Swing Eval

Looks to be a very aggressive hitter for 11 years old ..has a lot going for him already . I would try not having his hands and the bat so far away from his body as he seems to be locking up his elbows too soon . Also maybe try to flatten out his bat a bit closer to his shoulder with the elbows bent . You might find he can generate more and his bat will come thru the hitting zone in better fashion.

It appears to me that he is pulling his bat through with his biceps and wrists. He isn't getting extension through the ball and he has very little separation between upper and lower body, it looks more like a spin to me. IMO, his stride needs to be longer. His feet should be apart about the length of his bat when his front foot lands to give him proper leverage.

Question...is he a pull hitter now?

Yes, He hits mostly to the left side and up the middle.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
He isn't getting extension through the ball

Did you go through the clip frame by frame?

He clearly is extending just fine after the point of contact (and you want extension to happen after the point of contact, not at the point of contact).

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
He isn't getting extension through the ball

Did you go through the clip frame by frame?

He clearly is extending just fine after the point of contact (and you want extension to happen after the point of contact, not at the point of contact).

Yes, I went frame by frame and I don't see extention "through the ball", which means, IN THE DIRECTION OF THE HIT. He is pulling his bat through with his right bicep. On some swings, his right elbow doesn't leave his side until he's in his follow through.

quote:

Originally posted by DenJake:
Yes, He hits mostly to the left side and up the middle.

I thought so. I think he may be developing some bad habits that need to be fixed asap. The reason I say that, is that with the batspeed he has and his aggressive nature, he probably has good power at the moment and Coaches will be hesitant to change his swing. It will be very difficult for him to hit outside pitches with this swing and as he moves up, the Pitchers and opposing Coaches will figure it out pretty quick.

I would try to find a good instructor in your area.

kbat2012 made a good point about his head too. Once he starts seeing breaking balls, he will struggle if he doesn't keep his head up straight. You lose visual perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
He needs to find a pattern to synch the upper and lower body....

He needs to figure out how to sequence....

Blue,

I agree. Do you know anyone that teaches that in his area? If not, it may be time for you to put out a DVD. Any chance of that???

Not a bad swing, for an 11 year old. His lower end is working, just not always working with his upper end. Front foot appears to be opening up a little early, thus the balance loss on finish. If he can manage to keep his weight on the inside of his front foot better, he will utilize his weight transfer better. This will allow him to keep his front hip and shoulder working through pitch location.

Contact point is critical, to being able to drive the ball the other way, he needs to let the ball get deeper. This video the soft toss is from out front, move beside the hitter and bring the contact point to behind his front knee, for the outside pitch, after load/stretch,,,, this should help him learn to let the ball travel.

quote:

Contact point is critical, to being able to drive the ball the other way, he needs to let the ball get deeper. This video the soft toss is from out front, move beside the hitter and bring the contact point to behind his front knee, for the outside pitch, after load/stretch,,,, this should help him learn to let the ball travel.

The problem is that he won't be able to reach the outside pitch with the sweetspot with his current swing. This will be easier to see if they will do front toss with an "L" screen.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
On some swings, his right elbow doesn't leave his side until he's in his follow through.

And that's bad because..?

You see this same thing in many major league swings, so obviously it's not as bad as you think.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
I thought so. I think he may be developing some bad habits that need to be fixed asap. The reason I say that, is that with the batspeed he has and his aggressive nature, he probably has good power at the moment and Coaches will be hesitant to change his swing. It will be very difficult for him to hit outside pitches with this swing and as he moves up

Let's see how he hits an outside pitch before rendering a verdict.

Right now, we have no idea how he'll make that adjustment.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The problem is that he won't be able to reach the outside pitch with the sweetspot with his current swing.

You have no way of knowing this. You're just assuming.

Let's see how he hits an outside pitch.

quote:

Originally posted by DenJake:
Link to my 11 year old son, upcoming 12u. Any recommendations, things that we should be working on this winter???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlgADNCx1-s

Thanks in advance

I would spread his feet apart and get a bit more weight shift going (he's a bit too erect) but I would ignore the comments about extension or lack thereof.

