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It's been way too long since my last visit. Much has happened. But, I could REALLY use some seasoned advice... especially from any scouts in the audience.

Son graduated from a good academic college (double major, Magna Cum Laude) in 2010. He is living on his own, still hanging on to "The Dream", working out at an "anonymous" baseball training center, 1,000 miles from home, while holding down a full-time job.

He landed a Spring Training contact earlier this year in a lower Indy League, but was released. It was an eye-opening, disappointing experience. We both thought (as did his teammates) that he was the odds-on favorite to be the starting catcher. We were thrilled, given his past baseball heartaches. So, getting his walking papers was quite a shock. Although, the silver-lining was him hitting a HR in his first and only professional at-bat... definitely a great memory.

I will attempt to condense my request to what is pertinent as everyone has a "story".

We are learning that the baseball training center he is attending does provide very good training. Now, with no place to play, he certainly needs the reps he can get there. But, the pro contract connections that we thought this training center had... now seem pretty sparse at best. I understand jobs in the baseball industry are tight this year. But, time is running out... not just on the season, but on his career! We want to make sure we're doing the right things and considering all of our options... before it is too late.

Because my son was signed early last year, he did not attend any other pro tryout events... which we realize was a mistake. And, by the time he was released, all the pre-season tryouts were already over and everyone's rosters were filled. (In fact, the coach of his Indy team tried calling around to find him a place... to no avail). Meanwhile, the training center said they'd find a place for him as slots always open up by mid-season. So, while we were upset, we weren't terribly worried.

For sake of argument, assume my son has the "goods" to play. It's a long story, but I feel we've had enough feedback over the past several years (college to present) from former affiliated coaches, scouts and players that have affirmed that he has the skills to make it as a pro. And, he just keeps getting better. Since being released this spring, he has attended some "open" MLB tryouts. He was kept for a "second look" at two camps (Braves and ??). But we have learned that those types of tryouts very rarely net any signings. Those that do sign are usually pitchers. Unfortunately, my son's current training center doesn't seem to really have anything... as they were certain would develop. Unfortunately, we missed some of the few mid-year pro showcases (like IndyProShowcase) because of what the training center was supposed to offer.

Yes, hindsight is too easy. I realize we relied too much on this training center. But, now what? what's missing? My theory is that experience and pedigree... and now, age... and lack of connections are huge obstacles.

Further, as a 4-year bench player from a northeastern DIII school, it is really tough to get attention. I know. Any reasonable observer, including scout worth his salt, would conclude there is nothing there to be seen given THAT college experience. Of course, getting released from low-level Indy ball doesn't help (and THAT is its own story). But, this is really not the case. The story from college is truly beyond belief... but things happen for reasons and I don't really want to get into all that. Sadly, we had two different DI opportunities that we elected not to take. Again, hindsight.

At any rate, my son is a very strong, 6'2" catcher who has excellent plate skills, a strong, accurate arm and very quick bat (I don't recall his BESR, but it is up there). He also has an incredible knowledge of the game and pitchers love to throw to him. And, as I mentioned, his bat is very good. Yes, I am a Dad, but I usually try to under-rate rather than over-rate. Anyway, our plans at this point are as follows:

- Stay in playing shape and continue to get better
- Go to as many open MLB tryouts as reasonably possible
- Beat the bushes and rattle the cages to see what other opportunities we can find (hence my note to you all)
- Plan on attending as many pre-season tryouts this winter/early spring as possible.
- It is expensive, but the pay-to-play Arizona Winter League seems like it may be one of the last options remaining.
- Hopefully find the money to do it all

So, is this a good approach? Is there anything else we should be doing or can be doing?

Someone with past front-office MLB experience mentioned to us that we probably need an agent. That just seems odd... but does that have some merit? I have certainly learned a lot more than I ever imagined about some of the non-baseball things that occur in a baseball organization. So, perhaps this is something to look into?

Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated. No, he's not hanging up the cleats yet... despite the pressure to do so. He's gotten so close that it makes no sense to quit now. But, which way forward?

Thanks for any advice or help
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I admire the tenacity shown here and the love a father has for his son. Somewhere, I am sure there is a reward here.

