I don't own a gun and never will but I am curious about my sons arm strength. I had seen where there is a formula for speed using a stop watch and I was hoping that some one has it.
Thanks.
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Don't even bother. 
You'd be better off just measuring the distance he long tosses if you're so adverse to using a radar gun.
You'd be better off just measuring the distance he long tosses if you're so adverse to using a radar gun.
I am not adverse to using a radar gun. I am adverse to buying one. I get layed off at the end of the month and am currently looking for a new job. Another causulty of the economy. Nobody on our team owns one either. Plus I want to see how fast he cruises, not showing off for a gun.
Now that I have explained myself can you help me out or do you want to buy me a gun? Make it a stalker please. He is 14 next week and he long tosses. I have no idea why you would want to know his long toss distance? I have never measured it.
Now that I have explained myself can you help me out or do you want to buy me a gun? Make it a stalker please. He is 14 next week and he long tosses. I have no idea why you would want to know his long toss distance? I have never measured it.
Doughnutman:
Using a stop watch is really tough - since it depends upon your reaction time.
The old rule of thumb is that 300 feet throwing distance equates to 90 MPH initial velocity. This site below - from Bum - is backwards but you should be able to make it work to determine other initial speeds. Use 35 degrees as the launch angle.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1491034941/...911073003#6911073003
The results are interesting:
90 MPH - 315 feet
85 - 291
80 - 267
This seems a little closer to me than the old rule of thumb - but it is certainly good enough given the unknown variables like wind and precise launch angle.
Using a stop watch is really tough - since it depends upon your reaction time.
The old rule of thumb is that 300 feet throwing distance equates to 90 MPH initial velocity. This site below - from Bum - is backwards but you should be able to make it work to determine other initial speeds. Use 35 degrees as the launch angle.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1491034941/...911073003#6911073003
The results are interesting:
90 MPH - 315 feet
85 - 291
80 - 267
This seems a little closer to me than the old rule of thumb - but it is certainly good enough given the unknown variables like wind and precise launch angle.
Thanks 08Dad, I was just wanting a general idea. 267=80 MPH I know he can do. He has thrown out a few batters on a relay from left center and he was easliy 267. I will measure him to find out. I tried your link but couldn't get it to work. I even tried downloading Java.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
Try this
http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/carrj/Java/baseball4.html
Sorry it did not work the first time - works on my machine but... who knows the wonders of computers...
http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/carrj/Java/baseball4.html
Sorry it did not work the first time - works on my machine but... who knows the wonders of computers...
I can appreciate your situation, but sorry...no stalker from me 
There are other decent guns you can get for A LOT less:
http://www.amazon.com/SpeedTrac-X-All-Sports-Radar/dp/B0009VX9QM
You can use this for training purposes at home. Just get a net and you're good to go.
Then you know for sure.
There are other decent guns you can get for A LOT less:
http://www.amazon.com/SpeedTrac-X-All-Sports-Radar/dp/B0009VX9QM
You can use this for training purposes at home. Just get a net and you're good to go.
Then you know for sure.
Lower cost way is to get a glove radar, around $70. Used ones might even be available on ebay. I don't remeber the exact number but a ball slows down around 7 MPH from 60'. I used one for several years to get relative speed differences between pitches and also to track his progress.
Go to a football field to get a better idea on actual distances and remember a little bit of wind can make a very big difference on throwing distance.
Go to a football field to get a better idea on actual distances and remember a little bit of wind can make a very big difference on throwing distance.
Here's an approach that is nowhere as convenient or precise as a radar gun, but it will work if you are careful. You'll need a video camera, a tripod, a bright day, and marks on the ground near the pitching rubber and the plate. You'll also need a way to display the video frame by frame. Some analog cameras have single frame advance playback capability; otherwise you'll need a digital camera and software to do single frame advance playback. It will be easier if the camera has a "sports" mode or the possibility to use short exposure times.
The basic idea is that video cameras take 30 frames per second, and that allows us to measure flight times much more precisely than using a stop watch. It also takes out most of the human element in measuring the time.
Set up the camera on the tripod perhaps 100 feet away from a line between pitcher and catcher, and at the same distance to both. In math class terms, put the camera on the perpendicular bisector of a line between F1 and F2, and about 100 feet away. You want the space between F1 and F2 to fill up most of the sideways field of view of the camera. The camera needs to see the ball in flight and also the rubber and the plate, or markers close to them. We'll need the distance between the rubber and plate or the markers measured to an accuracy of a few inches.
