Student-Athlete Compensation

NO !!!!!


They are getting and education at a great discount to begin with !!!

IMO, if the NCAA is going to keep their tax free status for being an institution for "student athletes", they should have the same academic standards for all sports. When I say that, I mean, if for example a baseball player has to have a 3.5 and a 26 ACT score to get a full ride with a 25% sports scholarship, so should a football player. If the NCAA would cut the number of football scholarships allowed down to 40% of the current roster number (same as baseball numbers) there would be plenty of money to fund all current sports rosters. Better yet, make all athletic scholarships worth the same % of room, board, and tuition no matter what the sport.

You want to see the Coach's salaries go down? That would do it. Want to see the kids' academic standards go up? That would do it! You want to see 100s of Ron Polk look and sound alikes in a real big hurry? That would do it!

Maybe then we could get the NCAA to look at how unfair 11.7 scholarships is compared to a roster of 27.

I think you are a little confused,

Flash

I look at it differently---my son(s)get a scholarship so I am getting a discount on the college education---each of them different degrees--- each are now in the business world-- was it a fit? --I would think so they all have their degrees---and the "fee" was in agreement with family needs

Forget the legal "BS"---is the kid happy--is he playing baseball--is he getting his degree?---it gets tiring to hear all this "sue this sue that talk"

I like it the way it is !!!

I like it the way it is also.

My son got compensated by way of scholarship, free help with academics, a lifetime of memories, free TV airtime which helped him to further his goal of playing professionally.

Telling people he played college ball has opened a lot of doors, worth alot more thn amy compensation.

If you want your sons to go to school for free, take up basketball or football or sokker or track and field. By the way, football/basketball supports players who also participate in other sports.

If you feel that your kids should be compensated to play baseball, work hard, get drafted and get paid. The MLB scholarship plan will pay for your college education.

Sorry, I do not feel that baseball players should be compensated by way of scholarship equally.

quote:

If you want your sons to go to school for free, take up basketball or football or sokker or track and field. By the way, football/basketball supports players who also participate in other sports.

I'm sorry, but this comment makes no sense to me. They still have to have talent in a given sport, don't they??? I don't think kids should be paid to play either, but they shouldn't be prevented from getting a job to help pay for their education.



"If you feel that your kids should be compensated to play baseball, work hard, get drafted and get paid. The MLB scholarship plan will pay for your college education."



This one makes no sense either. Not every kid is lucky enough to be able to play pro ball, but the NCAA is supposed to represent ALL student athletes, not just football and basketball players. I just think it should be an equal representation. Why should a football player that can't even dress for games be given a scholarship when a vital player for a baseball team might get 25%?

I understand that's the way it's been for awile now and used to be even worse as far as % given, but why does it have to stay that way? If anything ever does change, it will be long before I could benefit from it, but I still see it's not fair.

Yeah, yeah....life's not fair, but if people just sat by and let things stay the same, we'd be picking fruit for .03 a bushel or working in factories for .10 an hour.

quote:

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:

quote:

If you feel that your kids should be compensated to play baseball,



work hard,(guarantees nothing)

get drafted(small amount of the whole)

and get paid(tell that to the undrafted).

The MLB scholarship plan will pay for your college education.

at the University of Online Phoenix?

Put aside YOUR situation and take an objective view, or as us accountants say, "Follow the money".

I am only providing information, but given everyone but the student-athlete is raking tons of money in, funding baseball should occur.

By the way, the NCAA shot down the request for 14 grants from the 11.7 today. As their usual self, they brought their claws out and stated they will most likely reduce the amount of games played and the length of the season. Talk gets around about kids missing too much class and the whining about pitching depth needs due to the Uniform Start Date.

The institutions SAAC committees(students)worked hard for these grants and were summarily dismissed.

I agree! I also think that if things continue down the current path, travel ball may be played instead of college ball. A lot of folks just aren't going to be able to afford to send their kids to college full-time.

Question to those of you that know the answers. Is it possible for a college team to drop out of the NCAA, get their own sponsors and give out scholarships?

I can't put aside my situation, that's why I feel the way I do.
If I have a player who took all honors classes, did exceptionally well on the field why should he get the same compensation for one who didn't work as hard to earn that compensation?

