Skip to main content

Here's an interesting read from Bruce Jenkins of the SF Chron., the 2nd of a 2 part series.

Let them learn to pitch and learn to finish
Bruce Jenkins
Wednesday, August 27, 2008

(08-26) 19:07 PDT -- Here's a remedy you might not have heard for the pitch-count madness: Start the closer. Let him work an inning or two. Then bring in the starter, the better to let him finish.

BRUCE JENKINS

Doug Melvin, the Milwaukee general manager, swears he'd be conducting that experiment if the Brewers weren't such viable contenders. "I'm talking specifically about starters who consistently pitch six or seven innings," Melvin said. "It just makes sense to have your best pitchers, the ones you're paying the most money, working those pressure innings."

That's a radical approach, but it reflects widespread disgust among those from past eras. "Pitch counts are absurd," said Ron Darling, who spent five of his 13 seasons with the A's. "Mentally, you're training pitchers to look over their shoulder for the next guy to bail them out, and then you have the 12th- or 13th-best pitcher on your team coming in for important outs. That doesn't make sense."

One of the most respected pitchers of the 1980s, Jack Morris, said, "I'm not even sure I could pitch today. I'd probably want to be a reliever. As a starter, you have no chance of controlling your destiny. You can have a great game and not be able to finish it. I trust me more than I trust a reliever."

As for Jim Kaat, who had 180 complete games in a 25-year career, "We were on a performance count, not a pitch count," he said. "A pitch count would have hurt my development."

How did it come to this? It's wise not to dwell on those early-century iron men. In the days before Babe Ruth ushered in the lively-ball era (1920), the "spitball" and other ball-scuffing methods were legal. Pitchers tended to use the same ball - brown-colored, difficult to see, heavily doctored and thoroughly dead - inning after inning. A typical home run king in those days was Frank "Home Run" Baker, who slugged nine in 1914 - and led the American League.

More relevant are comparisons to the '50s, '60s and '70s, when pitchers' endurance matched the game's ever-growing emphasis on scoring. There was no better example than the classic 1963 matchup between the Giants' Juan Marichal and the Braves' Warren Spahn, each going the distance in a 16-inning game that ended on Willie Mays' homer. Marichal threw 227 pitches that night, and there was a point when his catcher, Ed Bailey, told him, "Don't let them take you out. Win or lose, this is great."

Exactly. It was great. Back then, pitchers were conditioned to finish games. It was the hallmark of their upbringing, their time in the minor leagues and every big-league start they made. Nobody had an eye on the bullpen, because chances are, nobody was warming up. Marichal made his next start on time (he wound up leading the league with 3211/3 innings that year), and as Steve Hirdt noted at the Elias Sports Bureau, "Pitchers of the generations up to Marichal's had a belief that 'This game is mine.' The idea of doing permanent harm to a pitcher's arm didn't come into anyone's mind."

Defenders of the pitch count point to how drastically the game has changed over the years, and that is undeniably true. Shrinking strike zones have removed the high strike from a pitcher's repertoire. Most new ballparks are a hitter's dream, and despite all denials from Major League Baseball, the balls have been "juiced" for years. Lineups are more loaded with power hitters, particularly in the American League, with the DH. Teams are highly sensitive to their financial investments, and the players' union encourages the idea of two or three vitally important relief specialists per team.

As much as anything, though, the pace of the game has changed. I once asked Leonard Koppett (the sage historian who passed away in 2003) why games of the past were so routinely played in two hours. "They didn't have lights," he said. Pitchers worked quickly, batters went up there hacking, only a minute or so passed between half-innings, and it was all very tidy. Pitchers are infinitely more deliberate today. They require more pitches to get through an inning and the hitters, as a whole, aren't nearly as aggressive. In the era of on-base percentage, it's downright heroic for a batter to be up there taking pitches for a 3-and-1 count.

One thing hasn't changed at all: the simple act of a man throwing a baseball as hard as he can. Watching 60-year-old films of the NFL or college basketball, you wonder if it's even the same sport. There is no difference whatsoever between Matt Cain unloading a fastball to Ryan Howard and Bob Feller doing the same to Ted Williams.

The crucial factor is that pitchers of past eras were groomed to pitch nine innings. Perhaps the most famous pitching coach of all time, Johnny Sain, spent decades encouraging his pitchers to throw every day - not hard, necessarily, simply to keep the arm loose. If your job security depends on finishing a game - with 160 pitches, if that's what it takes - then you don't think twice about it, nor does your manager, general manager or owner. The act becomes as mundane as covering first base or laying down a bunt.

