' and as Branson also accurately pointed out some schools are not 'Fully Funded' which means they do not have the budget for 11.5 scholarships. You'd be surprised how many programs ( Pretty big name schools) are at 9.5 But lastly, keep in mind a 'Guaranteed Roster Spot Through Spring" happens all the time without baseball money. This is not a 'Walk On " spot. Guaranteed roster spot works for guys getting a lot of financial aid ( Financial Aid can and is charged to the baseball dept...but that is another post ). But it is always best to have the baseball Dept with some 'Skin in the game' with a freshman player. All circumstances are different. This is a case by case evaluation