My feeling goes beyond baseball, in the workplace as well. Healthcare, etc. I do not beleive that everyone should be compensated equally. I taught my kids, that you have to work hard for what you get in life, I don't expect them to be handed a free ride for anything, whether they can afford it or not.

Some blame Title IX, that's a whole differnt argument.

I am not going to get into the MLB scholarship plan, but do remember MLB offers free education.

"If you feel that your kids should be compensated to play baseball, work hard, get drafted and get paid. The MLB scholarship plan will pay for your college education."

You want free education? Yes, not all get the chance, so now it's your chance to work hard to get that chance, the same as it is to work hard and get a good baseball scholarship.


This one makes no sense either. Not every kid is lucky enough to be able to play pro ball, but the NCAA is supposed to represent ALL student athletes, not just football and basketball players. I just think it should be an equal representation. Why should a football player that can't even dress for games be given a scholarship when a vital player for a baseball team might get 25%?

You ever attend a college football game of 80K plus and a college baseball game of 100 or less? Who is paying the bills?

I understand that's the way it's been for awile now and used to be even worse as far as % given, but why does it have to stay that way?

Yes it could be worse, 5-10% was the norm or book money. If son needs more money, work harder for academic money.

Yeah, yeah....life's not fair, but if people just sat by and let things stay the same, we'd be picking fruit for .03 a bushel or working in factories for .10 an hour.


Life IS NOT fair, I agree, work hard and you get rewarded. I do not expect us to agree, if perhaps your son does someday play NCAA ball, maybe you might.

BTW, son got some nice gifts cards from the NCAA for winning in post season.

Who says the NCAA doesn't compensate their student athletes?

TPM , its alot easier to take the stand you take when you are in the situation you are in. Step outside your situation for a moment and think how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

Alot of kids work just as hard as others and in some cases harder and dont get the opportunity to play pro ball. Alot of kids work just as hard as others and in some cases harder and never make the grades that allow them to get academic money.

I agree life is not fair. Thats the reason sometimes people have to stand up and say "It aint fair!" Just because life is not fair does not mean you have to accept the fact its not fair. Baseball gets s*it on. And thats a fact. Yes you deal with it. But you dont have to agree with it and you dont have to sit back and be quiet about it either.

Everyones situation is different. But unless you have been directly effected by these "unfair" practices its hard to understand the feelings of those that have or are about to be.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
"If you feel that your kids should be compensated to play baseball, work hard, get drafted and get paid. The MLB scholarship plan will pay for your college education."

You want free education? Yes, not all get the chance, so now it's your chance to work hard to get that chance, the same as it is to work hard and get a good baseball scholarship.


This one makes no sense either. Not every kid is lucky enough to be able to play pro ball, but the NCAA is supposed to represent ALL student athletes, not just football and basketball players. I just think it should be an equal representation. Why should a football player that can't even dress for games be given a scholarship when a vital player for a baseball team might get 25%?

You ever attend a college football game of 80K plus and a college baseball game of 100 or less? Who is paying the bills?

I understand that's the way it's been for awile now and used to be even worse as far as % given, but why does it have to stay that way?

Yes it could be worse, 5-10% was the norm or book money. If son needs more money, work harder for academic money.

Yeah, yeah....life's not fair, but if people just sat by and let things stay the same, we'd be picking fruit for .03 a bushel or working in factories for .10 an hour.


Life IS NOT fair, I agree, work hard and you get rewarded. I do not expect us to agree, if perhaps your son does someday play NCAA ball, maybe you might.

You honestly believe that work ethic alone will get you in the MLB or an academic scholarship? You honestly believe that hard work is how people get rich in this country? I can tell you two things. My Daughter had virtually no social life as a High School student and worked her tail off in AP classes and she was accepted to a prestigious Engineering School, but got only a $1,000 scholarship! She now takes 18 hours per semester and is in her last two semesters of her Bachelors program and will stay for her Masters. She works extremely hard, and has a full-time job. It will payoff in the long run, but hard work didn't get her much of anything in the way of scholarship money, so "hard work" wasn't the answer there.

