Summer Baseball prior to Starting College

You're son is a RHP, right? First and foremost, he should discuss with his college coaches. They may want him to take the summer off from pitching (but not from working out). If they do want him to pitch, they might have a league in mind. Ripken League is near you, but they probably would have already talked to him about that if they wanted him there. (Not many rising freshmen play Ripken.) You're also close to some the MCBL teams. I've seen a number of D1 rising freshmen pitch in the MCBL, and they've all done pretty well. The league is mostly local D2/D3 and JuCo kids, and they only play about 33 games in the regular season.

There are a a few high level 18 and under teams in the surrounding areas  such as the Ohio warhawks, midland redskins, tri state and the bayside Yankees. Some of the teams play in the connie Mack World Series which is an incredible experince.The Stars and the Maryland Mavs may have teams as well. Keep in mind many of these teams play more than just weekend tournaments. 

The warhawks have dorms for out of state players at no cost. Other have hosts, similar to the high level college summer teams.Most of these teams are filled with out of state players and against high level competition.

Evo canes; Richmond braves, and the other big programs in mD and va don't have teams for college bound freshmen. 

If relocating is not an option mcbl is not a bad option. There is supside playing in the college leagues, but remember,  he will be playing with 21 year olds with several years of college experience. 

Legion ball in most areas, is no longer a great option. 

The number of innings he pitches this spring should be an consideation. Also whether he needs to work or just wants a break.

There is no right decision.

I recommend that he speaks with his college coach about his options and whether or not he plays at all. 

This balancing act is different for each individual.  Ideally, a freshman player enters the fall in good health, in great shape, and ready to compete for his spot.  I think one absolute is the "great shape" aspect.  Your son should contact his school and get information about their fall conditioning program.  He should tailor his own program to somewhat match theirs so that he can flourish in that regard.   

Beyond that, it may depend on lots of factors.  If he is a P, does he need more innings against good competition or will he need a rest, as you mentioned?  Will the college program jump right into inter-squad or will there be time to ramp back up with the arm?  Is he touted as a pretty solid lock as a contributor or will he come into the fall having to impress to make the roster?  Is his arm used to the grind it is about to experience with college ball?  Is his arm generally healthy?  

He shouldn't base his decision on whether he is being approached to play.  He should figure out what he will need to best position himself in the fall.  Many of the better summer programs have grueling schedules.  Most require full time attendance, even for P's.  So, if he is a P and will need rest, you may have to seek out the special situation that will allow for that.

Agree with Mid - start with that call to the college staff. 

Unless you are a pitcher that actually needs time off, you should be playing the summer before heading to college.  That competition can help a lot before fall practice begins.  This is especially true if your HS doesn't play a very competitive schedule.  When that happens, you are going from the summer before your senior year until the fall of your freshman year in college (over a full year) without seeing good competition when it is most necessary.  That first fall at college can be extremely important.

Other than pitching and being overworked, IMO the summer is baseball season.  Baseball players play baseball in the summer unless they are injured.  Good competition is the best way to get better.  Training is important in the offseason, but nothing can replace the actual games (competition) 

Add to the above...

If I am a college coach, especially Mid Major on down, and I have an excellent player/pitcher, I might want to recommend not playing that final summer at a high level.  We have seen many cases where good players have decommitted and ended up at other colleges.  And in the case where the player wasn't drafted out of HS, we have seen some big offers made by MLB clubs.  That summer between HS and college, undrafted players are free agents.  Matt Wieters went from undrafted to being a prized jewel during that time.  He still went to Georgia Tech and became a first rounder later.

Always keep in mind that everyone, be it college coach or advisor/agent has a personal agenda.  They want to protect what they have.  We know of advisors, usually not the big guys, who have told their players to avoid certain big scouting events like Jupiter WWBA.  At the same time we know how important that event can be for that player.  After all, every MLB club sends an average of 16 scouts, including their scouting director and even their GM in some cases.  

So why would anyone tell his player to skip that event?   Because along with all those scouts, all the big agents are also there.  And the easiest thing for an amateur player to do is to switch advisors/agents.  Why put your player out there for all the competition to see?  

