is it bad too go after the first pitch every at bat, or is it a bad habit to get into
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well it depends, if its a fastball down the middle, why not. its gonna be the best pitch you see. but it just depends on the pitch and the situation.if you wanna get a rally goin and the pitcher has been wild then its not a good idea. i think you get the point.
it depends becuase usually in a younger league there isnt really any other pitches besides a fastball or the pitchers arent as confident throwing a curve or sumthing on the first pitch. It matters what the talent level is.
If your going after the first pitch all the time the answer is why. If you are doing it because the pitchers are throwing you fastballs over the plate all the time trying to get ahead then the answer is no. Your doing what you should do and your probaly having alot of success. If your doing it because your anxious and not waiting on a good pitch then the answer is yes. And your probaly not having a whole lot of success.
i am just very agreesive bcuz my grandfather, a semi pro ball player had told me the first pitch is the best.
what if I throw a curve ball outside every first pitch to get ahead? is it "always" the best. Depends on the pitcher, watch him in warm ups and the batters in front of you to find a pattern.
Nothing wrong with going up to bat with the idea of hitting the first pitch hard. There is something wrong with swinging at every first pitch. Even when you are being aggressive you've got to be able to take the very poor pitches to hit.
One interesting approach I've seen is to be aggressive and look for a fastball so that if you do swing at a curve on the first pitch you miss it completely unless it hangs. The last thing you want to do is hit a weak grounder off a first pitch curve. Much better to swing and miss. Even better to start to swing and take of course.
One interesting approach I've seen is to be aggressive and look for a fastball so that if you do swing at a curve on the first pitch you miss it completely unless it hangs. The last thing you want to do is hit a weak grounder off a first pitch curve. Much better to swing and miss. Even better to start to swing and take of course.
The approach of looking fb on the first pitch over the plate is a solid approach and used by alot of good players and teams. If your doing this you should never be swinging at first pitch curveball. If your looking fb over the plate and you get anything other than this you should be taking because you didnt get what you were sitting on.
What about this approach? First time through our order, our manager has every player take a pitch - even if it's their favorite pitch, directly in their happy zone and could've been driven. The theory is that it's more important to get your timing down.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Disaster! I have also seen managers employ this "strategy" and IMO it plays right into the pitchers hands. Swing at the first good pitch to hit and hit it hard.quote:First time through our order, our manager has every player take a pitch...
That brings up another point about agressive swinging that I believe. I have taught my sons to swing with the "intent" to CRUSH the ball early in the count. If they are ahead in the count and they intend to hit the ball, then hit it AS HARD AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN! When I watch MLB players take cuts at balls early in the count they swing incredibly hard. Please don't confuse my point with situational hitting or if they are behind in the count. If they see a pitch in their "happy zone" then absolutely CRUSH it.
We work on this in BP every day. At least one bucket swinging as if they wish to destroy the ball swinging as hard as they possibly can. I am trying to teach their brain to maintain proper mechanics while pushing their bodies to the limit. It has worked. They are getting much stronger, faster and clearly more agressive. My 11yo took 13 deep yesterday during that bucket with an additional 7 ground rule doubles. Practice hitting the baseball AS HARD AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN... and good things will happen. JMO.
R.
Agree with Callaway. Never seen a batter who put the first pitch in play hard strike out.
Callaway has it right.......Very good advice for any and all hitters.....
FWIW guys, I agree wholeheartedly and am absolutely SICK of watching this blanket "take" approach in every one of our games! Then she wonders why "we're only getting 8-10 hits per game" and "I thought the bats were a little flat today"??!! How many hits/rallies did we miss letting El Meatball go by?
My son fought through 7 pitches the other night and finally dropped a line drive into RF (he's a righty). Later that night, I asked him if any of the pitches he fouled off were "his" pitch (middle/in, belt/thigh high). I know a couple were not, as they were below the knees, but the ump was calling that pitch (and we've seen him do so all year). My son said, "No, but the first pitch was RIGHT WHERE I LIKE IT, my 'Home Run' pitch." (Of course, he's too small to hit one over the fence just yet, but he felt he could drive it.) So he started off 0-1, then had to fight through a myriad of marginal pitches.
IMO, at this level (11YO All-Stars), and at this late point in the year, the kids should be able to have the green light to jump all over that first pitch if it's in their happy zone.
Was just looking for some confirmation.