His upper body looks quite good.

Also, what's the drop on the bat?

quote:

I would spread his feet apart and get a bit more weight shift going (he's a bit too erect) but I would ignore the comments about extension or lack thereof.

His upper body looks quite good.

Also, what's the drop on the bat?

Ok, That sounds like a good idea. I will have him start a little wider.

The bat is a 30/20 so -10 drop.

quote:

Originally posted by kbat2012:
Not to be too critical, he'd better keep his head straight and keep his eye on the ball. This could be a very big flaw if it's not corrected at young age.

Thanks...
I saw a couple of mentions about his head and looking at the swing frame by frame you can really see the head tilt. I would guess he doesnt realize he is doing that. I will show him the video this evening and freeze the video at contact so he can easily see what he is doing wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by DenJake:
I saw a couple of mentions about his head and looking at the swing frame by frame you can really see the head tilt. I would guess he doesnt realize he is doing that. I will show him the video this evening and freeze the video at contact so he can easily see what he is doing wrong.

His head tilt is normal and is the result of hitting a ball that's lower down in the strike zone.

quote:

Originally posted by DenJake:
The bat is a 30/20 so -10 drop.

That helps to explain why he doesn't extend as much after the point of contact.

I would also move him farther away from the garage door so he doesn't have to worry about banging into it on his follow through.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by DenJake:
The bat is a 30/20 so -10 drop.

That helps to explain why he doesn't extend as much after the point of contact.

I would also move him farther away from the garage door so he doesn't have to worry about banging into it on his follow through.

Could you explain the above not sure I followed....Because the -10 is heavier , not heavy engough??

quote:

Originally posted by DenJake:
Could you explain the above not sure I followed....Because the -10 is heavier , not heavy engough??

He would show more extension after the POC if he was swinging a wood bat or a -3 bat.

Basically, I'm telling you to not worry (that much) about his lack of extension after the POC. To a large degree, it's probably just due to the fact that he's swinging a high-drop bat.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by DenJake:
I saw a couple of mentions about his head and looking at the swing frame by frame you can really see the head tilt. I would guess he doesnt realize he is doing that. I will show him the video this evening and freeze the video at contact so he can easily see what he is doing wrong.

His head tilt is normal and is the result of hitting a ball that's lower down in the strike zone.

???????

quote:

He would show more extension after the POC if he was swinging a wood bat or a -3 bat.

He could swing a 20 pound sledge or a wiffle bat and the same muscles would be used and the swing would look similar.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
He could swing a 20 pound sledge or a wiffle bat and the same muscles would be used and the swing would look similar.

Your understanding of physics, and concepts like centrifugal force, is clearly lacking.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by DenJake:
I saw a couple of mentions about his head and looking at the swing frame by frame you can really see the head tilt. I would guess he doesnt realize he is doing that. I will show him the video this evening and freeze the video at contact so he can easily see what he is doing wrong.

His head tilt is normal and is the result of hitting a ball that's lower down in the strike zone.

???????

It's hard to tilt the shoulders as he does, to hit the low pitch, and not tilt the head some.

quote:

His head tilt is normal and is the result of hitting a ball that's lower down in the strike zone.

Do you have any clips of a MLB player doing that?

quote:

Your understanding of physics, and concepts like centrifugal force, is clearly lacking.

I could say the same about your understanding of swinging a bat, but I won't.

quote:

I would ignore the comments about extension or lack thereof.

He is literally "PULLING" the ball across his body and that swing will not work as he moves up. There is simply not enough ability to adjust to good breaking pitches.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
He is literally "PULLING" the ball across his body and that swing will not work as he moves up. There is simply not enough ability to adjust to good breaking pitches.

Do you mean pulling the bat (not the ball)?

So what should he be doing?

Extending more at the point of contact rather than having his elbow bent 90 degrees?

Head tilt on the low pitch is normal, it must be achieved or he will run out of barrel after contact.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Do you have any clips of a MLB player doing that?

