In a recent game a runner at third crossed home plate before the catcher recovered his dropped third strike and threw out the runner at first. One umpire ruled that the run would score because the catcher had not yet touched the errant ball and the pitch was still live. A senior ump ruled that it was a force play and the run would not count. Who's right? Having a very hard time determining this one by the book!
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Your question seems to imply that the play at first base was the third out. If so, the first umpire you mentioned needs some serious education. No run can score if the third out is made by the batter/runner before he touches first base. The fact that the catcher hadn't yet retrieved the ball and the pitch is still live is irrelevant.
The "senior" umpire was correct that the run doesn't count but, by definition, there are no force outs at first base. They're called throw outs. Force outs occur at second, third and home.
NO run....1st umpire needs baseball 101 training........"senior" umpire correct but needs study ...
Your question seems to imply that the play at first base was the third out. If so, the first umpire you mentioned needs some serious education. No run can score if the third out is made by the batter/runner before he touches first base. The fact that the catcher hadn't yet retrieved the ball and the pitch is still live is irrelevant.
The "senior" umpire was correct that the run doesn't count but, by definition, there are no force outs at first base. They're called throw outs. Force outs occur at second, third and home.
You are taking 2 issues and trying to find a combination to allow the run to score when no such association exists....
Yes, under Fed rule 2-28-4, the pitch is still live until secured by the catcher.....yet that has no effect on the rule that states how a team scores...
How a team scores.....
(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.
EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base;
You are taking 2 issues and trying to find a combination to allow the run to score when no such association exists....
Yes, under Fed rule 2-28-4, the pitch is still live until secured by the catcher.....yet that has no effect on the rule that states how a team scores...
How a team scores.....
(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.
EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base;
And that rule is the same in pro and college rules (and I don't know of any youth type leagues that would have modified it either, but anything is possible)
Similar question. 1 out with runners on second and 3rd. Sac fly to right field, runner tags, right field throws to second before runner gets back. Does the run from third count if he crosses the plate before the ump calls the force at second?
Similar question. 1 out with runners on second and 3rd. Sac fly to right field, runner tags, right field throws to second before runner gets back. Does the run from third count if he crosses the plate before the ump calls the force at second?
Yes the run scores because it is a time play. The "doubling-up" out at 2nd is not a force, it is a retouch appeal.
Thanks, just as I thought.
