Stuggles before High School

Just a few thought son the situation based on what you have presented.

If your son's HS coach is any good at all, he will evaluate your son fairly and he will be given every chance, regardless of what these "Daddy" coaches have told him.

Second, if it were me, I would find another team, regardless of the competition. If these coaches are berating instead of encouraging and teaching, he will be better served on a team with quality men. The competition aspect will take care of itself whenever he hits HS anyway.

If he is better at a position that these coaches will not allow him to play, he should go out and work at the position on his own (with dad, mom or friends) so that he will be ready for HS tryouts.

Tell your child to relax at the plate on in the field. You can't play "tight" and these "Daddy" coaches opinions are not relevant to his future success.

Good luck!

Wow!! 14U and just getting introduced to Daddy ball. I'm amazed it took that long for you to discover the seamy undersiade!!! LOL. I would start looking for a new team for your son. I think too many years with the same coaches can stagnate a player's development. Especially at those ages. Just because Tommy was the SS at 10 doesn;t mean he should still play SS at 14. Too many youth coaches slot kids where they think they fit best and never adjust that thinking when players either develop or level off. I've seen it both ways.

Time to find a new team.

I would make sure you are not jumping from one bad situation to another. Investigate your move. Things can get worse.
I have seen guys move and it can go either way. I can think of a couple guys who moved on to better situations and one ,a cather made all conference in his freshman year at a JC.

quote:

has developed a negative attitude like he doesn't think he is going to ever make the highschool team because of what they all say.

Fam 321,
This site has varying opinions on all topics some you want to hear and some you don't. But, always remember, you asked.

I'm not writing this it in stone, but your first 2 posts sound like a Dad who is frustrated in the moment and looking for Utopia. It's not there. If he is playing U14 and you have not experienced this yet you may be jumping the gun on your assessment of the future and (this is where it gets a little saucy) your negative look on the situation may be affecting your sons negative outlook. At 13 or 14 kids don't know how HS baseball works or the political sides of youth sports in general, what they do learn is the way Dad is looking at things.

I am by no means saying you are out of line or incorrect in your assessment, what I am saying is thatmaybe you should relax a little and don't dwell on the "can'ts", "showboating", "won't", "favorite", and "leave" type words because that is most likely the picture he is picking up. If he was the star this would not be an issue, it does sound like he has some tools on a good team and is in the "mix". The last thing I want is to have this come accross as a rip, it is not. It is just an honest, unknowing interputation from an old guy who went through these battles from both sides years ago.

Yes, you could go from bad to worse. Then again, you could go from bad to great. My kid plays for a guy that she enjoys playing for. He doesn't coach to win. He doesn't scream at the kids. He doesn't play favorites. Heck, he coached our team this past summer and his daughter couldn't play because she had fractured her leg. My kid can play for numerous teams in our area. She WANTS to play for the coach that she presently does. In doing so, she knows she has support from a person that cares about the kid and not the win. Ironically, we do a whole lot of winning because of that. My child played for a couple of teams and I can say the same about the other coach as well. You can't say enough about positive feedback for effort.

Look for a new team now. It will only get worse with the coaches son as the team gets older and more is at steak. We learned the hard way. Now have our older son on a team where no parent is a coach. We went out and found one, a bit of a drive but worth not having the constant agrevation!

I appreciate the feedback. I don't take it as a rip at all. That's what this forum is for. I'm glad to hear all sides.

We have actually stopped saying anything in front of our son because we saw the affects it was having on him. It was a little hard this last year because they would take the kids away from the parents to talk after games, and the kids would say the F word was being used quite often. I thougt it was just my kid being a baby. I was actually being hard on him and kept saying you have to prove yourself if you want more playing time. But seeing him go 30 games with out striking out and parents complimenting us on his diving catches I decided to back off and just enjoy the game. We have conversed with other parents on the team and realized there kids were commenting as well on the F word being used quite frequntly especially used when the kids didn't win or made a bad play. I'm not sure if this happens on other teams or not.

Thanks for all the thoughts!

quote:

Originally posted by family321:
My son is on a U14 team where the coaches are more concerned about showboating their own son. They are pretty negative based. They often curse at the kids and tell them how bad they are and very few times offer encouragement. My son loves baseball but, has developed a negative attitude like he doesn't think he is going to ever make the highschool team because of what they all say.

I would find a new team, even if its just a rec league.

It doesn't matter how good he could be if the coaches beat the love of the game out if him.