My son was a drafted player and it took all his powers, some luck, and a couple of solid minor league seasons before he was able to get an agent so unless you know someone willing to take on that task, I wouldn't waste any time looking for one as I doubt anyone would be willing to take the risk. If it happens serendipitously then great.

Thinking outside the box...

This story kind of reminds me of Kurt Warner. Perhaps mention that story to your son for added encouragement. I love the story about Rudy as well as that story inspires me. I guess what I am trying to say is get his focus on something other than baseball and that might just change his luck for no reason other than it might...

I believe in the power of positive thinking. Sometimes you have to trust there is a higher power involved and let the chips play out while never giving up hope. It already sounds like you are doing everything in your power. All he needs is one break. Keep thinking positive, don't give up, and I think he will get that one break.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
If you and your son are interested in keeping the dream alive, you should "Google" Erik Kratz.
Our son, also a DIII, played Milb with him in 2004 and a part of 2005.
Erik was a DIII catcher who was drafted in 2002.
He finally made it for 36 AB's with the Pirates in ......2009, I think?
He has been released, and released and released again. He has "stuck" at AAA and probably makes an adequate living if we accept he might have 2-3 more years, maximum, and then needs to learn to make a living in the real world.
Your son has a much different battle than Erik. Yours needs to find an organization and stick with them in Milb. There will be plenty who blow smoke and not much substance.
Your son is pushing a very large boulder up a very steep hill.
Erik Kratz shows it can happen for a DIII catcher. As long as you are your son can keep what Kratz has done in context the thousands who didn't, the
"dream" can provide amazing motivation.
Thanks, infielddad! Somehow, I missed the great story on Erik. Ironically, our son's HS program played Erik's HS program... and our son's college program played Erik's college program.

As well, Kratz debuted with the Pirates... which has special personal meaning. I get to Pittsburgh quite a bit on business and usually stay at the hotel next to PNC Park. I take in a game when I can. But, I did not get to a game last year.
Last edited by SnowBall
I have to be brutally honest here, knowing what I know, I would suggest your son begin considering a career other than baseball.

You talk about his career running out, but I don't see it as a career as he isn't playing or being paid to. I am not understanding how close you feel that he has gotten, because someone signed him up to play independent ball? I am going to assume your son is about 23,24 way too old for the first level of pro ball where the 17,18 year olds begin (and those on rehab). That alone is the greatest odd against him.

IMO training centers can be just another group of blood suckers for those that are willing to dump in their hard earned dollars. The serve a purpose, but in your case sounds like they never came through for you.

Last year my son's BF a second round pick (pitcher) was released from the Mets, he went to play Indyball this season and left because he realized he wasn't going to get picked up from there and it wasn't worth the risk of getting hurt. He will begin training again this off season, has moved to FL and will with help of his agent get tryouts for next spring, he might get a chance because he is a pitcher, but other than that he realizes the odds are NOT in his favor at 26.

Your son being a catcher makes it even more difficult. You should actually do some homework on milb catchers and see why most don't stay at that position unless they hit the c rap out of the ball.

Baseball training is not playing the game to get better something your son has not done and something that needs to be done for someone at that position.

CD is correct about how hard it is to get an agents attention. Their sole purpose is to make money from you from you signing your first big league contract but advice is free and I will bet they will tell you the same you have heard here.

I may not be as kind with my answer, but I see how hard it is for the ones who have been playing for years and won't ever get to reach their goal (ML). I think the biggest misconception is understanding how hard it really is, and if your son had a tough time on the lower indy level (whatever that is) you cannot even begin to imagine what it is at the pro, even at the lowest pro level.

I admire the determination as well, but sometimes one just has to be realistic and it is hard to be if you don't really know how difficult the uphill battle is, even for those with more experience and talent. As far as people telling you stuff, everyone tells everyone stuff to make them feel better, the best people who are up front and honest and tell you the truth are the ones they often end up listening to(sometimes what you don't want to hear).

Your son's career in baseball does not have to end, there are so many ways to stay close to the game, I would suggest that they perhaps become a strong consideration at this point.

Best of luck.
Last edited by TPM
quote:
He's gotten so close that it makes no sense to quit now.


