Stanford Camp?

Bad form replying to my own message, but looking for anyone else who is HERE!

Many people seem to have gone to HF CA and then here!

My 2018 didn't do HF, but we are at Stanford.  Just soaking it all in and really happy I am one of the lucky dads today that gets to watch his son play ball and not have to go to work today!  I guess this is summer vacation. Never posted before but I enjoy this forum and the various insights from everyone.  Will be at Canada JC  today!  

Please post your observations and experiences.  My 2018 will be at July Stanford All Star Camp

First Day-  checked in and got and info.  Luggage drop off then hit the field for testing.  60 yard, medicine ball throw, vertical jump and shuttle run.  Little warm up.  As kids would arrive they would arrange them in groups of 15-20 players.  My 2018 was slower than normal, but appeared to throw the med ball and vertical jump very well.  2-4 isnt bad, right?  Hindsight...warm up a little on your own prior to starting. 

2018 and friend were done by noon.  Lunch provided. They went over to batting cages and hit for about an hour or so.  No instruction, but got in swings.  3:45 they left to get dorm rooms.  Everyone came back and heard some great speeches.  Very honest in approach and much appreciated.  Boys then went to dinner and lights out by 11.   I will give today's report later provided I am not boring anyone.  . 

Forgot to mention that after testing they had groups shag for one group while the other hit on sunken diamond. Two cages at home plate and about 8 hacks.  After the speeches, but prior to dinner, the boys did get to meet their coaches for the week.

So first full day complete.  Son's group started at nearby JC field.  Two teams (out of 26) were present.  After warm-ups kids went to their positions to field grounders with about 5 or 6 college coaches taking notes.  Filming was going on also.  Then they started the game.  Played about 11 innings and everyone started with a 1-1 count to keep it moving.  It appeared every player played about half the game.  Each team pitched three or so kids.  After game there was lunch break and then sons team ran through defensive drills.  Different coaches helping the whole time.  Not alot of instruction, but the boys all kniw what they are doing and there is just some refinement.  Finished with batting cage work.  Filming going in entire time.  Son already blew out his turf shoe and I got to go buy new pair at the end of the day.  Today his team plays at Sunken Diamond.  Will report on that later.  

Not a big fan of the 1-1 count, though I do understand why it's used.  If you look at one pitch chances are good that you'll get to show how good you are at hitting the curve ball. 

It's a big mental adjustment for many kids. At HF last week I'm guessing that about 25% of all at-bats ended with a called strike three.  Not the result players or parents came for.

Agree that the count stinks.  Kids appear to be pressing at the plate. On the positive side they are getting in about 11 innings per 2 hour game.

JCG posted:

Not a big fan of the 1-1 count, though I do understand why it's used.  If you look at one pitch chances are good that you'll get to show how good you are at hitting the curve ball. 

It's a big mental adjustment for many kids. At HF last week I'm guessing that about 25% of all at-bats ended with a called strike three.  Not the result players or parents came for.

Second that.

Plus at HF, the ball/strike was called from behind the pitcher by a HF staffer, so quite a few questionable calls. Does Stanford use a professional ump behind the plate?

The objective is hitting, swing the bat! Do not think, count the stitches.

Bob

Stanford uses paid umpires.  While the kids press a bit due to 1-1 count the game does move along.  Any walk or hit by pitch and the batter keeps batting with a new 1-1 count and another player not in the game runs the bases in place of batter.  I see both sides of the argument as can imagine that kids would get fewer Ab's if it was a full count.  Pick your poison.

what time was your game at Sunken Diamond, Late Bloomer? I'm not there, but my son is and he may have played with or against your son.  Thanks for your updates!

Son went to a number of showcases that started with 1-1 count and never liked it. He is used to hitting near top of lineup and work deep counts, take pitches, etc (pass info to other hitters). It is a different mindset. Sometimes he'd bunt the 1-1 if 3B was back. If he stole it would be on the first pitch as batter starts 1-1, and wouldn't want to distract batter he hadn't played with before. Sometimes the "dugout" coaches would take note of things such as hitting to right field, behind the runner, etc.

Showcase "games" often do benefit pitchers more than position players under this format, unless a hitter shows power/speed, etc. 1-1 is BIG advantage for the pitcher. That's why it's key for the position player to swing well, run hard, and have a cannon arm in skill sets.  Good luck to all at showcases--popular time of year for them!  