There are agents who would much rather get their percentage of you being a 10th round pick, rather than lose you to another agent and you become a first round pick.  Easy to check the difference in money between a 10th round pick and a 1st round pick.  But if they lose you to another advisor/agent they get nothing for you being a first rounder.  

Guess I even understand why this happens.  It's all about business I suppose.  But unsuspecting players and parents trust what the advisor tells them.  They believe that their advisor/agent has their sons best interest above everything else.  Guess they never consider that in some cases the most important consideration isn't really their son.

Need to add this... There are many excellent and honest advisors and agents.  Some do care much more than others.  Some can afford to be more honest than others.  Some can be very important to a players future. And there can be very good legitimate reasons why an advisor would tell his player to miss a certain event.  

Bottom line...  Nobody cares more about your son than you do.  Always remember that!  Listen to advice and always consider it, but do what is in the best interest of your son!

PGStaff posted:

 

Bottom line...  Nobody cares more about your son than you do.  Always remember that!  Listen to advice and always consider it, but do what is in the best interest of your son!

Good advice as usual from PG Staff.

I would echo what others have said - get input from the coaching staff at the college, especially if they are able to provide an advance look at strength/conditioning activities for the fall and expectations for innings/use in the fall.  If your son throws a ton of innings in the spring, and the expectation is high volume off the mound in the fall, you might want to back off over the summer or stick with flat-ground long toss.

We are wrestling with the same challenge.  We pay in a very competitive HS program in NorCal and my son will be a starter this year.  So trying to sort out what summer should look like.  My gut tells me as a LHP -- it would be smart to play in a pretty competitive program where he will face college level players from JC to D1 level and start to get a sense of what the next level is all about.  Better to fail in the summer and make adjustments rather than to start figure it out at in fall practice.  Son is headed to a good  D3 in the MidWest.  

Not as familiar with the programs at this level or the leagues.  Don't want him to travel or play outside of the SF Bay Area (I figure that will happen soon enough) during the summer.  Found one league -- Golden State College Baseball League (GSCBL) that has teams from NorCal, Oregon and Nevada.  Players spent gambit of levels and ages.  Team that offered him a spot wasn't very good last year -- which frankly doesn't matter to me as I want him to get innings, not worry about being on a winning team.  Season is 40-ish games... starts June 2 and ends July 26th.

As I recall my son had a spring innings limit that his future college pitching coach was looking at.  I want to say around 65 innings.  Once he hit that we knew he was going to just train the summer between.  He ended up around 75 innings before we got bumped.  

Nothing can really prepare one for the rigors of college baseball from a physical standpoint but I am certain my son benefitted more from the workouts on campus for three months than he would have gotten pitching 15-20 more innings against so so local competition.

the only thing I would add is - despite the fact what PG is saying is probably spot on correct your chances of any of that happening are about .005% or less. This is not knock on your son but I would be willing to wager a fair amount that no pitcher signed to a Patriot league school has ever blossomed over the summer between HS and freshman year to point where they get a free agent deal from MLB team...skip school and go pro. I am not an expert and could wrong but that is a bet I would be thrilled to take action on.

As the father of son in the same category but a non pitcher - I think the advice to get in great shape is crucial. I am thinking of scaling down the summer events to 30 or so games. My thought if you add in the 20 or 25 HS games that gives a 50 plus game schedule complete by end of July. That will leave the entire month of August to charge battery, move into school and get ready to go again.

His college coach has already mentioned putting him in a men's league that has many college and ex college guys...a coach of one of the schools that recruited him (not the one he is going to) is asking him to come play in the summer for him in a similar league. I think you will find plenty of options.

Sorry if I made it sound like it is common.  However, we have many stories where players either blossomed late or simply weren't scouted until their HS career was over.  Sometimes it is because the player signed with the instate college and no one else knew about him.  Sometimes he just got that much better his last year.

Here is an interesting and surprising story from the past. Not exactly the same situation because this player was ready to give up baseball.

https://www.baseballamerica.co...t/040526lambert.html

College, especially the larger programs is very intimidating for just about everyone.   By the first or second month your player starts in fall he will be exhausted. 18 credits, 6:30 am workouts, one on one instruction, long practices, 10 hours a week mandatory study hall at D1 programs. Its quite an adjustment.  Your sons coach will tell him what he wants to do.  