Thanks guys,
Sandman
My son fought through 7 pitches the other night and finally dropped a line drive into RF (he's a righty). Later that night, I asked him if any of the pitches he fouled off were "his" pitch (middle/in, belt/thigh high). I know a couple were not, as they were below the knees, but the ump was calling that pitch (and we've seen him do so all year). My son said, "No, but the first pitch was RIGHT WHERE I LIKE IT, my 'Home Run' pitch." (Of course, he's too small to hit one over the fence just yet, but he felt he could drive it.) So he started off 0-1, then had to fight through a myriad of marginal pitches.
IMO, at this level (11YO All-Stars), and at this late point in the year, the kids should be able to have the green light to jump all over that first pitch if it's in their happy zone.
Was just looking for some confirmation.
Thanks guys,
Sandman
Guys Guys Guys, I have to agree with Coach May on this and believe me we have the right"APPROACH". You have to look for one pitch only with 0 strikes on you, most people do not teach hit a first pitch curveball. And to punctuate the point, you don't throw your son many dueces in BP do ya? The only reason would be to work on hitting curveballs right? So my point is why go to the plate swinging at a pitch you really don't spend that much time swinging at in BP!
Here's an example. Last night my oldest hit two HR's and went 3 for 4. His first at bat he hit the first pitch, a FB for a HR.
His next at bat the pitcher threw him a hanging CB that he should have hit but he let go by for strike 1. The next pitch was a CB outside (not a strike) called strike 2 and the third pitch was a high CB (also not a strike) called strike 3. Backwards K. Ouch.
His third at bat he figured that he was going to get a steady diet of CB's again. He decided to look CB on the first pitch. He got the CB and launched it for his 2nd HR.
My point is that the batter needs to be able to hit FB's, CB's, sliders, whatever, confidently. The batter needs to understand the situation and the pitcher. He will, in many cases be able to guess more accurately what is coming by what the pitcher did with batters in front of him... or to him, in a previous at bat.
Do your homework, watching every batter in front of you. Learn his out pitches, watch for tendencies and patterns. The pitcher has the advantage, but the advantage can be lessened by paying close attention and being smart. JMO.
R.
His next at bat the pitcher threw him a hanging CB that he should have hit but he let go by for strike 1. The next pitch was a CB outside (not a strike) called strike 2 and the third pitch was a high CB (also not a strike) called strike 3. Backwards K. Ouch.
His third at bat he figured that he was going to get a steady diet of CB's again. He decided to look CB on the first pitch. He got the CB and launched it for his 2nd HR.
My point is that the batter needs to be able to hit FB's, CB's, sliders, whatever, confidently. The batter needs to understand the situation and the pitcher. He will, in many cases be able to guess more accurately what is coming by what the pitcher did with batters in front of him... or to him, in a previous at bat.
Do your homework, watching every batter in front of you. Learn his out pitches, watch for tendencies and patterns. The pitcher has the advantage, but the advantage can be lessened by paying close attention and being smart. JMO.
R.
I believe what Calloway just described was what we call "having a plan." His son's plan the third time around was an adjustment to what that pitcher was doing that day.
Some things we teach:
Some things we teach:
- The pitcher has been told that the best pitch in baseball is strike one. Be ready to swing on that first pitch.
- Know exactly what the game situation is, what the coach is thinking and what your strengths are.
- Know when we are hitting "backwards." Backwards to us means that this pitcher or program has a tendency to throw a first pitch curve especially to 3,4, and 5. Therefore, be prepared to hit the curve where it is pitched. Since many teams throw this first pitch curve for a strike down the middle of the plate, you aren't necessairly thinking go the other way. You might be thinking drive the ball over the fence (LOL)
- Use the on deck circle to cement your PLAN. Don't deviate from that plan once you step in. THINK LONG THINK WRONG!
- Finally, we are an aggressive program. You will never be penalized for being aggressive. You will be penalized for backing off.
quote:You have to look for one pitch only with 0 strikes on you,......
If you can't hit, this may be good advice.....If you can hit, it's terrible advice..........
quote:most people do not teach hit a first pitch curveball.
And, most people can't teach hitting.....
Good post Coach Butler, '
Just got through talking with two HS AAU ALLStars.
When I asked the 15 yo how he hit he said
" better today ...I have been taking too many FBs and getting behind and facing the CB. At least he is getting it
Just got through talking with two HS AAU ALLStars.