321 -

Your in a tough position, but not an uncommon position for most...

In my area it is RARE to find a youth team which is not coached by a daddy or daddies... If you can find one, and the coaches are good, consider youself LUCKY and seriously consider a move.. But if you change teams, you maybe in the same situation? You probably know the other teams from competing against them and know the players that they field... This should help you with the decision in figuring out where your son would fit in, if you move....

I would suggest, as did TR, that with this issue you have an EXECLLENT opportunity to bond with your son.. GO TO WORK YOU AND HIM ALONE and help him become the ball player that he desires... He'll love you forever for it...

I learned this lesson a lot sooner than 14 and so I instilled in my eldest son (as I have his 2 younger siblings) that he must be twice as good as any other player, because I'm not a "political" kind of guy... If he wants it he has to earn it! I won't b-nose for him - it's up to him... We work out together routinely and I hope that when I'm 70 we can still throw together...

My son never pitched or played short stop until he was 13, now at 15, good lord willin', he's got a shot at the varsity ss position and will help the varsity squad as a pitcher...

You may not find a sweet encouraging coach at the high school level either... Most of these guy's are tough, so you should prepare him for that as well...

To me it sound's like it's going to be up to you to keep him MOTIVATED, POSITIVE and in the game... Do it!!!!

Family321,
Ask yourself –“What can I do to make the situation better?” While moving to another team is an option, I wouldn’t be too quick to jump. Strange as it may seem most parents are faced with the same situation sooner or later if they have a son that plays sports. How the parents handle it can make a huge difference in the outcome for the son. The way you talk to your son about his coach is going to be the way your son sees it. I think parents should act as an interpreter to help their son understand the coach/player relationships. Parents can use these negative incidents; not to polarize the player from the coach, but rather as an opportunity to explain that the player alone is responsible for his own success and never blame someone else for their failures.
Bad attitude? The player with the bad attitude is the fault of the player and has noting to do with the coach. EVER! That’s a cop out. Parents need to teach that a good work ethic and being coachable allows a player to succeed and is not dependant on whether the coach is playing favorites. I can remember having a conversation about a coach that was loud and harsh on his players (my son too). My son was hurt by the negative coaching and the only thing I knew to say was to ignore the method he used because the coach was really trying to make him a better ball player. My son accepted his coaching style and did grow from that experience. Moving will always be an option but one that should be exercised with caution.
Fungo

I agree with Fungo, Not all coaching in baseball is perfect.
But sometime's a player has to go thru a few to understand
that it's not alway's fair.
But if you work hard thing's will work out for the best.

I do believe in not having a parent as a coach.
After 12 yr's. old.
The player need's to grow without dad in the corner.JMHO
EH

Family321,
Baseball is a journey. At 14 your son is still in the early stages of that journey. The most important thing you can do is focus on why he plays, and that should be for the love of the game. Focus on the positive aspects of the team, his play and what hard work, determination and perseverance mean.

My son played travel ball at 14 and the experience was not a very good one but for different reasons than what your son is going through. My son is a pitcher and had the opportunities but really struggled with his control. At the national tournament his team played 6 games and he did not play at all. For both of us this was an emotially tough situation, but what we talked about was why he played and his desire to continue playing. When your 14 it's hard to understand why these thing happen, but they do. The next year he tried out for the same team and did not make it, so at that point he stayed in town and played Jr and Sr Legion. For the past 2 years he's been the number one pitcher in our town for both High School and Sr. Legion. This past year in HS he was All State and Legion zone pitcher of the year. He's a freshman in college and is on the roster of a D1 program.

We all mature from these situations, just keep your focus on the positive aspects of why he plays and work hard.
Good Luck

Fungo, thank you for another great post.

My .02, but probably not worth that much.

What you're decribing is not just daddy ball, where the coach(es) give preference to his son. A coach of 13/14 year olds that berates his players, swears at them and essentially paralyzes them with the fear of making a mistake in execution, is guilty of much more than "daddyball." He is doing a disservice to every player on his team, including his own son. You really should question whether he is even suited to work with kids that young. We're not talking about a high school varsity coach that's just taking a "tough" approach with his players.

My son played several years of tournament/travel ball with a similar coach. The coach was never selectively brutal to my son, but he was sometimes downright nasty to some of the other players, verbally undressing them across the diamond in the middle of a game. The man knew the game, but he was a mass of negativity. I never said a word to him about years of his preferential placement of his son and one of the assistant coach's son, but about a week after one particularly scathing, protracted verbal assault of a 14 year old at first who missed a foul flyball, I talked to him about his treatment of his players. To his credit, he seemed to try to change his approach, albeit briefly. His true colors returned when the team was eliminated in a state level tournament.