Well with a son as a pitcher here at Stanford, the 1-1 count was good for him, as he threw 5 innings the first day and had 10k, 7 or 8 of them swinging and missing Ks.

Son came last year too -- seems a little more standing around/free time this year than last, and also less organized.  Last year they received the pitching rotation on Sunday night, but he only found out he was pitching Monday afternoon a few hours before the game, leaving little if any time to contact coaches, who had asked his pitching schedule. Huge bummer.

The weather has been spectacular, and there are indeed many colleges here beyond those working the camp.

Bogeyorpar posted:

JCG posted:

Not a big fan of the 1-1 count, though I do understand why it's used.  If you look at one pitch chances are good that you'll get to show how good you are at hitting the curve ball. 

It's a big mental adjustment for many kids. At HF last week I'm guessing that about 25% of all at-bats ended with a called strike three.  Not the result players or parents came for.

Second that.

Plus at HF, the ball/strike was called from behind the pitcher by a HF staffer, so quite a few questionable calls. Does Stanford use a professional ump behind the plate?

At the risk of beating this  poor horse to death:  No question that calling balls and strikes behind the mound is very unreliable, but that being the case, I thought the HF staffers did a  good job of giving the hitter the benefit of the doubt with 2 strikes.  In that situation, I would not expect even a very good ump to slightly alter his zone to fit the circumstances.  Really, at HF it was on the kids alone -- many just did not show up ready to hack.  

JCG, you are right.   Why do you think this?    "fear of failure".

Bob

It's tough to complain about starting with a 1-1 count and umps behind the pitcher as an advantage for the pitcher since my son's a PO, so I won't.  What I will say is that 2016 went to multiple D1 and D3 college "camps" which were run like showcases and he went to HF and to a PG showcase.  Every single one of these were 5 batters an inning starting with 1-1 count and only PG had umps behind the plate.   So most of these events follow the same format.  It will be what these players see over and over so they best get used to it.  

Ok, so if the purpose is to move things along, why not start with a 2-1 count then.  Pitcher will need to "lock" in sooner.  And probably more likely he'll be able to show the coaches how he pitches from the wind-up and stretch....

Day 2 Observations - Son played the 9:00 am game at Sunken Diamond yesterday. Fun seeing the pic and name on the big screen.  He played 5 innings at ss and battled leadoff. Like comments above he is used to taking pitches and battling, so it does have an impact. But make no mistake he had a couple of opportunities to square one up but just miss hit them. Only he can fix that so it will be interesting to see if he does so today. Played great at ss though and I am pleased overall with his performance this far.  It's a great learning experience.

 I didn't stick around for the afternoon practice other than to watch a little bp.  I noticed that they were measuring exit speed off the tee.  Today is last day and they practiced in the morning and play at Gunn High School this afternoon. Its only a couple of miles away which is nice.    

Note: if parents are going to attend this next year to watch you will want to stay nearby as traffic around the bay area is heavy.  As I stayed with a relative about 60 miles away I found the commute to be anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 hours. 

Another suggestion for Stanford camp attendees:  Get there early for registration and it MIGHT allow your kid to take an extra round of BP on the Sunken Diamond with several coaches wandering around with nothing better to do than watch the BP.  We got there at 11:30 and son didn't have time to do this, though he did have a relaxing couple of hours hanging out with his hometown teammates who made the trip, and a couple of kids he met at HF.  So, maybe that was better use of his time?  Now that I think about it some more, he enjoyed the break!

What time did the last day of games and overall session end?  I'm trying to figure out the earliest flight we can catch out of SFO.  We'll be there July 14-17th for All Star Camp 2.

The final game at Sunken Diamond started at 2 and ended right around 4.  Coaches talked to players and the dugouts were empty and the stadium was a ghost town by 4:15.  That is of course during rush hour so expect a lot of traffic to either airport.

And let me echo the point above about going to register early on check-in.  They did not disclose to anyone that they were doing it in two "phases" and if you got there after 11 AM, you could not register until after the opening coaches talk was complete around 1:30.  There were still several hundred kids who had to do that, which then took more than an hour to do.  And most of those kids then never got to do the BP on the main field.  And of the three days of the camp, that was by far the most amount of coaches I saw with pads writing down player names and numbers who they liked.  For those like my son who showed up well before the stated 12 PM check-in, they were denied that opportunity to do BP on the field and that showcase opportunity.  After months of endless e-mails disclosing everything about the camp, it was inexcusable for them to not disclose the phased check-in.  I am not recommending the camp based on how poorly and disorganized the check in was, so consider yourselves warned.