Just keep in mind when you are playing during that summer, many other freshman are getting in credits to lighten the academic load and getting in top peak physical shape before you even show up, as well as forming important bonds.

JMO

My son is a 2017 also.  I asked his HC the same question.   His advice was to take a family vacation this summer as it's the last time he'll have a chance to do so until his career is over.   He did emphasize showing up in shape and ready to compete     Seemed like sage advice to me     To be fair son won't have much time to play summer ball anyway   He graduates 16 June and they want him on campus first week of July   

My son was a 2016 RHP who is now in the Centennial conference.  There was no guidance from the coach as far as I know about where to play this past summer but we were definitely not looking for a "travel" team after the grind he had gone through the previous two summers.  We wanted him to stay sharp pitching while not throwing too many innings, to work out so he showed up in shape and to work so he'd have some of his own money on campus.  

That last one is something it seems like we overlook a lot here on this board - students go through a lot of money - pizza, wings, BBQ, Walmart, bookstore, I could go on and on with the charges I see on his debit card.  Since his schedule had always been dominated by sports, practices, workouts, tournaments, etc he had rarely had time to work and put away his own money so we thought last summer was the time to start.  

Baseball wise he found a local college wood bat league that also had one adult team (NYPD team) that played 36 games and playoffs in about 5-6 weeks.  The talent was mixed - lots of D3 players, a few D1 players and several who had just graduated.  His team had lots of just graduated HS players who were going on to play at D3 schools and they got spanked most of the first third of the season but came back to make the playoffs.  He went to every game the first 2 weeks, was used in relief several times while the coach got to know him and then earned a start once a week for the rest of the season and just had to go to that game - so much less of a grind schedule wise.  

I know the expectations for D1 vs D3 players over the summer are different but the summer between graduating and going to College seems to be a grey area.  Both RHPs who played with my 2016 in HS who committed D1 (in 2015 and 2016) played in the same league I mentioned above before they moved on to college.  

PGStaff posted:

Unless you are a pitcher that actually needs time off, you should be playing the summer before heading to college.  That competition can help a lot before fall practice begins.  This is especially true if your HS doesn't play a very competitive schedule.  When that happens, you are going from the summer before your senior year until the fall of your freshman year in college (over a full year) without seeing good competition when it is most necessary.  That first fall at college can be extremely important.

Other than pitching and being overworked, IMO the summer is baseball season.  Baseball players play baseball in the summer unless they are injured.  Good competition is the best way to get better.  Training is important in the offseason, but nothing can replace the actual games (competition) 

Totally agree.  There are only so many summers in a young man's career and to take one off for any other reason than injury?  Think about it this way.  Most D1 college players are playing college summer league baseball and they will be your competition for playing time this fall.  If your competition is not taking the summer off, I don't think an incoming freshman should be taking the summer off. 

In addition to playing, many coaches use running drills to find out who is in shape and how tough guys are.  Prepare to be in shape like you are in the middle of a marine bootcamp.  Show up in better shape than most other players and you will turn the coach's head from the very first time they lay eyes on you.

Great responses and feedback all. Thank you. Son and I read all of this last night. Will have him read the new ones that came today. 

Basically I see the following recommendations:

1. make your own informed decision based on several factors (innings pitched in Spring, health, etc)

2. be prepared to work out and get in best shape before College Fall season (body and mind)

3. Ask entering College Coach for recommendations

4. If possible, play some competitive baseball to get an idea of college level competition

5. prepare for academic rigor by planning to manage the course load with the baseball

6. take a family vacation

7. Work and make some money 

All very sound advice and a great blueprint for son (and hopefully other players)

I underestimated the intensity of the conditioning requirements when I started (late 90's). 

Enrolling in the summer seems to be the trend (especially in the power conferences). Not sure how prevalent it is outside of the major conferences. 

Depending upon his experience playing against high-level competition, playing in a college league or on a Connie Mack team, isn't a bad idea. 

Again, it is all based on his individual circumstances. 

