Ted Williams said in The Science of Hitting: "I didn’t have to keep a written book on pitchers—I lived a book on pitchers."
The ballplayers on our HS varsity team, including my son, don't seriously study pitchers.
Maybe it's age, a bit of youthful arrogance, or coaching ...I don't know.
Do your HS players understand the importance of studying pitchers from the dugout and while on deck?
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jp24;
a few weeks ago before Torii Hunter, one of our Goodwill Series players, called to discuss baseball and as always hitting.
Torii related the story, as a Rookie with the Twins, Paul Molitor told Torii to take a batting helmet and turn it around to see the pitcher thru the ear holes.
This develops "fine focus" and concentration on the pitcher and nothing else.
When Delmon Young, age 15 was with our teams in Australia, I listen to Delmon #3 hitter tell the two 18 year old hitters #1 and #2, how the Australian pitcher was going to pitch to each batter.
Charlie Silveria, the former Yankees and Tiger catcher told me that they could feel
Ted Williams eyes 300" away to the Tiger bull pen watching the pitcher "warm up".
Question, can this be taught or are you born with this ability to search for the extra edge? This is the 6th tool. I think it can be taught, if the player will listen.
He needs the desire to be the best.
The 95 mph fast ball and the slider or hard curve has no "mercy".
Bob
See ball, hit ball. That's all the studying that needs to take place.
jp24 - frustrates me too. Neither pitchers nor hitters do a good job for the most part in reading their opponents. Tendencies are very predictable at this age, but for whatever reason they are not taken advantage of.
Question, can this be taught or are you born with this ability to search for the extra edge? This is the 6th tool. I think it can be taught, if the player will listen.
Bob - That is so true. I never thought of it as the sixth tool...you are so right. In any sporting competition (or life or business) the goal is to maximize your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. It can be taught but I think for some it is in their DNA.
Coach 3;
Years ago, when I faced Bob Gibson in the Basin League, I honestly did not see the ball.
It looked like a aspirin. I went by sound!
Bob
Coach 3;
Years ago, when I faced Bob Gibson in the Basin League, I honestly did not see the ball.
It looked like a aspirin. I went by sound!
Bob
I don't doubt it. That's where the other saying "You can't hit what you can't see" comes into play.
See ball, hit ball. That's all the studying that needs to take place.
That's the approach for sure. But you're not saying elite players don't study pitchers' release, tendencies, etc, right?
Coach,
actually the pitch sound outside and I placed the bat on the corner and the ball went over the RF fence.
Bob
See ball, hit ball. That's all the studying that needs to take place.
That's the approach for sure. But you're not saying elite players don't study pitchers' release, tendencies, etc, right?
I'm speaking at the HS level. To not over think it and jump on first good pitch you can do some damage with. As a coach, I will study pitchers tendencies and find when they tip certain pitches or when they will pick off or what they will throw on 0-2/1-2 count. Most HS pitchers will stick to the same pitches and locations when they get ahead in the count. I will then ask my players what they think he will pitch next and why. A lead by example kind of thing but always try to find teachable situations.
Coach,
actually the pitch sound outside and I placed the bat on the corner and the ball went over the RF fence.
Bob
I wish I could see that. Do you happen to have film of it?
Only an old yellow newspaper clipping.
Ron Perranoski later a Dodger pitcher was one of our pitchers.
Bob
Who walked with the W that day? Gibson or Perranoski?
I don't know about MLB.
IMO, not very many HS batters study the pitcher while in the dugout or on-deck. By "study", I mean concentrating hard on the pitcher; not merely watching him.
I'm fine with that because I think most HS batters would think too much if they studied.
Starting to think you and Coach3 are right. This is from a recent Buster Olney Column on Hanley Ramirez:
"Hanley Ramirez attends the meetings that the Dodgers hold for the hitters at the outset of every series to go over scouting reports, but he does this to be respectful and polite of the process and not because he actually gleans information. He does not study video, either.
“None,” he said Saturday as he waited his turn in batting practice.
He does not care to know the identity of the opponent's starting pitcher, Ramirez said, until he is preparing for his first at-bat -- and even then, as he watches the pitcher throw to the first batters of the game, what Ramirez only wants to know is how hard the pitcher is throwing, and how much his fastball moves.
Some hitters, like the Reds’ Joey Votto, want to know everything possible about a pitcher, like his typical choices in specific ball-strike counts. But Ramirez has worked alongside two of the greatest right-handed hitters of his era, Manny Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera, and decided that for him, less is more; Derek Jeter is the same way.
Ted Williams said in The Science of Hitting: "I didn’t have to keep a written book on pitchers—I lived a book on pitchers."
The ballplayers on our HS varsity team, including my son, don't seriously study pitchers.
Maybe it's age, a bit of youthful arrogance, or coaching ...I don't know.
Do your HS players understand the importance of studying pitchers from the dugout and while on deck?
Were they ever taught the importance of studying the pitcher?
Ted Williams said in The Science of Hitting: "I didn’t have to keep a written book on pitchers—I lived a book on pitchers."
The ballplayers on our HS varsity team, including my son, don't seriously study pitchers.
Maybe it's age, a bit of youthful arrogance, or coaching ...I don't know.
Do your HS players understand the importance of studying pitchers from the dugout and while on deck?
Were they ever taught the importance of studying the pitcher?
No, not really, in HS.That's why I'm curious about how important this is to HS coaches here.
I take the time to talk to my hitters all the time about the importance of seeing the pitcher. Many of them haven't been taught HOW to study so we talk about that as well.
Redbird,
did you notice my conversation with Torii Hunter. Study the pitcher with a batting helmet
ask questions of the hitters before you in the line-up.
Question: how good do you want to be?
Are you satisfied to hit .300, why not .400?
Bob
I agree that studying is different than merely watching from on deck circle. HS players do not have the luxury of film like college and pros. Mark McGuire was another one who didn't even look at the pitcher when on deck. I can't say if he studied film of pitchers or not.
Like I said, I want my HS kids to watch the opposing pitcher, but also know what they are looking for. With that, I do not try and put any unnecessary pressure on my players. My motto, once again, is find something you can drive and drive it. Have confidence in the process and approach.
Coach3;
the key is to reduce the pitcher's ability to control to one or two pitches for strikes.
Reduce to one pitch starting with his "warm up" in the bull pen.
Bob
Coach3;
the key is to reduce the pitcher's ability to control to one or two pitches for strikes.
Reduce to one pitch starting with his "warm up" in the bull pen.
Bob
In HS, typically that one pitch is a 4 seam. If HS pitchers can throw anything other than a fastball for a strike 75% of the time or more, he is miles ahead of his peers. Heck, some HS players it's tough to just throw that fastball for a strike 75% of the time. That's typically the pitch I tell my players to jump on. See one first for timing, if needed, but hack away at it. Run that pitcher off early if we can.
Now, in college/pros when pitchers have 3+ pitches that are lights out, I feel it would be highly beneficial for players to watch how the pitcher pitches each batter.
