Summer has started....

Don't be a travel snob. It's unbecoming. Other high school baseball parents can sense a travel snob a mile away. Of course it's better ball. Everyone is a college prospect.

For those who hope to have their son's move on a play in college, it is important to remember that college baseball has a lot of similarities to HS baseball. Depending on the quality of the HS baseball, which can be awfully good in regions of Northern CA., the experience can provide a valuable base.

No matter how we look at it, playing in college can be an intense 9 month effort where players learn to compete with each other and also to be fully accountable to each other, or at least to their team.  While someone might play at a level their parent feels is at a higher quality for 7-8 weeks of travel, the experience might not translate 1:1 for the breadth of challenges the parents aspire for their sons at the next level.

Wow, I think you need to reread this and realize what an ### you sound like.  I know you're not from past experience, but that was pretty hard to read.  Maybe I'll turn the page on you, baseball must not be that good in your area compared to mine.  Not much of a dropoff here between Travel and the largest class of high school baseball.  Only difference is pitching is deeper and lineup are strong 1-9 in travel compared to about 1-7 in high school.

 

I enjoyed both travel and high school with my son.  They had different aspects that I really enjoyed, and honestly both had some that I did not enjoy.  Maybe we were lucky in that my son had a good coach, good team and a good conference.

 

And what do trophies have to do with high school ball?  The only trophies I ever saw went to the school.

On our local HS team we have 2 kids who want to play at the next level, on the travel team we have all 12 trying to get better so they can keep playing......so yes I also am glad to see some good baseball.

Pretty harsh replies here. He's just stating what's happening personally w him. Not everyone plays in a strong region like CA. In HS you play w whoever comes out and is on team. There r usu varying degrees of commitment. Some really want to play at next level and  do extra work year round, and others r on team for social aspect. They r having fun, but have no desire to play at next level, and that's ok. 

Usu on good travel Summer teams players are Chosen for skill, and they want to play at next level. In my exp the pitching is better, and skill level is better. In HS we have a few good teams around here but usu just ok teams w one or two studs who standout. U may have 3-4 decent pitchers, usu 1-2 aces, but on a Summer team you can see P 7-8 deep who can get job done. 

We love our HS team, great kids, but we too r looking forward to Summer Ball where we play w players of higher skill level, and  better overall teams. That's just my opinion from where we play.  It's just a diff experience, esp w traveling, staying at hotels, etc-the kids get really close.

Sounds like my son's HS team (admittedly JV). He just played in his first DH on his 15u/JV travel team and the quality of everything was better than HS ball. Except my son loves playing for HIS high school team, wearing the colors, and all the other extras that come with it.

I've seen some truly horrible travel teams made up of kids that would get cut from average HS teams.  Therefore I'm glad HS baseball is better than travel......wait a minute.  Couldn't it be possibly true that some areas have great HS baseball while others don't?  Also, could it be possible that some areas have horrible travel teams while others don't?  That's kind of a crazy idea that you can't just lump all HS teams in one category while you can't lump all travel teams in one category.  Once again don't bash one just because in your area it's not very good.  I'm just amazed some people still can't get this through their head you can appreciate one over the other without bashing it.  Both serve very viable functions in becoming a better ball player.

Enjoyment of baseball in our situation was never equated or measured by who wanted to play at the next level. In HS, our son played with 2 kids who didn't have a chance to play in college. In fact, one had residual impairment in one arm and one leg which impaired his ability to run, swing or throw.  Those 2 kids, however, made a difference which few, if any could, to the enjoyment of playing baseball and competing.

In college, our son played at a D3 where maybe 5 aspired to and had the ability to play at the next level. In the NECBL where our son playing during the Summer, the starters were from the SEC, ACC, Pac12, Big 12, etc. Everyone aspired to be drafted and play at the next level and more than 1/2 were.

The quality of play was quite different and so was our son's role different at the D3 vs the NECBL.  I sure don't think our enjoyment of how he and his team performed was any different, though.

I can understand the quality of play is something to appreciate but I don't find it all that rewarding to find my enjoyment in watching baseball to be measured by who aspires to play at the next level.  At the HS level especially, I love to watch a kid who hustles, competes and works his tail off because he truly loves the game and his teammates, and could care less about the next level.

 

 

Guys.....sorry for coming off sounding so hard on HS baseball....that's not what I meant....and as some of you have said, it's hard to compare your HS experience with that of others.  Based on my previous posts here...I hope you guys can see that it was based on my experiences....not HS baseball in general.  We live in a small town....and play a lot of schools that are even smaller than us.  Football and basketball dominate here and it's tough to get the top kids to play baseball in a lot of the area schools.  Obviously my thoughts weren't based on me watching top level HS programs like some of you are involved with.  I love watching a good baseball game...at any level, but small town HS baseball just doesn't always equate to what I would call a "good game".....

 

Let me start by saying this.....our HS team was very good....one of the best year's we've had.  Our top 5 or 6 guys..could play college if they wanted to.  Our league is also very good, considered one of the top in the state....and we won it outright for the first time in school history.  We played some really good teams...and some really bad teams...which is probably where the reasoning for my initial post came from.  Heck, we had 14 1-run games out of those 27 games...can't beat it for excitement.