Phanatic2008WS posted:

Great responses and feedback all. Thank you. Son and I read all of this last night. Will have him read the new ones that came today. 

Basically I see the following recommendations:

1. make your own informed decision based on several factors (innings pitched in Spring, health, etc)

2. be prepared to work out and get in best shape before College Fall season (body and mind)

3. Ask entering College Coach for recommendations

4. If possible, play some competitive baseball to get an idea of college level competition

5. prepare for academic rigor by planning to manage the course load with the baseball

6. take a family vacation

7. Work and make some money 

All very sound advice and a great blueprint for son (and hopefully other players)

 

Great take-aways.  Good luck fitting that all in 

I will expand on #4.  PGStaff and Clevelandad are a few of the most experienced and educated on this forum.  They emphasize the importance of playing against college level competition.  Assuming your son is healthy, this probably needs more consideration than "if possible, play some.."  I assume, since he was recruited to play D1 ball, he has been playing a lot of high level travel where he is already facing many other D1 level players.   Does he already have a level of confidence to compete in this arena or does he need more innings against really good hitters?  Just more to chew on.

Not really sure why I am posting, because I firmly believe in people deciding for themselves what is best.  Maybe it's because it just interests me to see how people think.  Anyway....

There could be many reasons a pitcher would take that final summer off. Especially if he was over worked in the spring or suffering from a minor injury. The goal should be to be as close to 100% as possible.

There are players that attend classes in that summer in order to get a head start.

Of course a lot depends on the level of college ball, but if it is a high competitive level and you are a position player, I think it is a mistake to take that summer off. Especially if your HS schedule isn't very competitive.

Not many can hit higher velocity and good breaking balls until they see it numerous times. You can hit .500 against poor HS competition and hit .000 during your first fall at college. You don't always have to spend a pile of money traveling all over. Most areas have a town league or adult league that is competitive.

You can train and get in the best shape of anyone on the team. You can get stronger and be the strongest player at the college. You can do all that and even more and still be the worst hitter on the team. You don't get better at ANYTHING by not doing it! That is especially true when it comes to hitting. BP is good, it prepares hitters for games. But without games you just become a good BP hitter.

My suggestion is to find the best possible competition that fits your situation. For some that will be the highest level of Travel Ball. For others it might be a competitive team that plays in a few tournaments. For others it might be a local legion or town league. Just don't take it for granted that you are ever good enough! Don't use the excuse you are going to train. Many play and train at the same time. Of course if you have an injury that's another story. In that case, do what is needed to get back to 100%.

Guess I must be too old... I can't imagine a basketball player taking the winter off. Or a football player taking the fall off. Why would a baseball player want to take the summer off unless he had to. Sure some HS teams play a few games in the spring. Some play baseball in the fall under less stress in some cases. But summer is all about baseball everywhere they play the game. Just seems like that is what most players want to do. I think those that don't play in the summer aren't playing enough.

Sooner or later someone has to ask this question. Why are there so many Dominicans in the Major Leagues? A country smaller than most USA states in area and population produces nearly 25% of the Major League rosters. They don't excel at any other sport, just baseball. So it's not because they are somehow more athletic. No doubt, poverty and desire for a better life is motivation. So what is it that they do differently there to produce so many Major League players. What do younger players do differently in Cuba and other Latin American countries? Why does California produce so many more MLB players than other areas? How about Florida? Seems to me that it is because the kids there play a lot more. But maybe there's another explanation I'm not aware of.

I do understand that the summer before heading off to college is different. But so is the summer between freshman and sophomore years in college. And even with tremendous growth there are not enough summer leagues for all the players that want to play.

Please understand my comments pertain mostly to position players. With pitchers there are many other things to consider. Also these are simply my opinions and should never be confused with fact.

Very good analyses, PGStaff. I appre ciate, and I reckon many others do as well. 