Take some video, and in playback look for the first frame after the ball has left the pitcher's hand, and the last one before it is caught. Measure the distance between the ball's position in these two frames, using the rubber/plate/markers as a gauge. Shorter exposure times and brighter days will yield less blurring of the images of the ball, but just use the center of the blur as the location for a particular frame. You can calculate the average ball speed in feet per second by counting the number of elapsed frames, multiplying that by 0.0333 seconds/frame, and dividing that into the measured distance that the ball traveled between the the frames. For a pitch which travels at an average of 75 mph, or 110 feet/second [conversion is mph times 5280/3600 equals feet per second], the ball will travel 1 foot per 9 millisconds, or a little less than 4 feet per frame.
Depending on when the pitcher released the ball in relationship to the acquisition time of the camera, you might find that the first frame picks up the ball 2 feet from the pitchers hand, and the last frame has the ball 3 feet from the catcher's mitt. Those distances aren't important. Instead the distances between the ball and the plate/rubber or the markers is what allows you to measure the distance traveled during the 14 or 15 elapsed frames.
Once you've got an average speed, add 3 mph to get a speed equivalent to a radar gun.
If you are measuring your own son, add 10mph to match a gun with daddy settings.
With care, you should be able to get within 1 mph of the average speed, assuming you can measure the distance the ball travels to within 8 inches or so.
The basic idea is that video cameras take 30 frames per second, and that allows us to measure flight times much more precisely than using a stop watch. It also takes out most of the human element in measuring the time.
Set up the camera on the tripod perhaps 100 feet away from a line between pitcher and catcher, and at the same distance to both. In math class terms, put the camera on the perpendicular bisector of a line between F1 and F2, and about 100 feet away. You want the space between F1 and F2 to fill up most of the sideways field of view of the camera. The camera needs to see the ball in flight and also the rubber and the plate, or markers close to them. We'll need the distance between the rubber and plate or the markers measured to an accuracy of a few inches.
Take some video, and in playback look for the first frame after the ball has left the pitcher's hand, and the last one before it is caught. Measure the distance between the ball's position in these two frames, using the rubber/plate/markers as a gauge. Shorter exposure times and brighter days will yield less blurring of the images of the ball, but just use the center of the blur as the location for a particular frame. You can calculate the average ball speed in feet per second by counting the number of elapsed frames, multiplying that by 0.0333 seconds/frame, and dividing that into the measured distance that the ball traveled between the the frames. For a pitch which travels at an average of 75 mph, or 110 feet/second [conversion is mph times 5280/3600 equals feet per second], the ball will travel 1 foot per 9 millisconds, or a little less than 4 feet per frame.
Depending on when the pitcher released the ball in relationship to the acquisition time of the camera, you might find that the first frame picks up the ball 2 feet from the pitchers hand, and the last frame has the ball 3 feet from the catcher's mitt. Those distances aren't important. Instead the distances between the ball and the plate/rubber or the markers is what allows you to measure the distance traveled during the 14 or 15 elapsed frames.
Once you've got an average speed, add 3 mph to get a speed equivalent to a radar gun.
If you are measuring your own son, add 10mph to match a gun with daddy settings.
With care, you should be able to get within 1 mph of the average speed, assuming you can measure the distance the ball travels to within 8 inches or so.
Stopwatch is certainly tricky, and it's averse, not adverse.
Go with 3fingeredGlove. I have been videotaping my son for the last three years and calculating his velocity from counting the frames of the camera and doing the calculations. Everyone always asks why I always tape his pitching and I state I am measuring his velocity amongst other things. Most people don't get it. Velocity can be accuratly measured within about 3 mph I have noticed.
My rule of thumb is this- the catcher usually catches the ball in back of the plate at between two and three feet in back of the back of home plate. My son releases the ball at about 75% of his height away from the front of the rubber. My son being 5 foot 6 inches thus releases the ball in front of the pitching rubber at about 4 feet in front. So, according to a recent game he played in I can thus calculate approxiamtely how fast he was throwing. Here are the figures
54 feet from mound to plate- 4 feet for the release = 50 feet, Now add the 2 feet of the added catcher distance= 52 feet.
I counted the frames at 1/30 of a sec. and counted 16 frames from release to being caught. So-
52 feet divided by 16 frames equals 3.25 feet per frame
Then take 3.25 and times it by 30 which equals a rate of 97.5 feet per second.
Then take the 97.5 and times it by 3600 seconds (the amount of seconds in an hour) for a figure or rate of 351,000 feet per hour.
Then take the 351,000 rate and divide it by how many feet in a mile- 5280 and we get a mph reading of 66.4772
This is the average and now adding 3 mph gets me the velocity as it left his hand which would be approximately 69 mph.