An archrival team was run completely differently. In watching the two teams play against each other at least twenty times over the years, I never saw the opposing coach berate his players in front of each other, in front of our team, or in front of the parents/fans. That team is still together.

Ironically, now that my son attends the same high school as the sons of his old travel coaches, he plays shortstop and gets to pitch regularly.

Look for a new team, now. See if you can get him a look from one of the teams you've seen him play against.

2008 Beebe - your .02 is worth more than most. Fabulous post and welcome to the hsbbweb btw

Wow, what a great thread!

As I read through the posts here, I see many of our "frequent posters" and Old-Timers giving great advice. But it is also really wonderful to see newer members or those with smaller number of posts also sharing their perspective and their experiences.


Julie

Jazzman,

I really like the message of your post..I am so happy for your son!

At least, this is the moral I derive from your story: At 14, it is WAY to early to give up or give in. If you love the game and work hard, opportunities will arise.

My own son, when he was on a 14u travel team had limited play time. Now nearly 17, he is the ace of his staff. Looking back, I now realize I took 14u ball WAY too seriously. Kids develop at different ages. At least I'm glad my son didn't take it too seriously, and perservered, and is stronger because of it! He handled it better than dad!

It will get better! Hang in there!

.
Family 321…

Good advice so far...My take is a little different...I take the big picture...

For me 14 is old enough to start to learn about adult life...Whether you leave him on the team...or take him off...is not as important as the lessons learned and the honest continued communication between parent and player. I’d make him think. While hard...Pain and frustration opens the doors to learning.

First, I would welcome my son to the real world. I would let him know that like it or not you're likely to run into this type of unfair situation and this unfair type of boss, unfair politics many times in the future. Just so you know...Get used to it. Many times people are going to try to keep you down for their own selfish purposes and egos...And I am not always going to be here to solve things, but you will be.

Second, I would sit with him and have a talk about the difference between victim and victor. About who wins when you take that “down” role and what that means for the rest of life. There are many times in life when no one is going to appreciate your skills or your hard work. YOU need to learn take pride in your own efforts. You may go down but you need learn to hold up your end in every situation and if you do so you can always hold your head high. Tough situations don’t last. Tough people do.

Now, if you're willing you have two courses of action…

First, option...Sometimes it is the lack of communication that is the problem. Go directly to the source. Express your concerns/frustrations to the coach/boss...Establish a direct line of communication and find out what his views are and what you can do to get more playing time. If he gives you clear goals...Work your tail off and perform yourself beyond the political bubble, which many times in real life may be the only option. At 14 I would offer as a parent to go to this meeting, but I would let my son know that in the end it is his battle, not mine.

Second option…Move teams...now if need be...or later if the coach does not live up to his part of the goals bargain. Moving teams/companies/schools/spouses may not always be an option. And if you do move I would be very careful to choose the right situation...you may be out of the frying pan into the fire, other kids and other parents on other teams may not want to give up their spots.

Your choice kid. I’ll support you in any action.

Mine was comforted as a 12 year old to know that I had his back, and relieved to know that there were options. Mine chose to confront his demons, and up his work ethic. In the end he came away a starter and a bunch of life experience. He is currently using these same life skills in college ball when others stayed “down” he outworked the competition.

But had he chosen another option? There were still life lessons to learn...win or lose.

I’d wish you luck but it’s not about luck. It’s about hard work and learning the skills needed at the next level of ball...or life.


44
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There are shades of gray throughout this thread. I have known coaches who were even-handed and instilled confidence and taught baseball and were great. I have known coaches who were abrubt, negative, at times instilled fear -- and at other times love -- and were great. I have known coaches who were fathers and who favored their sons and coaches who were fathers who were tougher on their sons, including in the distribution of playing time. Some were just okay, but most I encountered were great. I have hardly known any parents who did not think their own son was better than other people assessed him. I have never seen a bench from 13 on up where the F word was not among the most common of words. Sometimes it is inappropriate and other times it is the best word available. And, mostly, I have seen people gripe, but unwilling (or unable) to put a team together of their own, to say nothing of a team that can compete at a top level. If the team is good, usually there is a good reason the team got the good players to make it good, and these reasons contradict the often bandied about cry of "Daddy" ball.