My initial reaction after watching the video was that he isnt "whipping " the bat thru the zone ..but rather pulling it sort of like powertoallfields mentioned . That is why i thought it might be best to change his starting point to get maximum use of his arms and upper body . Otherwise he might get into the habit of " casting out " with the bat . Needs to gain more " momentum " by having hands starting out closer to shoulder instead of away from body and develop a little bit of a loading mechanism . I believe this will also help in keeping his head on the ball longer . JMO

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Do you have any clips of a MLB player doing that?

The kid is tilting his head even before the ball is tossed and these tosses are thigh high. Your photo is of a ball that is probably a slow breaking pitch that will be below the knees at contact and he is well out in front of the pitch. I would say he was fooled on this pitch since he doesn't need to tilt to hit this pitch. This photo reminds me of how Adam Dunn swings. If he wasn't so big and strong, he wouldn't even be in the Minors, too many strike outs and for the reason I gave. He has trouble making adjustments to off speed, but they kind of let that stuff slide if you can hit 30 plus HRs. But, hey, it's just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
He is literally "PULLING" the ball across his body and that swing will not work as he moves up. There is simply not enough ability to adjust to good breaking pitches.

Do you mean pulling the bat (not the ball)?

So what should he be doing?

Extending more at the point of contact rather than having his elbow bent 90 degrees?

The movement with the hands and arms to the ball is a linear move. If you were to set up cones at all 4 infield positions you should be able to throw the bat and come very close to each cone. There is no way this boy can do that at the moment. When the hands leave the bat, they should be pointing at the target. Rotation and the weight of the bathead will pull the bat the rest of the way around on a regular swing.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Nobody:
My initial reaction after watching the video was that he isnt "whipping " the bat thru the zone ..but rather pulling it sort of like powertoallfields mentioned . That is why i thought it might be best to change his starting point to get maximum use of his arms and upper body . Otherwise he might get into the habit of " casting out " with the bat . Needs to gain more " momentum " by having hands starting out closer to shoulder instead of away from body and develop a little bit of a loading mechanism . I believe this will also help in keeping his head on the ball longer . JMO

I agree with the assesment and it would be trial and error with what you propose and it may take some tweeking along the way, but I can see how it would make a quick improvement.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The movement with the hands and arms to the ball is a linear move.

Please show me video of a major league hitter that demonstrates this linear move.

take a look at Ichiro's swing

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The movement with the hands and arms to the ball is a linear move.

Please show me video of a major league hitter that demonstrates this linear move.

Every single one!

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Nobody:
take a look at Ichiro's swing

Everyone know's Ichiro's different; that he slaps the ball because he's a lefty with tremendous foot speed.

How about a regular player who's not a slap hitter.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The movement with the hands and arms to the ball is a linear move.

Please show me video of a major league hitter that demonstrates this linear move.

Every single one!

Please show me a video that demonstrates what you mean..

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The movement with the hands and arms to the ball is a linear move.

Please show me video of a major league hitter that demonstrates this linear move.

Every single one!

Please show me a video that demonstrates what you mean..

http://www.recruit.hittingillustrated.com/RunningStart.htm


Watch the direction of the hands as the knob points at the ball. As the upper body comes around with the hands behind the rear shoulder, the hands will go in a straight line as they take the sweetspot to the ball.

Extension is caused by the unloading of the body and the top hand. After contact, the unloading of the top hand will make it appear the hands were making a circle, when in fact, they weren't. The analogy of "coming off of the Merry-go-round" is very good for what actually happens.

I agree with powertoallfields assessment on this kids swing as I usually do. I also see how the left wrist becomes uncocked right from the get go and he straightens out his front arm, therfore he can't maintain lead arm extension the proper way through the swing. He definitely doesn't finish the swing or swing through contact, there is some bat drag there too, most of these things are typical of a kid this age. He doesn't get separation either. His hands are activitated too soon, he needs to let the hands go for the ride and let the hips lead the way. My 2 cents.

Coach W

quote:

Power, only gurus do such things...

I'm ready to go to the mountain top, LOL! Can't afford a trip to Louisiana!

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Power, the kid in the video is loading his weight back, then, shifting his weight forward....It's all going together, top half and bottom half...It's going back together, then forward together...This is dead hands hitting....

quote:

He doesn't get separation either. His hands are activitated too soon, he needs to let the hands go for the ride and let the hips lead the way. My 2 cents.