Appreciate the heads up.

Me too.  Thanks.

Yes I can echo the go early point.  We woke up at dawn to get there around 1030/11 so son would not be in last group at noon, as he knew they grouped you for the first day based on when you walked in to register.  At 1045 or so, registration mysteriously closed.  We then had to stand/sit around (on a hot day so in the shade) for almost 3 hours. Son did not want to eat the burger provided for lunch as he knew he would be running/getting measurables done soon after that.  So he was exhausted, hot, tired and hungry by the time he did his 60 and the other testing.  Full disclosure, I did give him a protein bar so he wasn't starving (just hungry).  Plus it was about 15 degrees warmer too by then.

Having said all those registration negatives, he still ran his best 60 time.  I just wonder how much lower it might have been had he been able to go at 9am...

A few other things:  who pitched at Sunken Diamond and who didn't was a mystery.  As I mentioned above, last year they received the pitching rotations on Sunday night and could contact coaches.  This year, again the organization was different as son found out Monday AFTER 3 hours of practice, he was pitching in a few hours in the first game, not at Sunken Diamond.  He had gone "hard" at practice too as it was really his first chance to show anyone what he is made of...had zero chance to get any of the coaches he wanted to come watch him as it was off site and only a few hours notice.  So when we saw the pitchers who were lucky enough to throw at Sunken Diamond, we were expecting, frankly, greatness.  The 4 who were given that honor (2 each team in our game there) were hardly anything special.  One had a loud dad, who might have engineered it.  So son was pretty disappointed that he, especially as a return camper, did not get that honor.  Lesson to pitching parents:  have son ask to throw at Sunken Diamond!  Ask up front for the pitching rotation so your son can contact coaches.  

I do believe the camp could be more organized, with less down time (one day my son was done for the day at 2pm), less pizza (that was the meal served when you had to eat at the field if your game conflicted with meal time), and more baseball.

But still a good experience. 

My observations.  First day we were apparently lucky.  Son and his friend signed in about 9:15 am.   No pressure, no rush, etc...   Went over to get field tested and then returned to Sunken Diamond to take BP.  Yes, there were a lot of the coaches there during the "BP", but I personally didn't see a lot of coaches taking notes.  Each player only got about 8 swings and I think it was simply more of an ice breaker and something to do while others registered.  

As for the last day, son's team played at Gunn High School and was done by 3:00pm.  After they could have taken the camp bus back or ride with parents.  Its only a 3 minute drive so the boys rode with me, picked up their luggage at Sunken Diamond and we hurried off to begin our long wait in traffic.  

All in all it was a good experience.  Could it have been better or worse?  Sure.  I think people's comments above are all valid, but I personally have a bit more of a positive view of the camp it seems.  

Someone mentioned PG using a 1-1 count.  Not that there is anything bad about that, but is not done at PG events.  Though it is possible it could have happened at an event at some point.  Guess I thought everyone used a plate umpire and a base umpire.  But if I were sitting in the stands directly behind home plate, it might be helpful evaluating pitchers without a plate umpire in the way.  Recruiters and scouts don't even need an umpire to see how well a pitcher can throw.

PGStaff posted:

Someone mentioned PG using a 1-1 count.  Not that there is anything bad about that, but is not done at PG events.  Though it is possible it could have happened at an event at some point.  Guess I thought everyone used a plate umpire and a base umpire.  But if I were sitting in the stands directly behind home plate, it might be helpful evaluating pitchers without a plate umpire in the way.  Recruiters and scouts don't even need an umpire to see how well a pitcher can throw.

My son attended PG Northwest showcase last year. I remember that the PG event started with 0-0 count, used two umps, and actually played for 3 outs per inning. It's very much like a real game, except that each game is 10 innings, and batters don't get walked -- they have to EARN the base or get struck out. My son had an epic battle with a pitcher for 15 pitches. The pitcher threw a lot of balls, and my son fouled many others. In the end he hit a single and got on base. It was the most fun at-bat he ever had!

That's why we were a little bit surprised at HF's 1-1 start and 5 batter per inning rule (i.e. no outs ever, no incentive for double play or pickoff, base runners randomly take off, etc.) Batters, runners, and fielders behave differently if the counts and outs are messed up.  

Does Stanford also start with 1-1 and fixed number of batters per inning?