Hi Snowball,
I know its hard to watch your son work so hard and overcome many obstacles, only to face more, but I have to agree with TPM in that its probably time to move forward in a different career direction. It may seem like your son is close to a MLB career, but based on my experience, he's probably not.

MLB organizations have a lot of extremely talented and proven college players to pick from when filling out their entry level rosters. Your son may be getting better, but his competition has been getting better, too, and is far ahead of him...and younger. Many also faced obstacles and adversities as they advanced through the toughest college programs and summer leagues, which only made them better.

Based on the information you provided in your post, your son does not have the playing experience and record of success needed at his age for a MLB career, especially for a position player. In the end, that's what it comes down to. Every player has to prove that's he's better than the competition at every level...each one being harder than the last. If he is, he will advance. If not, it may be time to hang up the cleats. Even MLB players eventually face this reality, as new competition challenges them. Its never easy.

Your son is now a man, living on his own, with a solid degree and a good head on his shoulders. He still needs your love, but also needs to make his own way in this world. Its time to let go and allow him to pursue a new career that utilizes his intellectual gifts and interests. Most MLB GMs had the dream of playing at one time or another. Maybe he'd love the business side of baseball. He'll never know until he broadens his horizons.

I wish you and your son the best!
Last edited by TxMom
I wish your son the best of luck in his pursuit to play pro ball but a couple of things you posted have me wondering if he and you are misguided. You said he was a DIII bench warmer for four years and was cut by a low level Indy team. You said that everyone felt your son would be the starter on the Indy team but was released. With all due respect that is two levels of ball where your son didn't get the job done to be the everyday catcher.

You talk about all the great things your son can do (as well you should) but why hasn't he been able to rack up more playing time? DIII baseball is pretty good but it doesn't compare to professional ball. Indy ball is a hit and miss but overall it still has some pretty good talent.

Continue to pursue the dream because there are Kurt Warner's out there and the other guy I can't remember from this thread who do make it against long odds. My advice though is the same as TPM - start making plans for life after baseball or move into another facet of the game like coaching or scouting.

I'm sorry for coming across like a jerk but some things you said just don't add up.
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
coach well said----let me add this and perhaps be a bit mor blunt---why is mom involved at this point in time. the boy is a colllege grad with honors---let him speak for himself---I think it is time for the boy to get on with hislife and grow up.


Are parents not allowed to investigate things on their own. Perhaps the son is in fact doing everything he can and maybe mom just wants to know some things for her own knowledge. Neither you , nor I, know the initiative son is taking on his own.
quote:
Originally posted by 2013 Dad:
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
coach well said----let me add this and perhaps be a bit mor blunt---why is mom involved at this point in time. the boy is a colllege grad with honors---let him speak for himself---I think it is time for the boy to get on with hislife and grow up.


Are parents not allowed to investigate things on their own. Perhaps the son is in fact doing everything he can and maybe mom just wants to know some things for her own knowledge. Neither you , nor I, know the initiative son is taking on his own.


I agree with TR, the player is old enough to take care of business, if not, move on.

Too much "we" mentioned is the tip off, this should not be what mom or dad wants, but the player.
Originally posted by TPM:

I may not be as kind with my answer, but I see how hard it is for the ones who have been playing for years and won't ever get to reach their goal (ML). I think the biggest misconception is understanding how hard it really is, and if your son had a tough time on the lower indy level (whatever that is) you cannot even begin to imagine what it is at the pro, even at the lowest pro level.



Yes, you are as not as kind as others. And while you definitely contribute tons on this site with great info, it is exactly this type of post, with an elitist tone, that keep people away. Unfortunately, the OP didn't have a kid that is 6'4 and threw 90 as a Junior in HS. Of course, one will ever know, but I wonder how your responses would be if your kid was an average player like most of those who come here seeking advice. The same point could have been made in less harsh words (such as Coach's post).
Last edited by 2013 Dad
I want to apoplogize to the OP. My advice is your son should do whatever he wants. If he wants to pursue the dream and become another success story, he should go for it assuming he can afford to do so. He will have the degree whenever his baseball journey is over. If he enjoys it and wants to play, then play on. Nobody on this board is in a position to tell him otherwise. I wish him the best of luck and maybe in a couple of years, you will come back and tell us of another Kurt Warner story. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by 2013 Dad:
Neither you nor TR can have the slightest idea as to what this player has or has not done on his own to attempt to further his career. Nor can you possibly know what the player wants or doesn't want.