Now that teams are deeply settled into the era of caution, it would be ridiculous for the Giants, or any other team, to suddenly scrap the "setup man" and demand excessive pitch counts of their starters. Restoring pitchers' dignity would require a long-term process, extending all the way to the lower minors, perhaps a three-year program designed to gradually build durability throughout the system. With a four-man rotation, fewer pitchers on the staff and devaluation of the setup man - pretty much a joke on many teams - teams could make infinitely better use of a 25-man roster.

Morris questions whether there's any value to contemporary thought, saying, "I think it's proving over time that they aren't really saving anybody. Guys are getting hurt just as much today as they were before, if not more. So this whole theory about saving their arms, I ain't buying it. I think kids have to throw more, and the more they throw, the stronger they'll get. In time, I think it will go back to what it was for 100 years of baseball."

Still, Kaat wonders, "What organization is going to have the guts to go down to the lower minors and have a four-man rotation and forget about counting pitches and let them figure out how to pitch? I think a lot of them want to. It's a combination of agents, the money in the game today, and fear."

I wouldn't put it past Tony La Russa to lead the way, with St. Louis or some other team. The most appropriate setting might be the American League, where the DH eliminates the necessity of pinch-hitting for the pitchers. Then again, it could happen right here in San Francisco.

When you think about it, the Giants are in ideal position. They have Lincecum and Cain in position to be complete-game mainstays within a year or two. They have Tim Alderson, Madison Bumgarner and at least a half-dozen other top prospects just beginning their professional careers. Perhaps it's the type of thinking that escapes the team's current management. Perhaps fear will continue its oppressive reign.

I'm betting a revolution will come, somewhere, and it will be beautiful.
"There are two kinds of people in this game: those who are humble and those who are about to be." Clint Hurdle
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

In son's milb system in low class and high A you must begin your season on a 4 day rotation tandem rotation). Start, relieve, start, relieve on a pitch count (relief is a clean inning). Most of the guys find it difficult in their preparation, the key to a starters success.
Most college programs, pitchers begin in the BP, for 2 years mine started, relieved and closed. The philosophy is come play off time you ned to be able to do everything, which many programs do late in the year as well as some MLB teams the same so this is NOT new.
The game is played by the same rules but it has changed, why do so many continue to bring up ptichers games, "back then".
I don't know, TPM, but I think the article is on to something. I believe there is a lot to learn from from "the old days". After all, they were men who threw hard, put on their shoes the same as players today.. why not inspect some of the old styles to improve todays?

Perhaps in the days of old they went a little over the top with excessive pitches and innings, and today's strict pitch-counts is just an overreaction. I found it kind of annoying really during Bum, Jr.'s final H.S. season when practically every inning I would have three or four parents come up to me and ask, "What's his pitch count?" Is there something terrible that will happen if he goes over 100? 120? I don't think so if it doesn't happen on consecutive starts or on short rest. Just not a big pitch-count guy.
The game is played by the same rules but it has changed, why do so many continue to bring up ptichers games, "back then".

---------------------------------------------------

tpm
it is the same game, but back then the starter, reliever, and closer. were the same guy.
they were iron men,but they didn't throw 96 mph. they just got you out. that i think is the biggest change.
There has to be something to the idea that today's pitchers, by and large are, "trained" to throw incomplete games. For whatever reason, we have evolved to expect the use of more than one pitcher per game. I think this has led to specificity of training for particular pitching roles. Not that there is anything wrong with what we have, I guess everything evolves, but I wonder if the way that the older guys used to train was not better for overall arm health. Have we gotten to a point where the power arm is just more valuable and sought after than the guy who just gets you out? My son's high school coach is a former professional, playing in the minors in the late 60s and early 70s. He worried terribly about over throwing his pitchers due to the fact that he didn't think that kids today were as prepared to throw as much as they did 30 years ago. My son had a very successful high school career winning 28 games. Most of his games were complete, and he rarely threw over 90 pitches, and he never threw over 87 mph. He threw a complete game in the playoffs this year while tossing only 59 pitches, yet his coach apologized after one game for letting him go to 106 pitches. With that being said, he had a partially torn labrum that had to be repaired after the season. Could it be that even he, as a low pitch count guy, was not in proper condition? Who knows? In my opinion, kids do not do enough just plain throwing everyday.
A couple of things jump out to my untrained brain...

1. The statement that just as many pitchers are getting hurt today as in previous eras. Is that perception or fact?

2. Although we can site players like Bob Feller as fireballers of years past, were there as many pitchers in those eras throwing as hard as today?

My perception is no, but that could be wrong. It makes me wonder if we've trained todays pitchers for maximum velocity, where that wasn't really the case in years past. The number of players that threw over 90 at PG WWBA Jupiter in 2006 blew me away.

I, like others, have often wondered if throwing everyday would be an asset or detriment. I know about microtears and healing times, but I also know how freaking strong bricklayers, roofers, steelworkers, etc are, and they do it everyday.

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×