This is a good two cents worth....Patrick W. is correct, IMO....The way to correct this is to learn how to sequence better....His body is not synching because the bottom half doesn't get ahead of the top half....This is preventing a late load of the hands which is what he needs....

A little help with the sequencing.... How much further ahead should the lower half be then the top half. I have seen some kids take a step before pitcher even release the ball and it seems like they have no momentum. (assuming you are not recommending that) Is the problem that his hands are already set from the start of the swing and maybe if he had is hands unloaded he could step and as he steps brings hands back and then start swing after hands get loaded or does he just need to start his step earlier and keeps hands back???

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
DenJake, it's about finding a pattern in your son's body movement that will get him in synch...

Keep in mind, if you are gonna help him, you need to understand how weight shift should work......The weight begins a shift during the stride and continues shifting throughout the swing process....The hands must load during weight shift 'cause the weight never stops shifting...This is what gets and keeps the bottom half ahead of the top half....

This clip shows it...Just watch the hips over and over...

Blue,

That is a very good clip to show what you are talking about. If you look at his front shoulder to tricep, you will see his torso actually leave them behind. That will not happen unless your hands are still loading as you plant your front heel. If your hands are already back, they will start to come forward along with your torso (no cusp).

Great shot of Wrigt. Thanks. Incredible amount of torque. Lots of pelvic loading going on!

That video was great and I think I am understanding what you are talking about.

How can I post a bmp image...

I have a bmp from the first soft toss swing that shows his hands are back (loaded) and front foot about 2 inch from the ground. So at that point it appears his hands start to go forward. What we would be looking for is for that foot to plant while the hands are still loaded then release once the foot touches. (Also have a game shot)

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Watch the direction of the hands as the knob points at the ball. As the upper body comes around with the hands behind the rear shoulder, the hands will go in a straight line as they take the sweetspot to the ball.

If you view this from above, the hands clearly do not move in a straight line.

Den,
To post an image here's what I do.
Go to
http://tinypic.com/?t=postupload

Click upload (top right area of page)
Then click browse.
Locate the picture that is on your computer.
Click that picture and the properties will move to the bar beside the browse button.
Go down and click the "upload now" button.
Once the picture is loaded it will appear on the screen.
Now, right click on the image and a box will pop up.
Highlight the address.
Then right click on the address and options will pop up. Click on "copy".

Then come to this site and when you go into "post reply" there is an icon that when you roll across it, it says "display image."
Click on that.
A box will come up.
Right click in that box.
Select "paste".
You now have pasted the address of your picture. Then just hit "post now".
The image should appear in the post.

Or,
You can send the image to me and I'll post it for you or help walk you thru it.
(took me a while to learn. )
lclifton@sandersonford.com

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

What we would be looking for is for that foot to plant while the hands are still loaded

DenJake, something for you to consider..

You want the front heel to plant while the hands are still loading.....You want the heel plant to interrupt the loading process...Think of whip in the hands and arms....

It's not about loading the hands and arms, then holding the load....It's about the overall body movement resulting in momentum not being stopped....Weight shift plays a big part in this....

The lower body doesn't necessarily move first....But, it does move forward first by leading the weight shift.......

Wright's sequence is weight shift, then the firing of the back hip....His hands are still loading when the back hip fires....

At least, that's the way I see it...



Ortiz...



Howard...

Again great description...

http://s5.tinypic.com/2nlwill.jpg

So in this picture you can see he is just about to bring his hands through but hasn't finished his stride. So that is where the lack of separation is.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=91dyzr&s=5

quote:

So in this picture you can see he is just about to bring his hands through but hasn't finished his stride. So that is where the lack of separation is.

Denjake,

One thing that would help right away would be for him to tip his bathead forward to about his head at the point he is in the game pic. This would give his lower body time to get ahead of his upper body. Everything else would need to be in the same place as in that pic to make it work, but it's worth a shot to see how many of his flaws it will fix.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Watch the direction of the hands as the knob points at the ball. As the upper body comes around with the hands behind the rear shoulder, the hands will go in a straight line as they take the sweetspot to the ball.