 

My son broke or tied 3 school records as a junior.  Needless to say, I really, really enjoyed watching him and his teammates (some have been together for 10 years) play this year.

 

That being said, I hope you can re-read my post and take it for what it is...and not take it as a bash at HS ball....which it certainly wasn't.  Watching this weekend, the baseball was just so much different...we had games where 7 or 8 D1 commits were on the field at the same time....we didn't see 7 or 8 D1 commits all year during our HS season.  It's just a "different" type of baseball....more like watching a college game than a HS game.

 

Hope this clears up my original post....

I've been out biking and stopped to watch LL games. It's not always about the level of talent in the game. It's about the level of enthusiasm. I actually got more up for high school games than travel games. Regardless of how the travel team played the slate was wiped clean for the next weekend. Some of the high school games involved having to win to stay in first or continue chasing first. There's something special about a season long pursuit of first place. There's too much fun along the way in a kid's baseball journey to discount the enjoyment of any level along the path.

My home town had 5 HS funnel into one Legion team so summer was way better.  My son plays on the highest rated team for a big organization so his team is better player by player, but his HS ball was good all 18 play travel ball just on different level teams.  I was a travel ball snob until the last couple of years when I lived and died with each HS win or loss.  My son loves matching up against the best so he likes that part of summer ball, however with great players come great egos.  In HS everyone learns his role and the team aspect is irreplaceable.

Yeah, and I know we're getting off track here but...

When Cabbage played SoCal scout league a few years ago, it had some of the best HS talent in the country, as became evident in the subsequent draft and college seasons.   I anticipated that it would be really exciting to watch.  Turned out to be the absolute worst from a game fan standpoint.  Yes, the talent was impressive and cool to see but zero emphasis on the score or team vs. team competition.  An occasional golf clap was the most riled the fans would get.

One thing that strikes me from reading some  of these threads in my short time as a member of this community is that the HS baseball situation various enormously from region to region. Here in No Cal there is no doubt that HS baseball is played at a very high level.   Almost all the players on all teams in our region are year round baseball players.  Every year our school has way more freshman try out than will make the team.   This past year I believe the coaches cut 50 freshman.  I know schools around here that cut upwards of 70 or more.  And many of the kids that get cut are really good players.  Even some non-performing upper class men get cut from time to time -- though more rarely -- when it comes time for JV players to make the jump to varsity.   By the way, the only kids in our system who aren't all year round baseball players are mostly multi-sport athletes.  I'd put that number at about 20%.   Some of that 20% won't play much baseball  this summer -- football conditioning starts in mid July I think.   But as for the rest, it's travel ball all summer and fall. Long and short is that there  isn't really a drop off from HS ball to the summer season -- just a remixing.   The guys on our HS Varsity  will scatter to 3 or 4 different travel teams -- all of them having some pretensions to being "elite"  -- but of course some are stronger than others.  And though all compete mostly locally in the fall and summer, I can't think of a single one that doesn't enter at least one or two very high profile events during the travel season.

 

Doesn't seem to be the same all over the country.   

I really miss HS ball, the games meant something - all of the kids were up for them, the fans, the food, the music, school colors, banners, local announcers, even the parents.  League or cross town rivals - really there was nothing more fun  than one of those big games. I miss it just writing this. 

 

Travel ball for the most part was Meh. Don't get me wrong it was fun being around them, but most were "tournaments" that did not mean anything. The only ones that were memorable were the USA 16U Nationals and the Connie Mac tournament that actually meant you were moving on to something special.

 

I'd take a HS game over a travel game any day of the week. 

I am a big supporter of HS baseball.  I feel sorry for those that don't enjoy it. I don't understand why anyone tries to compare HS and Travel. In most cases there is no competition. Sometimes they work together. They play at different times.  They both provide something important.

 

Think I can safely say we see the vast majority of the top level of Travel Baseball.  At that level the talent is astounding. There have been teams that are the best from their region go 0-6 in their pool at these tournaments. We have had teams that won the Connie Mack World Series not get out of their pool. There is a very big difference from the top level to the next level.  

 

The only thing "Buckeye" mentioned that surprised me is the "Not very many strikeouts"

 

When we see the top pitchers, even against the top hitters, there are a very large number of strikeouts. The top pitchers might not dominate like they do in HS, but they still dominate.

I also feel sorry for those that haven't experienced the Travel Ball that is highly competitive.  Where teams want to win and dogpile if they do.  Where winning a tournament is a very big deal for the individual, the team and the organization.

 

We have had games where the police have been called to escort umpires off the field.  Where fans have been told to leave.  Where brawls have taken place. Where people are screaming as loud as they can.  Where many protests take place. Not that these are all good things, but it sure sounds different than what some have experienced. The score is extremely important, winning is extremely important.

Summer has started...

Alabama/FL/ FL State/GA Tech/ SC: "Yeah, for us too."