If healthy, and if the arm is not stressed out, I think even for pitchers it should be a good test to pitch at a level which will be definitely higher that majority HS teams. In my sons case, he will be a Senior on a loaded HS team (10 Division 1 commits out of 25 on the varsity roster), that plays a strong conference. But even in that conference, all the players will be HS age/skill level. Getting an opportunity to pitch or hit against college level (D1, D2, D3, JUCO regardless), would in all accounts benefit the player entering Fall. At the very least, he would have played versus guys that have been there and done that at whatever level. Playing against guys 2-4 years older, regardless of skill/division is something that might be better off getting done before everything starts for real in Fall of Freshman year in college. So point well take on the last two posts....if healthy try and play in a league that has teams with college level players and test the waters out, work on a few things, see how your stuff measures to what is expected. It approached as a short season to just get to know the next level, I see how that could be very beneficial in the long run. I love this quote I saw someplace -

I am in competition with no one.

I have no desire to play the game of being better than anyone.

I am simply trying to be better than the person I was yesterday.

I am glad PG took the time to put his feelings down in writing.   If you love the game, you love to play.  The more you play, the better you get.

ClevelandDad posted:

I am glad PG took the time to put his feelings down in writing.   If you love the game, you love to play.  The more you play, the better you get.

I think I will respectfully disagree with the last sentence.  To an extent I believe that statement is true, but current performance science shows that baseball is physically a very unbalanced sport.  Whether hitting or pitching your dominant side makes physical changes that if not dealt with through training and some downtime ultimately will lead to physical breakdowns.  

My son loves to play the game.  I love watching him play as well.  But there is no doubt in my mind that the last two years we he has been deliberate in his downtime and training is where he has seen the most growth on the baseball field.  

To each his own I guess.

Nobody disagrees with downtime.  It doesn't seem to make sense to take your downtime in basketball in the fall/winter, your downtime in football in the fall, nor your downtime for baseball in the summer.

This thread is about making the leap from high school ball to college - an enormous leap which most recruited players fail and only an elite/lucky few will succeed.  In 7th-12th grade, you may be making what appears to be "gains" off the field but at the college level, everything is about what you do on the field.  Each kid in college was a high school all-star.  You need to see as many curve balls as possible in order to compete with that.  No amount of lifting or running can compensate for that.  It may appear that way before you get to college but it does not hold true after you get in college. 

Ask yourself, why do all the college coaches fight to get their players into elite wood-bat leagues in the summer time even after their kids have been playing since January?  If downtime were the best medicine, the college coaches would be recommending rest in the summer.  As the verse in Ecclesiastes goes "There is a time and a season for everything."  

MKbaseballdad posted:

My son was a 2016 RHP who is now in the Centennial conference.  There was no guidance from the coach as far as I know about where to play this past summer but we were definitely not looking for a "travel" team after the grind he had gone through the previous two summers.  We wanted him to stay sharp pitching while not throwing too many innings, to work out so he showed up in shape and to work so he'd have some of his own money on campus.  

That last one is something it seems like we overlook a lot here on this board - students go through a lot of money - pizza, wings, BBQ, Walmart, bookstore, I could go on and on with the charges I see on his debit card.  Since his schedule had always been dominated by sports, practices, workouts, tournaments, etc he had rarely had time to work and put away his own money so we thought last summer was the time to start.  

Baseball wise he found a local college wood bat league that also had one adult team (NYPD team) that played 36 games and playoffs in about 5-6 weeks.  The talent was mixed - lots of D3 players, a few D1 players and several who had just graduated.  His team had lots of just graduated HS players who were going on to play at D3 schools and they got spanked most of the first third of the season but came back to make the playoffs.  He went to every game the first 2 weeks, was used in relief several times while the coach got to know him and then earned a start once a week for the rest of the season and just had to go to that game - so much less of a grind schedule wise.  

I know the expectations for D1 vs D3 players over the summer are different but the summer between graduating and going to College seems to be a grey area.  Both RHPs who played with my 2016 in HS who committed D1 (in 2015 and 2016) played in the same league I mentioned above before they moved on to college.  

With there being no NLI, in D3. I do not believe many D3 coaches will work to find you a place to play. It is in there best interest to not have you seen by other schools. At my sons school, they have lost more than one commit in that summer before freshman year. A coach from a D2 or NAIA, or heck in one case a D1 saw a player and was able to offer a scholarship. Admittedly in most of the cases I have been aware of the player eventually regretted changing schools. In most cases they struggled to get playing time at the new school.