Secondly, I started working when I was 12 and once worked 3 full-time jobs at once for 2 years when I was 22 and 23 (I'm 50 now) and when you say "hard work" is the answer, it Ps me off! I've worked hard my whole life and I will have to go deep in debt to get both of my kids through college (I will not allow them to start out in debt).

I'm happy for you and your son that everything worked out in your favor, but please, don't judge success in life by how hard one works. If my Son was 6'2" and 200 pounds, he could write his own ticket, but he's not, so his "hard work" will more than likely get him a 25% scholarship. That is life and I will "work hard" to change the status quo in NCAA baseball while I can.

No, I don't want free education for all, but if the NCAA is about "student athletes", it should be an equal opportunity for all. 80,000 people go to those college games because it is hyped on TV by the NCAA. 17,000 people go to NBA games and 34,000 go to MLB games, why? 24,000 go to the University of Kentucky basketball games and 3 or 4 hundred go to their baseball games, why? The College World Series gets very good interest on TV, why? Since the Regionals have been on ESPN the crowds have grown tremendously at the sites. I believe baseball could be much better funded if it had night games and was hyped on ESPN like football and basketball, but until that happens we won't know for sure.

Powertoallfields,
I don't get your anger, what I do sense is a sense of entititlement, something I sense often from many parents these days.
If you feel that you have to go deep into dept to educate your children that is your decision. There are many options, the problem is that parents do not like those options for their children. What about staying close to home and attend JUCO for a few years? What about NOT playing a sport and working while in college? Why not attend a service academy? Why not attend a state school without the sport (much less expensive that going away to play or to a private school). Why not join an ROTC program where they will pay for your education in exchange for service time. Getting help to pay for school is not just limited to sports. If one chooses to go into debt, I don't want to hear aobut it.
My son worked in HS to help pay for expenses when he went to school, or to pay for things he needed in HS so we could save for school. Everyone has different situations and you don't know mine as I do not know yours. We are not rich people, but we knew what we could and could not afford and that included watching carefully in HS what we spent on extras, even if that meant missing out. The way I see it, there are a lot of folks who spend because they don't want their kids to miss out. JMO.

Sorry, but he didn't take it for granted he would get a good scholarship because he was big. You have no clue the sacrifices we have made or he has made, as you have no clue what others do as well. You have no clue at all.

This is the way it is and always will be, football and basketball is MUCH more profitable than baseball will ever be. That QB at a program that wins a few games is much more valuable than a programs pitcher who pitches a win for the men's NCAA baseball championship. If you feel that you can change that, all the more power to ya, do something about it other than posting here.

If one feels that their son is not getting what he deserves, that is up to the coach, minimum is 25%, he can give up to 100% if he wishes. The problem the way I see is that the NCAA should make each school fully fund their programs and scholarships for D3 schools as well. You can go after the NCAA for that.

BTW, there are many players that do get almost their entire education paid for, bb money and academic, some just academic more than you might imagine. And they are not all big or throw hard either.

Don't think that because of size that a player gets things handed to him. Don't ever say that because you don't know someone else's situation.

An interesting thread and I appreciate the input. This is certainly a passionate subject.

I have often felt it unfair that college athletes were restricted in their ability to generate income. If a kid doesn't have a full scholarship paying for tuition, room and board and books, he (she) should be allowed to work to make up the difference.

You also have to appreciate the NCAA's definition of 'work'. They have a concern that 'work' might be defined as 'rich booster's personal assistant' and pay very well (car, boat, $100K/yr, etc). The .1% who cheat screw it up for everyone else.

My son recently received a well rehersed speech from a scout, who told him "If you want a full scholarship to play sports, you have two choices. Be born a girl or play football. You obviously aren't a girl and you don't look like a football player, so your next best option is to study hard, get good grades and earn the academic scholarship. It doesn't bind them and it doesn't bind you. They'll let you come out and play, as they don't have anything to lose. If you keep good grades, you'll at least have an education when you're done. If you play well, they'll invite you back out. And son, they always seem to find spots for tall, hard throwing, left handed pitchers. You keep playing and guys like me will find you."