Here are the figures of his velocity from when he was 10 years old (when I started recording him)-
10 years old low= 47 mph
10 years old avg= 49 mph
10 years old high= 52 mph
11 years old low= 55 mph
11 years old avg= 58 mph
11 years old high= 62 mph
12 years old low= 63 mph
12 years old avg= 66 mph
12 years old high= 71 mph
I confirmed the calculations this year to within one mile an hour of accuracy when someone had a gun and actually measured while I was recording so i know it is fairly accurate when you can get the perfect frames of it leaving the hand and being caught ina frame and not inbetween. From my calculations I have been able to accuratley predict how much velocity my son should potentially be throwing year by year. Next year I calculate him to gain about 7 mph to his cruising speed (73 mph) and about 6 the more (79 mph)the year after that when he gets to high school level. It is a handy tool- them camcorders! Camcorders are a good investment to also gauge arm slot and how it relates to velocity and control issues.
I have since noticed through countless hours that arm slot variations have almost nothing to do with velocity, the same to be said with stride length and follow through. Some of my sons fastest pitches have come from the set position with a short stride with someone on first base. I think it is more mental than anything!
My rule of thumb is this- the catcher usually catches the ball in back of the plate at between two and three feet in back of the back of home plate. My son releases the ball at about 75% of his height away from the front of the rubber. My son being 5 foot 6 inches thus releases the ball in front of the pitching rubber at about 4 feet in front. So, according to a recent game he played in I can thus calculate approxiamtely how fast he was throwing. Here are the figures
54 feet from mound to plate- 4 feet for the release = 50 feet, Now add the 2 feet of the added catcher distance= 52 feet.
I counted the frames at 1/30 of a sec. and counted 16 frames from release to being caught. So-
52 feet divided by 16 frames equals 3.25 feet per frame
Then take 3.25 and times it by 30 which equals a rate of 97.5 feet per second.
Then take the 97.5 and times it by 3600 seconds (the amount of seconds in an hour) for a figure or rate of 351,000 feet per hour.
Then take the 351,000 rate and divide it by how many feet in a mile- 5280 and we get a mph reading of 66.4772
This is the average and now adding 3 mph gets me the velocity as it left his hand which would be approximately 69 mph.
Here are the figures of his velocity from when he was 10 years old (when I started recording him)-
10 years old low= 47 mph
10 years old avg= 49 mph
10 years old high= 52 mph
11 years old low= 55 mph
11 years old avg= 58 mph
11 years old high= 62 mph
12 years old low= 63 mph
12 years old avg= 66 mph
12 years old high= 71 mph
I confirmed the calculations this year to within one mile an hour of accuracy when someone had a gun and actually measured while I was recording so i know it is fairly accurate when you can get the perfect frames of it leaving the hand and being caught ina frame and not inbetween. From my calculations I have been able to accuratley predict how much velocity my son should potentially be throwing year by year. Next year I calculate him to gain about 7 mph to his cruising speed (73 mph) and about 6 the more (79 mph)the year after that when he gets to high school level. It is a handy tool- them camcorders! Camcorders are a good investment to also gauge arm slot and how it relates to velocity and control issues.
I have since noticed through countless hours that arm slot variations have almost nothing to do with velocity, the same to be said with stride length and follow through. Some of my sons fastest pitches have come from the set position with a short stride with someone on first base. I think it is more mental than anything!
does anyone use that stopwatch that homerun04 suggested? Does it really work?
I use my stopwatch at ball games all the time.
Maybe I will find it before spring.
Maybe I will find it before spring.
bear are you talking about a regular stop watch or the stop watch that converts to mph that homerun04 provided the link for a few posts back
GingerbreadMan,
You are spot on! Nice job. When you get a High-speed camera you will find you can get a reading out of the hand and across the plate for each type of pitch. Keep up the good work; high-speed video is the best tool for improving your kid’s mechanics.
How old do you figure your kid is Biologically? Late, middle or early?
You are spot on! Nice job. When you get a High-speed camera you will find you can get a reading out of the hand and across the plate for each type of pitch. Keep up the good work; high-speed video is the best tool for improving your kid’s mechanics.
How old do you figure your kid is Biologically? Late, middle or early?
hisbiggestfan - I have used the stopwatch that Homerun04 provided the link for at several events. I have used it side by side with a stalker gun and even got the same readings a few times. Purely by luck IMO! The reaction time required to start and stop the watch in order to get an accurate reading is almost superhuman, at least for me. If you do get it right, trying to repeat the task over and over a few times is frustrating at best. I wouldn't recommend buying one.