Brutal! But true...

Wow - So much different here.  Our HS conf is loaded with D1 guys and probably 5-6 who will be drafted this week.  95% of the seniors will play somewhere next year.  Several guys who couldn't make the HS team play competitive summer travel ball.  Summer is a time to take a breather.  RHP son will  dominate (and has so far) on the mound in the summer while posting seemingly average stats in HS.

.....are there houses for sale in your neighborhood??  

Yes there are but if I told you where we are, I would risk my anonymity and therefore my ability to post stupid things and exaggerate about my son. 

Whether it is Texas, Calfornia, Florida, Georgia or elsewhere, we see the majority of the highest level teams with the majority of the most talented kids.  There aren't any average high school players on these type teams.  In fact, some of these teams recruit similar to a big college program.  If you check out the first few rounds of each draft, you will see the majority of those kids play for one of these top Travel Teams.  Where you see these teams you will find many scouts and college recruiters.  

 

It's true that some parts of the country have a much higher level of HS competition. (More talent). But the very best players can come from anywhere. 

Which makes me wonder,  PGStaff, whether, for better or for worse,  HS baseball will eventually head the way of HS Soccer.   In our area, the very best HS age soccer players basically skip varsity soccer and play with their elite club teams.  Of the soccers players from my son's school last year who went on to play in college, not a single one played for our HS.  I don't really follow soccer recruiting or soccer for that matter, but I am told this is the rule, not the exception around the country.

 

 Do you think it might come to that in HS baseball?  I can see what would make it happen.  Hard to see what would prevent  it from happening.

I know it's hard and I have a hard time getting my mind wrapped around it but people need to think nation wide.  Just because in your area it's one way doesn't mean it's like that all over.  In this case HS being terrible (not referring to what Buckeye posted - just saying this in general) or HS coaches not as good as travel.  

 

What we need to concentrate on is how serious does the team take baseball (HS and travel).  Those who take it serious and play against those who take it serious make for the best games.  PG has stated that he's seen travel tournaments where the atmosphere is intense and they dogpile after a win.  That's an example of teams who take it serious and it makes for great baseball.  I've been in HS games with the exact same atmosphere and it's because two teams take it serious.  

 

Terrible / not serious baseball means no crowds or dead crowds.  Serious baseball will lead to big / enthusiastic crowds.  People want to see good baseball and when it's not then it's hard to get into.  I remember a couple years ago when we played for the state championship.  The crowd was so loud our 1B couldn't hear us and we were in the 1B dugout only 10 yards away.  When I was in Kentucky we made it to the regional championship game and I guarantee if someone broke into every store back in town they wouldn't have been caught because everyone was at that game.  That is something to cherish as a player, coach and fan.  And while my examples were HS that's the same thing we're all striving for in travel as well.  Both serve a good purpose in the development of these guys.  Sometimes they coincide and sometimes they are mutually exclusive but they are both what you make of it.  You care then it matters.  The teams care then it becomes great baseball.

 There are many that don't get to experience anything like what you just described, like I have said before kid's are lucky when they go to a HS with a program like yours and everyone else has to look forward to summer ball.

This response isn't directed at you personally but more as a in general statement

 

I wish everyone would get a HS experience the way it should be but that doesn't mean just because it's bad for one person / team does it mean they should bring down all of HS baseball like some do.  There are tons of stories out there where travel ball is done wrong because the coach was there to make money instead of do their job.  It doesn't matter what type of baseball you do - there are those who stink at it.  It's horrible for the guys who get screwed over but it's part of life.  Doesn't mean that entire industry is bad.

I'll take HS ball over traveL any day. HS ball despite the level of talent and coaching play for name on the front of their shirts while travel is for playing for the name in the back of the shirts.

As I understand it the US Soccer Association funds these elite teams at no cost to the players for these top teams.  My guess is that is an a attempt to grow the sport.  One of my coworkers sons played on one of these teams.  They require that you NOT play for your HS team.  Seems strange to me but I guess they want to limit injuries and maximize training time. 

 

I don't see that happening to HS baseball.  HS baseball is alive and well around here.  My son plays on a close knit travel team.  Guys are all great friends and have had some solid success nationally.  I don't think one of them would give up the four months they get to represent their school.  They always keep in touch but each of them takes great pride in putting on their school colors.

Our experience was just a little different.  While my oldest son is just an all out competitor, and wouldn't change up playing for his high school for anything...his summer experience with a top program opened his eyes and really lit the fire.  According to him, there is absolutely no comparison.  He went from being the Ace on hi HS team, to the number 4/5 guy on his summer team.  He made great friends with what I am thinking will be a top 10 pick kid out of the Miami area.  HS baseball is pretty good in our area, but there are only a couple of programs that dominate consistently, but there are a lot of cross town rivalry's and kids play hard and play to win.  Both have their place and I will continue to support both.

I agree. Both have their place and each serves their purpose. I just prefer watching HS ball over the travel because of the dynamics of HS ball geared towards team goals the division matchups, conference and state tournaments that ou don't get. With travel