OS8,
I added a happy face to my post about the gift card, just to let you all know that sometimes the NCAA does reconize players.
They also give players shirts, sweaters and other stuff, not sure if any of your kids have been recipients, it's just little stuff, but sometimes that little stuff is appreciated.
You can do your homework and see that the NCAA gives out those type of awards, but they cannot exceed a certain amount. I do believe you can go onto the BCS bowl payout board to see what the football players get. They also pay for meals and hotel costs and transportation to NCAA playoffs and championship games. There is a per cost per player, with money added from the schools athletic department as well.
This includes gifts for winning regionals and supe regionals in baseball, in football it is for BCS bowl games and not sure what for other sports (not conference wins).

You weren't aware of this? Who do you think pays for the teams who make the playing field? Do you think that schools can afford to fly their teams to Omaha, live for a week or two in 200 a day hotel rooms? Or one small D1 school on the east coast playing in a super regional in california can afford to send their team?

BTW, the NCAA does NOT pay out scholarship awards, individual schools do.

Coach May,
Would I feel differently if son received a very small scholarhsip...no.
Would I feel differently if son never went to play pro ball..no.
If he wanted to go to play for a school for nothing because that is where he wanted to go to school and earn his degree that's what he would do. We'd find the way to pay for that school or he wouldn't go and hopefully he would be happy and we wouldn't ***** about it or blame the NCAA. I also wouldn't spend my life savings on showcases, travel teams, tournaments, lessons so he could get a 10% scholarship either, we'd do it because he enjoyed playing baseball. We'd send him to school where we could afford it.
My son's dream school was 40K a year (back then). back then we told him doubt if he could go, unless he wanted to help pay for it. He worked hard as he could in school for needed academic money for state school or for that private school.
If you want to argue that baseball gets the shaft from NCAA, then I will support that, but I don't support those that use that as an excuse. I know plenty of kids who went onto play sports in college with less scholarships than some of our kids and never heard a word or complaint. For some reason, baseball brings out that argument. Many players have options to go play pro ball after HS but then their argument becomes unless you pay my son a million or more he isn't going to give up college.
Do you see my point?
Not that I do not disagree with some points, and do not mean to insult anyone, this is just the way I see it. Parents want the NCAA to pay for their kids education, the NCAA does not do that, it only allows for a player to comepete within the college environment. The argument should be taken up with those that give the scholarships. Do you think that if the NCAA allowed 27 scholarships that the schools would even fully fund them? No way, they don't have the money to fund because they could never make it back. Some schools don't even fully fund their football programs.

Hope that this makes my point clear.

BTW who says you can't work, didn't bobblehead say his son works? Don't kids work summers to earn money? My son worked, he worked one summer at camp and worked at the cape for money to pay for his room and board, is that not allowed?



JMO.

quote:

what I do sense is a sense of entititlement

You did not just say this to me!!! I have never asked, taken, wanted something for nothing in my life! That, to me, is an entitlement! When you see one kid getting treated differently, no matter what the reason, you should be angry!

Analogy; two people go to a restaurant and order the same meal. After the meal is over, they each give the waitress an NCAA gift card for $25 to pay the check. One person gets the card back with $25 on it and is told, "it's on the house!" The other gets $5 back. They both have full bellies, but one is $20 richer than the other. Would you say that was fair? If I am the one that gets the card back with $5 on it, I don't want the $20 back! I want the other person to pay his $20 too! Does it matter how each earned the $25 in the first place? The restaurant is the college, the meal is the education, the waitress is the NCAA, one kid is a football player, the other is a baseball player. Is it still fair?

I'd be fine if there were NO sports scholarships! I'd be fine if all got the same %!

I don't like the fact that CEOs in this country make 1500 times what the average worker makes either. Why do they make that much money? According to you, it's because they "worked hard" to get where they are. BS! They get those amounts because their buddies sit on the compensation board. Do I think everyone in a company deserves the same pay? NO WAY!!! However, when two people buy the same product, it should cost the same and it should come out of your own pocket!

You're right, I don't know your situation or the sacrifices you've made as a family. You don't know mine. But when you say "hard work" is the answer to all the problems in the world, you're just full of "s"! You've been blessed. Be thankful! But, please, don't demean others' efforts by saying they didn't work hard enough! What you have is a blessing and can be gone in the blink of an eye.