If the player wants it, then he needs to go out and take care of business. He doesn't need mom or dad to help make it happen, so in that respect I agree with TR. There comes a time when parents need to let it go, let your adult children figure it out for themselves. I am assuming that since he graduated HS, he is an adult? The OP says time is running out on his career? What career? Did he ever play for pay? Or does it mean that his dream is running out of time?

BTW, the OP was from a DAD, talk about living vicariously through your player. I will repeat, it appears that dad wants it just as much as son, whose dream is it anyway?

And what is wrong with telling someone that it is time to move on? Sorry, IMO it's time to move on.

Trust me I understand this more than you could ever imagine. You have no idea.

Who are you to tell me how I should or should not post?

If the player wants to try until he's 40, no one says he shouldn't if that is what he wants, but explain to me how the words "we" or "our" comes into the post, shouldn't it be about "him"?
Last edited by TPM
Snowball

If he wants to play. Play. Going to tryout camps is a deadend on the organized side.

I would never encourage him to give up his dream. He will know when its time. As long as he believes then you should believe with him.

Stay out of his way. Encourage him and tell him you support him in his belief of his abilities.

Have him get on the internet and run down the indy ball combines. Call the GM's and managers of the teams. Not you. Him. He has to make the calls. He thinks he can play so he has to battle through all the no's to get one yes.

I'd start with the Indy teams that are as close to where he is living and go from there to where your home is now to where a family members home may be to where some friends homes may be. Have him ask for a workout. When he gets a "we don't do workouts" then get a buddy and get in car and go to the facility and beg for a workout while standing there face to face.

He'll either get a chance or he will determine that he just wasn't good enough. No matter what he gave his very best effort and that will sit well with him and then he can begin the next phase of his life.

Good Luck.
quote:
Originally posted by swingbuilder:
Call the GM's and managers of the teams. Not you. Him. He has to make the calls. He thinks he can play so he has to battle through all the no's to get one yes.


Exactly.

Are you still involved in the pro game as a scout?

Maybe you could help in getting an evaluation for the player?
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
tpm perhaps you have not learned it yet but there comes a time when the cord needs to be cut and the boy go on his own


Yes I realize that and agreed that is why i got myself in trouble here.

One thing I have found, it's very easy for most to give advice on a message board, the person asking can take what they feel is helpful and discard what they don't need. Now if someone goes out of their way to really try to help the person asking, no one would ever know, because for some (new folks especially), the opinion given in words wasn't to their liking, even though that person may be more helpful than they could ever imagine. There are quite a few people here like that, not only do they give advice but the first to help out anyway they can. But everyone is different, boy would it be boring around here if we all had the same opinions on every post.

FWIW, the best coaches and managers my son ever had were the really tough ones, you know the ones that son didn't think liked him very much but turned out to be the best because they were the ones who really knew what they were doing.

Yup, Dad04 these new folks don't know about the love TR and I have for one another. Frown

I am actually agreeing with him lately! Smile
Last edited by TPM
If he hopes to be seen, he has to play the game.

At this point, I would offer the National Adult Baseball Association. It is for people who love the game and come from all levels of the game.

http://www.dugout.org/

Join and play. At the same time you will be around baseball people that may see that you may be better suited to first base than catcher, etc.

If you can hit for power most teams wil find a place for you. But you have to play to be seen.

Good Luck.
Last edited by Quincy
The OP has some valuable experience that I'm glad he shared because it has made me start to think how I need to handle my 13 yr old son once he graduates high school and still has a love to play the game.

Personally with 4 sons and 2 older sons who played baseball the toughest part for me was to let go when the 2 older sons decided to give up the game in high school.

I think it will be harder for me if my 3rd oldest son still wants to play but IMO doesn't have what it takes to get to the pro's. For his sake I hope I can be honest with him. Especially if he gets married and starts a family he will need to get a job.

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