If you view this from above, the hands clearly do not move in a straight line.

The effort to get them there is. The body and like I said, the top hand end up moving them to the inside near contact, but the momentum is moving straight, not circular to the direction of the hit.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The effort to get them there is. The body and like I said, the top hand end up moving them to the inside near contact, but the momentum is moving straight, not circular to the direction of the hit.

Sorry, but this is simply wrong.

I have never seen an overhead view of a major leaguer taking a linear hand path.

Hand path is circular

John Ya Ya,

Had to laugh at the screen name. That particular movie is a cult favorite of mine!

quote:

powertoallfields; Watch the direction of the hands as the knob points at the ball. As the upper body comes around with the hands behind the rear shoulder, the hands will go in a straight line as they take the sweetspot to the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by LClifton:

quote:

powertoallfields; Watch the direction of the hands as the knob points at the ball. As the upper body comes around with the hands behind the rear shoulder, the hands will go in a straight line as they take the sweetspot to the ball.

Thanks, LClifton! That video is pretty clear.

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
Hand path is circular

For the hand path to be circular, the back elbow would have to straighten away from the body at go and then pull back in to contact. It just doesn't happen that way.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

One thing that would help right away would be for him to tip his bathead forward to about his head at the point he is in the game pic. This would give his lower body time to get ahead of his upper body.

Power, in all due respect, I don't think this is where the timing of separation happens.....

Separation starts at the moment weight shift begins, IMO...

I agree, but the tilt forward should slow the hands from starting forward, since the bathead will have to start rearward. Provided all other parts of his swing are working right, it should put him back in sync. IMO, it's worth a shot to try and see where he is at that point with another video. As I told him earlier, IMO, he should find a good instructor to work with him on a regular basis. There is only so much that can be done over the internet.

Den,
Could you post the video to the "tiny pic" site?
(I can't get you tube here).

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The effort to get them there is. The body and like I said, the top hand end up moving them to the inside near contact, but the momentum is moving straight, not circular to the direction of the hit.

Sorry, but this is simply wrong.

I have never seen an overhead view of a major leaguer taking a linear hand path.

The thing you aren't seeing is that the bottom hand only moves maybe 6" from go to contact on a pitch down the middle.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

So in this picture you can see he is just about to bring his hands through but hasn't finished his stride. So that is where the lack of separation is.

Okay, to me from this point in his swing, his hands are stacked and the bat is tilted behind him. The first thing I would try, would be to make his bat straight up and down in his stance so that all he would have to do is tilt the head of the bat toward the Pitcher in front of his head to about even with his head. From that point, he would just need to reach with his front foot toward the Pitcher as he loaded his hands and turning his bellybutton to the direction of the hit. As his front toe lands he should still be loading his hands. As the front heel plants, the back hip should fire and his hands should start to go forward. These changes can be made without changing much of what he is already doing right, IMO.

It's really no different than pitching. The Pitcher needs to get to front heel plant as the ball gets to the high c o c k e d position. The back hip fires to reach cusp.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
John Ya Ya, Had to laugh at the screen name. That particular movie is a cult favorite of mine!

It was between Ya Ya and Bigboote.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
For the hand path to be circular, the back elbow would have to straighten away from the body at go and then pull back in to contact. It just doesn't happen that way.

No, that hands would just have to turn with the back shoulder.

...which is what they do.

Also, the hand path isn't perfectly circular. However, it's much more circular than linear.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:

quote:

Originally posted by LClifton:

Thanks, LClifton! That video is pretty clear.

PTAF,

Please provide an OVERHEAD view of a major leaguer with a linear hand path.

You keep making your case based on the worst possible angle for judging the handpath.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Circular or linear hand path is semantics, IMO...

I believe a case could be made for both...It's like the rotational vs. linear swing argument...You can look at a video and see whichever one you wanna see....

The handpath is much more circular than linear, especially on a good swing.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The thing you aren't seeing is that the bottom hand only moves maybe 6" from go to contact on a pitch down the middle.