Oh, by the way, we have come to the realization that Junior College is probably going to have to be the route my Son will have to take. They get 24 scholarships by the way. Go figure! Most of them don't have football teams either. How dooo they do it???

So let me get this straight, you feel that everyone should get the same thing?

Why?

Does that mean that everyone has the right to attend Harvard, Yale and Princeton?

Power,
If you worked in a department in your job and your deparment brought in most of the revenue for that business, do you think that you, as a member of that department should make more than those in the other? They should reap the rewards while you make all the money for the company?
We have two departments where I work, the ones who make the most for the company get more money. I work just as hard as they do, but I don't make what they make, bring the customers they do, they are essentially supporting me as well if I don't cover my salary.
Good analogy?

Because football and basketball do. In the business world, the companies gidget dept made more that the gadget dept but the line workers were paid the same and the profits went to the General fund.

When scholarships are divied up in percentages you develop a class system within the program. From a strictly "team" perspective it could cause some turmoil.

With that said, we were blessed with being "upper class" so I won't argue with the system the way it is. Selfish...yes. Do I lose sleep because others should have been compensated better....no. But that doesn't mean it's right. I know of 1 school back when the son was recruiting that offered 50% across the board meaning 23 guys on scholarship and the rest were preferred walk-ons who most likely had some Academic money coming their way. It is actually football on a 50% scale. They weren't very good though....no quality pitching.

Funny thing is that most players couldn't care who gets more or who gets less and most don't even think about it or care. They are where they want to be and happy with being on the team.

It's parents that have a problem dealing with it.

Some schools do give everyone the same...25%. I don't think the argument is with baseball being divided up, but rather should be the same across the board for every sport and that the NCAA should pay for it.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Power,
If you worked in a department in your job and your deparment brought in most of the revenue for that business, do you think that you, as a member of that department should make more than those in the other? They should reap the rewards while you make all the money for the company?
We have two departments where I work, the ones who make the most for the company get more money. I work just as hard as they do, but I don't make what they make, bring the customers they do, they are essentially supporting me as well if I don't cover my salary.
Good analogy?

Your analogy just doesn't get it. How do you explain the number of scholarships Ice Hockey gets? In your analogy, two people in the company that bring in no money, but one wears skates all day so he gets 75% more than the other. In your analogy, if a woman and a man had the same job and didn't make the same amount, you would be upset, right? Well, now, women are getting more for the same non revenue job (20 full rides for women's crew). How many female students are on a women's crew team anyway? Do you know of any HS women's crew teams in the country? Where did that logic come from? Where did Title IX come from? Is it a good thing? Are more women able to go to college?

The NCAA is not funding any of this, why do they decide how many scholarships an institution can give out for any given sport? Why not allow the entire roster? They aren't saying a school has to fund it fully. They don't now, right?

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Funny thing is that most players couldn't care who gets more or who gets less and most don't even think about it or care.

IMHO players care if someone is not carrying their weight in relation to what they are receiving because that share could be coming their families way. These guys are competitive warriors, it may not be a priority, but it is in their head. The top scholly guys don't hear the talk because its usually conversations about them.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The NCAA is not funding any of this, why do they decide how many scholarships an institution can give out for any given sport? Why not allow the entire roster? They aren't saying a school has to fund it fully. They don't now, right?

IMO. Because the "gatekeeper" (ncaa) sees it as the only way to preserve some sort of parity. IMO as it sits now the perenial powers have a huge edge because of weather and boosters. The NCAA with it's scholly limits is keeping those with the cash flow in hand from buying out the complete stock of players.

powertoallfields, your thought process is right on target, but reality and the powers will not let that happen. When that happens, lines are drawn, and no ones usually happy, but the band plays on

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
So let me get this straight, you feel that everyone should get the same thing?

Why?

Does that mean that everyone has the right to attend Harvard, Yale and Princeton?

No! I don't think everyone should get to go to those schools, but yes, they should have the right to apply. You didn't really mean that, did you?

What you aren't getting is that the product is the same. It costs each student within an institution the same amount for tuition. Why should one get to go for free just because an outside entity says they can and another can't?

In your analogy, the U.S. Government would be the outside entity that said the folks in your Department can't make over minimum wage no matter how much money the company makes and the folks in another Department always have to make 75% more than the others.