And, by the way, while I agree it can go too far (although mostly rarely in my experience) without these "Daddies" who get ripped regularly here by people unable or unwilling to stop up themselves, there would be far less baseball available than there is for a lot of kids who benefit tremendously.

Keep in mind that Jerry Ford of Perfect Game (PGStaff) is a father with some very talented sons, including one who pitched in the big leagues. I am betting that along the way, he coached his sons in addition to establishing a great baseball organization that benefits a lot of sons everywhere. I am also guessing his brand of "Daddy" ball was pretty darn good. There are lots like him.

jemaz

quote:

And, by the way, while I agree it can go too far (although mostly rarely in my experience) without these "Daddies" who get ripped regularly here by people unable or unwilling to stop up themselves, there would be far less baseball available than there is for a lot of kids who benefit tremendously.

Keep in mind that Jerry Ford of Perfect Game (PGStaff) is a father with some very talented sons, including one who pitched in the big leagues. I am betting that along the way, he coached his sons in addition to establishing a great baseball organization that benefits a lot of sons everywhere. I am also guessing his brand of "Daddy" ball was pretty darn good. There are lots like him.

Daddy's are great coaches.

I was protecting my son from myself.LOL
He doesn't need me screwing up thing's??

I would love to coach other kid's just not my own after a certain age.
And I picked 12 yrs. of age to not coach him anymore.
I thought that was the age they start to know everything??
Anyway more than dad.LOL

Plus I'm pretty sure I don't have the knowledge to coach much after that age anyway??
EH

Thanks again for all the input!

I would agree with most that with out the volunteering of parents to step up to the plate and coach there would be no youth sports. Volunteers can be great.

It is easy to complain about the coach. I am sure that the majority of parents think little Tommy is the best and will always be the best.

Having said all this I don't feel at this time my son is the best on the team. I would say he is probably right in the middle. Thats why we do camps and private lessons and work with him ourselves. We do have a few very good all around atheletes on the team. I do think if he continues to work hard he may be better then some of these kids someday. I have pointed out to my son many times that he who thinks there is never room for improvement is kidding themselves. There is always room for improvement with anything you do in life.

But, when you have a team of last year 13U kids and tell them second place tropies don't mean anything you might as well toss them in the garbage. What does that say? For the most part kids give it there best. They don't go out there with the intent to lose the game. So everytime this team looses they getted ripped by being told how bad they all suck and that if they can't handle this they will never be able to handle High School. And everytime they loose they look at is as failure instead of looking at it as what areas we need to improve on as a team to be better.

I appreciate all the feedback. This is my oldest and I'm not sure what to expect come High School. I have expressed off to the side some disastifaction but, don't want to be to over the top as so many parents are today in youth sports, (NOT JUST BASEBALL.) Parents on the team all have their opions and it does very depending on how much playing time tommy gets from week to week or how much tommy was told he sucked.

It's good to get feedback from people who are all over and not directly in the situation because each person has there own opions.

Much Appreciated!!

.
Things to spend time with you player talking about...Probably my favorite all time advice...and much bigger than only baseball...

You hold up your end...Attitude, preparation, effort, competing every ball to the best of your ability...and you can walk away with your head held high every time. Those things you have absolute power and control over, do so.

The rest....Coaches will be what they are, you will win games you play less than perfectly, you will lose games you play flawlessly, people will say and do what they will. These things you may be able to influence but have no control over.

You cannot let the things that you cannot control...affect your ability to control those things that you can.

As I said previously, the coach may have an outlook and perception that challenges me but I have control over my attiutude, my effort, my hard work and preparation, over my focus on every ball. He will not take that from me.

44
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Family 321 -

I was going to advise to switch teams, but...

Listen to rz1 and think about your own actions. Your son's mindset is a reflection of your frustration. Travel teams do not have to play everyone. That is for Little League. Encourage your son - There is such a thing as too many camps. I hate to hear he is discouraged at such a young age, but he can learn and grow from this experience with your help. As many posters have pointed out in the past, although it seems like a "race" that your son is losing - your son and the other players will change and grow significantly depending on their genetics and work ethic over the coming years. How sad it will be for the other players who were promoted on a 14U team over your son, when someone else coaches them in a more objective way, and how lucky for your player if he keeps working.

The most important thing for us back when our kids played youth baseball was the coach's teaching style. We honestly didn't care if he played his son over ours (and several did), but felt strongly about the character he displayed when dealing with kids. If that was seriously in question, we looked elsewhere.