Please provide video that demonstrates this.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The thing you aren't seeing is that the bottom hand only moves maybe 6" from go to contact on a pitch down the middle.

Please provide video that demonstrates this.

How about the videos of Ortiz, Wright, and Howard on page 3 of this thread. Rotation moves them most of the way forward before they ever start to the ball. There is a frame by frame picture shot of Pujols on this site somewhere that shows exactly what I'm talking about. I believe it was from Chris O'Leary's site. You can clearly see that the hands don't move (in relation to the body) until the bellybutton is pointing forward.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
For the hand path to be circular, the back elbow would have to straighten away from the body at go and then pull back in to contact. It just doesn't happen that way.

No, that hands would just have to turn with the back shoulder.

...which is what they do.

Also, the hand path isn't perfectly circular. However, it's much more circular than linear.

I have been saying all along...AT GO...they move in a straight line to just before contact. This video shows it clearly.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Circular or linear hand path is semantics, IMO...

I believe a case could be made for both...It's like the rotational vs. linear swing argument...You can look at a video and see whichever one you wanna see....

The handpath is much more circular than linear, especially on a good swing.

As Bluedog has stated before, momentum is forward and upward, not around. If you spin, you are losing momentum THROUGH the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

As his front toe lands he should still be loading his hands...........These changes can be made without changing much of what he is already doing right, IMO.

Power, to the contrary, his whole sequence needs to change....

He is nowhere near being in synch with a workable swing pattern....

Weight shift needs to begin right after the back hip loading, or as some say, negative move...This young man has not shifted any weight and the ball is on him....

He will at least be closer. Changes may still need to be made, but you have to start somewhere. In your example of the Pitcher you were working with you said it took you 2 hours to figure out where his sync problem was, IMO, the closer you can get it, the easier it will be to fix.

quote:

Weight shift needs to begin right after the back hip loading, or as some say, the negative move...This young man has not shifted any weight and the ball is on him....

Realize that this is soft toss from 45 degree angle. A lot can happen between this point and contact. If he could show a photo a couple of frames before contact we could see better, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

So in this picture you can see he is just about to bring his hands through but hasn't finished his stride. So that is where the lack of separation is.

DenJake, yes....His lower half should be far ahead at this point in his swing process....

Can you post a clip of ARod or Soriano? Someone with a big leg lift.

Ya Ya,

It's BigbootE' ! You forgot the accent!

I guess nobody wants to be named Smallberries, though.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Their leg lift begins before ball release....

Right! What I wanted to see, was the timing of the leg lift and bat tip. The bat tip is timed with the peak of leg lift so that the hands are loading at toe plant and will be ready for "go" at heel plant. The higher the leg lift the more time you have to take to get the hips open and hands loaded. The same goes for a long stride forward.

This timing or sync as you say is the same as pitching. If a Pitcher has a runner on base, he is going to speed up his arm action and leg action. They both have to be sped up to get to the right "go" point on time.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
As Bluedog has stated before, momentum is forward and upward, not around. If you spin, you are losing momentum THROUGH the ball.

How do you define spinning?

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Circular or linear hand path is semantics, IMO...

I believe a case could be made for both...It's like the rotational vs. linear swing argument...You can look at a video and see whichever one you wanna see....

Not if you look at an overhead view.

Overhead views show that the vast majority of major league hand paths, with the exception of Ichiro, are much more circular than linear.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
I have been saying all along...AT GO...they move in a straight line to just before contact. This video shows it clearly.

The hand path is linear until the front foot plants, but from then it's circular.

I'll give you a J-shaped hand path, but not a purely linear one.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
It appears to me that he is pulling his bat through with his biceps and wrists. He isn't getting extension through the ball and he has very little separation between upper and lower body, it looks more like a spin to me.

Here's a video clip of Rocco Baldelli hitting a home run to left field using basically the same swing as the kid in question (as far as the upper body is concerned).



Obviously, your extension theory has some holes in it.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
It appears to me that he is pulling his bat through with his biceps and wrists. He isn't getting extension through the ball and he has very little separation between upper and lower body, it looks more like a spin to me.