My son told me he only knew of what one player got and that was his BF.
No one discusses their scholarship, as far as he was concerned, they were all in it together.

Powertoallfields,
Now you are bringing in Title IX, I am not gonna get into that one. That was about evening up woman's opportunities in college sports and yes giving them more opportunities to go to school on scholarships. What does it matter if crew is played after college, what does it matter if baseball is played after college? I don't want to get into woman's vs. men's sports in college.
IMO, regardless of being a male or female the right person gets the job.
The NCAA has to impose limits on how many scholarships one can have, or you would have the rich schools with more players and the not so rich with less.
I said that the NCAA should make them fully fund, but the NCAA cannot tell a school how to spend their money.
If I was sending son off to a school and there were 11.7 and the coach is using 4, I would have a problem with that school not the NCAA. That's where the imbalance is, especially in BB. It's coaches allowed budgets (from their athletic departments) that creates unequal competition.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The NCAA is not funding any of this, why do they decide how many scholarships an institution can give out for any given sport? Why not allow the entire roster? They aren't saying a school has to fund it fully. They don't now, right?

IMO. Because the "gatekeeper" (ncaa) sees it as the only way to preserve some sort of parity. IMO as it sits now the perenial powers have a huge edge because of weather and boosters. The NCAA with it's scholly limits is keeping those with the cash flow in hand from buying out the complete stock of players.

powertoallfields, your thought process is right on target, but reality and the powers will not let that happen. When that happens, lines are drawn, and no ones usually happy, but the band plays on

rz,

I thought that was what Division I, II, III were supposed to do? High school ball is no different, the big well funded schools dominate in sports, but at least they usually are separated from the others by talent. The only difference is that a small school can end up competeing on the same level as the big ones if they can fund their own program (via fundraisers, big donors, etc.).

quote:

If I was sending son off to a school and there were 11.7 and the coach is using 4, I would have a problem with that school not the NCAA. That's where the imbalance is, especially in BB. It's coaches allowed budgets (from their athletic departments) that creates unequal competition.

This is my point! The limits don't do what they were designed to do in the first place. Let the free market work! The Yankees don't win the World Series every year, heck they can't even win the division. Let the institution decide how many scholarships they want to give out. If they don't give enough, they may not win, but that's their choice. The NCAA shouldn't be regulating roster size either. Is the Government going to tell a company how many workers it can hire??? Guess what? If they hire too many, they might go out of business.

quote:

I thought that was what Division I, II, III were supposed to do?

I think there are other distinctions conference wise and the defined # of official sports a school has determines those divisional separations. If I read you right, in your scenario Southern schools for the most part would be your D1. I think the external cash cows (boosters) of the South and West in part forces the NCAA with the baseball practices now in place.

No it does not cost the same for each student, it cost more for out of state players than for in state.
I agree you make some good points. I may have even felt that same at one point until mine went off to school and I noticed that there is a BIG difference between baseball and football. Did I think that mine deserved a full scholarship like football and basketball players, no. Do I think that baseball is just as important as football, no. Do I think that the NCAA knows what they are doing all of the time, no, do I think they did right by my son, yes.
Most importantly, with or without scholarship was my son happy where he went to school, yes. To us that was worth more than "free".
BTW, anyone interested you can do a search and there is (or was)scholarship money available for your kids, eg., my company at the time gave max 4K for each one of our kids, my son was too lazy to fill out the info and write his essay and we didn't need it at the time.

quote:

No it does not cost the same for each student, it cost more for out of state players than for in state.

Out of State students are charged more for tuition but does their tuition cost more?

If NCAA didn't restict limits on number of scholarships, things would be crazy, as suggested the richer conference schools would even over power the smaller ones more than they do now.
Here's an example, one ACC school used to fund 4 scholarships for baseball, which brings them to the bottom of the chain. Now with 25% that means they must fund more than the 4, while the other conference schools fully fund.

I don't know that answer, the budget for each player is average COA but I don't think that means that all get the same amount of funds released come scholarship time. My understanding is that the more OS players one has, the bigger the budget based on COA. That's why some schools may accept more out of state admissions than other schools, brings up the cost of each player.
Another thing that is interesting, someone might post that link for powertoallfields so they can see what each school spends per athlete. That's not mandated by the NCAA.
Sometimes we blame the NCAA for some programs short comings.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

I thought that was what Division I, II, III were supposed to do?