Bogey, I have not been yet but the answer is yes according to those who have. No question that these simulated games are a challenge mentally.  A player has to get himself into a game-is-on-the-line mentality even though there's no score kept, no outs recorded, nothing at stake really,  except showing your skills. In other words, everything.    It's tough!

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe HF not only uses the 1-1 count, but they also implement a "permanent 1-out" scenario, so the double-play is always in order.  HF I believe sticks to the 5-batters per inning rule no matter what the outs are.............and as I already mentioned, there's always 1-out.

I have never had a problem with it as I believe it allows the organizers to control time of play for scheduling.  Not going to make everyone happy I guess.

You are correct, #1.

PGStaff posted:

Someone mentioned PG using a 1-1 count.  Not that there is anything bad about that, but is not done at PG events.  Though it is possible it could have happened at an event at some point.  Guess I thought everyone used a plate umpire and a base umpire.  But if I were sitting in the stands directly behind home plate, it might be helpful evaluating pitchers without a plate umpire in the way.  Recruiters and scouts don't even need an umpire to see how well a pitcher can throw.

That was me - sorry for the mis-information.  When I wrote it I wasn't 100% sure but I went with it anyway.  I did confirm with 2016 that the D1 and D3 camps he attended over 2 summers/falls all followed the same format as Headfirst and all had current players (helping with the camp) calling balls and strikes from behind the pitcher.  Neither he or I remember much about the 1-out scenario at the camps - other than HF.  

For what it's worth, when he was batting I always told him to come out swinging with a 1-1 count when he attended these camps (between Soph and Jr year) and he always used his same approach - which was taking pitches, working the count.  And he really never did that well with that approach.  I guess that's why he became a PO.

That's OK and I can see where starting with a 1-1 count can save time.  The only problem is 0-0 is a hitter's count and 1-1 is more of a pitchers count. Just makes it harder on hitters.  Maybe the biggest difference is if the first pitch is a strike.  1-2 count after one pitch really puts the hitter in a hole.  Where 0-1 isn't quite so bad for a hitter.

Concur PGStaff.  Given all this, I at least have time to prepare my 2018 for the Stanford camp in 2 weeks.  If it looks decent hit it hard.

It must be really frustrating for the boys with a 1-2 count trying to hit it hard and by default put on a good showing for the coach's, especially knowing other than fastballs are likely coming their way.

The Duke camp is run with 1-1 counts; saw lots of check swings with kids trying to be careful.  Aggression disappeared...

Just to add a point.  I know it is hard to change a competitive player's hitting approach, but both HF and Stanford emphasize that the coaches are not there to count stats and end results.  They want to see the player's swing and approach to the ball.  That point is constantly made in the HF meetings that occur during the camp, but still I saw kids laying off close pitches, and one kid on my son's team I don't think swung his bat more than 3-4 times during the four games. 

Obviously a few of the pitches are so bad that no player should be swinging at them.  But the message to the kids attending is let it fly and show them what you have got!

P.S. For those with PO's, the same pressure applies.  At HF, there are literally 8-12 coaches behind the screen with their radar devices out tracking the pitches.  With only 5 batters per inning, a PO is going to want to demonstrate both their best FB velocity but also work in some sliders/curves and change-ups. But most innings are only 10-15 pitches. So with only 2 innings to pitch each day, PO's need to be ready to bring the velocity each day.

Maybe this story will help players to "not be afraid to fail".

In 1998 at our Area Code games in Long Beach, I watched a left handed hitter "swing and miss" with every AB. He was a "highly" regarded as a future major football player and pro baseball player from the State of New York.

After the 4th K, I mentioned to a pro scout. We may have missed on this player.

He said no BOB, "he has bat speed"!.

Next June a 1st round draft and 4 years later a "cup of coffee" with the Royals.

Boys - "SWING THE BAT"!!!

Bob

Returned from Stanford Futures Camp a few weeks ago. We didn't have any of the problems cited above in terms of registration, but it is a smaller camp and different format than the All-Star camps, so maybe that had something to do with it. We did have a day where son was finished relatively early in the day, but we used that time to walk the campus, and it was a great day. Counts started 1-1, 6 batter limit per inning and ump behind plate with one in the field. Innings did move pretty quickly and 10 innings per game was pretty much the norm.  Definitely a great experience for us.  Heading to HF Aug. 9&10 on Long Island and looking forward to it.