Here's a video clip of Rocco Baldelli hitting a home run to left field using basically the same swing as the kid in question (as far as the upper body is concerned).



Obviously, your extension theory has some holes in it.

Dude! He was obviously jammed on this pitch and he adjusted accordingly.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Dude! He was obviously jammed on this pitch and he adjusted accordingly.

Precisely.

"Alligator arms" are a perfectly reasonable solution to the problem of getting jammed, which is a bit of what I see in the video that started this thread.

Extension isn't the solution to every hitting problem.

quote:

Extension isn't the solution to every hitting problem.

I never said it was. This hitter is making the same swing on every pitch. On the fly adjustments are part of hitting, but pitches in 45 degree soft toss is not where they happen, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
This hitter is making the same swing on every pitch.

...because the balls are all tossed to the same spot.

quote:

...because the balls are all tossed to the same spot.

Yep! Meat shots!

Here's a video clip of Rocco Baldelli hitting a home run to left field using basically the same swing as the kid in question (as far as the upper body is concerned).



Obviously, your extension theory has some holes in it.[/QUOTE]



The biggest difference in this swing and the kid's, is the position of the bat shaft throughout the swing. Baldelli's shaft to shoulder relationship is a few inches until launch and the kid's starts leaving the shoulder as soon as he starts to turn.

Here is the Pujols illustration I referred to earlier. Frame 24 is true extension. From frame 20 to 24 his hands move in a straight line.



http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Pr...sis_AlbertPujols.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
From frame 20 to 24 his hands move in a straight line.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Pr...sis_AlbertPujols.pdf

First, given all the blurring this is a particularly bad clip to base this argument on.

Second, a side on view is the worst possible angle to judge the hand path.

Here's a much better clip to judge Pujols' hand path...

quote:

Originally posted by LClifton:

Great clips! Watch his hands from go until top hand fires. The hands stay along the inside line of the batter's box.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
From frame 20 to 24 his hands move in a straight line.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Pr...sis_AlbertPujols.pdf

First, given all the blurring this is a particularly bad clip to base this argument on.

Second, a side on view is the worst possible angle to judge the hand path.

Here's a much better clip to judge Pujols' hand path...

Good clip! Knob goes straight to the ball from go until top hand fires. Extension will look different on an inside pitch because the back arm will need to stay bent slightly or the pitch will be hit foul. You still need to square up on the ball. The stills I provided are of a pitch down the middle which compare to the soft toss to the kid.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Knob goes straight to the ball from go until top hand fires.

If you call an arc straight.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Knob goes straight to the ball from go until top hand fires.

If you call an arc straight.

Okay, I give up. We agree to disagree.

The shoulder and hip are in sync, thats the problem, there is no shoulder hip seperation therefore he has a long loopy swing.

Ok, we have been working on trying to get separation from the lower and upper body. Does this look any better in regards to the sequencing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH8IQfVkBV0

Thanks

I like it better, I think he should be more accurate and has some adjustability with this swing although it may not be as powerful as the prior swing.

Sequencing is much better. I'd still like to see his feet further apart to gain more leverage and he still needs to straighten his head. His eyes need to be level to the ground.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

Does this look any better in regards to the sequencing.

DenJake, yes....He is getting it....

I see a more powerful swing with nice sequencing....

Thanks for all of the help. We will keep working on the swing.

FYI.. We use a speedtrac to monitor the exit speed and that really helped him to see that he was not loosing power but in fact gaining some exit speed with this swing. (max exit speed was 67mph with soft toss, prior max was 65pmh)

Also, have been mixing in a lot of high soft tosses to emulate off speed pitches and he is able to stay back on them much better now.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Sequencing is much better. I'd still like to see his feet further apart to gain more leverage and he still needs to straighten his head. His eyes need to be level to the ground.

Thanks

I agree with the head tilt, wanted to work on the sequencing first. We are going to start working on keeping his head level now.

quote:

Originally posted by LAball:
The shoulder and hip are in sync, thats the problem, there is no shoulder hip seperation therefore he has a long loopy swing.

Agree. Maybe this will help him understand the Loading Sequence.