I think there are other distinctions conference wise and the defined # of official sports a school has determines those divisional separations. If I read you right, in your scenario Southern schools for the most part would be your D1. I think the external cash cows (boosters) of the South and West in part forces the NCAA with the baseball practices now in place.

The way I look at it, there is already separation of talent and powers. The best players get to go to the powers and the powers choose the players they want. There is no way to keep that from happening with any limitation on roster size or scholarship amount. We have the same problems in High School ball in our city. The best players want to go to a school with a winning tradition and in baseball the best public schools (government funded schools) beat the private schools ($10,000 per year tuition) on a regular basis. The only thing those limits do in college, is mandate that some players won't get their education paid for no matter what school they choose.

Should there not be a seperation?
By the way, there have been some changes that have occured, college baseball is changing.
For example, why has a small school like Coastal Carolina (no football) become successful in baseball. There is no rich football program to support it.

The bottom line is that I do not think that the NCAA is the big bad wolf and that all sports are created equal and all players within those sports are created equal. That doesn't make it right or wrong that's just my opinion regardless of son's height,weight, velocity or batting average it wouldn't change my opinion.
I also do know that playing sports beyond HS doesn't make you better than anyone else, and that in the end, there is life after baseball. Sports in college is just one piece of the pie and should never define you or who you are as a person. Your education and degree is more important than any college or pro outing, and that should be the first consideration and priority, always.
JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Should there not be a seperation?
By the way, there have been some changes that have occured, college baseball is changing.
For example, why has a small school like Coastal Carolina (no football) become successful in baseball. There is no rich football program to support it.

Yes, I think there should be separation, but by talent level or competition level, not by size of school or some other criteria that makes no sense. In USSSA and AAU travel ball they have divisions based on talent level and it works really well. The facts you give about Coastal Carolina kind of even helps my arguement. The institution has decided that baseball is a valueable asset and has funded it accordingly and they didn't need a football team to do it. An instiution like that could probably fund a full roster and even compete for the World Series on a year in and year out basis, they already do pretty darn well. Baseball may even work better in smaller schools without football teams, because it doesn't take as much to fund a baseball team as it does a football team.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The way I look at it, there is already separation of talent and powers.
Absolutely, but that has been diminishing somewhat over the years due to improved commitment from the non-hotbed schools. If the schools make a commitment for quality programs and that shows better parity maybe the NCAA is nudged to do their part in narrowing the gap. Not a perfect world, no perfect solutions.

The best players get to go to the powers and the powers choose the players they want. There is no way to keep that from happening with any limitation on roster size or scholarship amount.
From a college perspective I would have to disagree. Northern players have improved over the years and the tendencies are to stay close to home for school, thus school programs will improve

We have the same problems in High School ball in our city. The best players want to go to a school with a winning tradition and in baseball the best public schools (government funded schools) beat the private schools ($10,000 per year tuition) on a regular basis. The only thing those limits do in college, is mandate that some players won't get their education paid for no matter what school they choose.
HS/College as in apples/oranges you can't really draw comparisons. IMHO. Besides, while baseball is a passion it is not a realistic profession for at least 95% of the college players. If you are choosing your school because of the baseball tradition and success you are not being realistic about your future.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
The bottom line is that I do not think that the NCAA is the big bad wolf and that all sports are created equal and all players within those sports are created equal. That doesn't make it right or wrong that's just my opinion regardless of son's height,weight, velocity or batting average it wouldn't change my opinion.
I also do know that playing sports beyond HS doesn't make you better than anyone else, and that in the end, there is life after baseball. Sports in college is just one piece of the pie and should never define you or who you are as a person. Your education and degree is more important than any college or pro outing, and that should be the first consideration and priority, always.
JMO.

I agree with almost all of this. The thing is, all football players get the same scholarship % and everyone knows the QB is the most important position. As far as women's crew goes, I was talking about before college not after. I could maybe see funding it if their was a sport in High School, but I don't think there is. I was just wondering where that thought process came from. It just seems strange to me.