My son played the last year with his summer team and they played really good competition, and he was able to be a position player for one more summer.

I've advocated before for pitchers have scheduled downtime, and mentioned that earlier in the thread assuming the player in question was a RHP.  But I have to agree with the sentiment of PGStaff and others - as a position player, find somewhere to play over the summer.

Yes, you can still commit to strength and conditioning.  As a position player it's okay to show up to a game over the summer sore from squats the day before.  It's not either/or.  Position players can and should be doing both in "non-priority" seasons.  By "non-priority", I mean it's not your freshman fall where you are competing for a spot on a college roster for the first time; it's not your final high school season where you are competing for a state title.  You are getting your game reps in to get yourself ready for the fall.  Play ball AND workout/train.

Point well taken all!

Clearly hitting reps versus advanced pitching will help. In a vacuum, pitchers throwing to advanced hitters, should also help the pitchers. But as has been alluded to, the issue at stake is the health of the pitchers. This is wheer downtime seems to make a lot of sense. Basically, it might really depend as has been said, on how the Spring season workload goes, and if there is enough reason to extend the pitching into summer (cheifly I may add to get reps pitching to advanced hitters), knowing that in the Fall the health of the pitcher needs to be in prime condition to compete for a college roster spot. A tough call - in my honest opinion. If all works out and everyone stays healthy, a good summer season would put the freshman ahead of the curve by Fall. On the flipside, if that becomes too much baseball from Spring extending into Summer, will the Fall ball be affected negatively. Lots to ponder and decide, as mentioned on a case by case basis, especially for pitchers.

Phantic--  totally agree.  My son's HS team is also loaded -- 7 are d1 commits and three are set to go to good d3. We were ranked and face really strong competition both in league and in tournaments such as the Boras Classic. But there is something to be gained by facing off against third year college batters vs  high school players.  To be to be sure we will shut it down and be careful  about total innings pitched -- but that experience will be huge  

MAM posted:

Phantic--  totally agree.  My son's HS team is also loaded -- 7 are d1 commits and three are set to go to good d3. We were ranked and face really strong competition both in league and in tournaments such as the Boras Classic. But there is something to be gained by facing off against third year college batters vs  high school players.  To be to be sure we will shut it down and be careful  about total innings pitched -- but that experience will be huge  

 

 

 

Sorry, guys.. I keep amusing myself by arguing both sides.  This, too, is a great plan.  Problem is most decent summer college programs are looking for P's who can commit to contributing a reasonable # of innings and have some degree of flexibility with when they throw.  After all, the summer college program has a reputation to uphold and a responsibility to roll out a competitive team each night as well.  

There is more leverage for the player when the college coach utilizes his relationship with the summer college coach and sends a guy with an innings limit (which is what typically happens for the player after freshman college year).  It is more difficult for the incoming freshman player who is pursuing summer college programs on his own and doesn't have that college coach support to warrant dictating limited innings and shut-down dates.  So, it's much easier in theory than in practice.  Of course, results may vary depending on "studness" of the P.  

Now that we've got that all cleared up, good luck Phanatic 

Phanatic2008WS posted:

Just posting to get advice on summer baseball between HS and start of College Ball. My son has committed to a Patriot League school and will start 2017. The Spring HS baseball season will be very busy, so he is also considering taking the summer off from baseball prior to starting college. At the same time, he has been approached by couple area teams that have college level/college bound players. Appreciate if folks can chime in with thoughts and ideas about summer baseball between HS and College? Are there leagues/teams in the Northeast/Mid Atlantic that would be good to look at in terms of getting ready for D1 baseball? As always thanks for any feedback.

The summer before college I was happy to let him go to a fun place to play baseball, figuring his freshman year was going to be a time for development and adjustment to the college athlete lifestyle.  So, of to Hawaii in the Hawaiian Collegiate League.  AND, since we had family there, both my son and family there got a chance to see each other more.  It wasn't as competitive as some of the other collegiate leagues, but he did enjoy the time, which turned out to be rather relaxing.  I don't really know if that aspect of his summer baseball helped, but it turned out he did great in fall ball and ended up as a true freshman starter in the PAC10.