When I asked the 15 yo how he hit he said
" better today ...I have been taking too many FBs and getting behind and facing the CB. At least he is getting it
Interesting thread and it take me back a few years to a game my son was playing in HS--- let me set the scene---the two batters before him walked on 8 straight pitches loading the bases with two out--in comes a relief pitcher-- in comes first pitch and out it goes for a grandslam HR.---people in the stands argued with me that he should have taken a pitch--my sons answer--"Dad he needed to get the first pitch over for a strike and he took something off his fastball as well"
We always want to have the pitcher in the hole after the first pitch, not vice versa
We always want to have the pitcher in the hole after the first pitch, not vice versa
TR, GOOD FOR YOUR SON! Swingbuster, THANKS!
As a coach, if you chart how you pitch and the opponent's actions and then also chart the opponent pitches you, you definately know which teams have advanced programs and which do not. It is so much easier to prepare your team for a team that throws "forward." "Forward" for us means get ahead with the fastball and use the fastball whenever they are behind in the count. Talk about aggressive, we are really aggressive against these teams and have to wipe the drool off before we step into the box.
As a coach, if you chart how you pitch and the opponent's actions and then also chart the opponent pitches you, you definately know which teams have advanced programs and which do not. It is so much easier to prepare your team for a team that throws "forward." "Forward" for us means get ahead with the fastball and use the fastball whenever they are behind in the count. Talk about aggressive, we are really aggressive against these teams and have to wipe the drool off before we step into the box.
FIXED!
Here's another situation, 11YO All-Star State Tournament:
Top of the 6th, game tied at 2. You will replace your pitcher in the bottom of the 6th because he seems to be tiring and losing control. Bases are loaded w/ 2 outs, their starter has just walked the last 2 batters and is over 90 pitches. You’d love to get a run or 2 right here and finish this game w/ your next pitcher only having to go 1 inning (saving him for the next game). One of your coaches tells you (while you’re coaching 3rd) that their heavyset pitcher “is over 90 pitches and appears to be tiring… some extra patience might be in order”. Your current batter is your 9th hitter, a very free-swinging kid who often Ks on pitches up out of the zone. He's averaging < 200 through the District/State tourney. So you give him the take sign for the first pitch. The pitcher lays it in there for a strike.
Now... do you:
a)Assume/fear that the pitcher will all of a sudden lay 2 more strikes in a row in there, and give the hitter the green light?
OR
b)Have him take until 2 strikes, hoping to walk in the go-ahead run?
Also, this hitter is the team's catcher, and was not subbed for today, so pinch-hitting is unavailable.
In this case, manager green-lighted him. The next 2 pitches were both balls, one up near his chest, where he struggles with pitches, the other at his eyes. He flailed at both of them and struck out w/ 3 runners left on base. Maybe the go-ahead run would’ve been walked in, then bringing up the top of the order w/ bases still loaded?
Strategic thoughts?
Top of the 6th, game tied at 2. You will replace your pitcher in the bottom of the 6th because he seems to be tiring and losing control. Bases are loaded w/ 2 outs, their starter has just walked the last 2 batters and is over 90 pitches. You’d love to get a run or 2 right here and finish this game w/ your next pitcher only having to go 1 inning (saving him for the next game). One of your coaches tells you (while you’re coaching 3rd) that their heavyset pitcher “is over 90 pitches and appears to be tiring… some extra patience might be in order”. Your current batter is your 9th hitter, a very free-swinging kid who often Ks on pitches up out of the zone. He's averaging < 200 through the District/State tourney. So you give him the take sign for the first pitch. The pitcher lays it in there for a strike.
Now... do you:
a)Assume/fear that the pitcher will all of a sudden lay 2 more strikes in a row in there, and give the hitter the green light?
OR
b)Have him take until 2 strikes, hoping to walk in the go-ahead run?
Also, this hitter is the team's catcher, and was not subbed for today, so pinch-hitting is unavailable.
In this case, manager green-lighted him. The next 2 pitches were both balls, one up near his chest, where he struggles with pitches, the other at his eyes. He flailed at both of them and struck out w/ 3 runners left on base. Maybe the go-ahead run would’ve been walked in, then bringing up the top of the order w/ bases still loaded?
Strategic thoughts?
It is really difficult to speculate not knowing this batter. Does he have any speed? Maybe a squeeze would have been the way to go with the tired heavy-set pitcher on the mound.
Too many variables w/o being there. I probably would have green-lighted him from the beginning (but that's just me). I would have at least given him the fake bunt sign, rather than a straight take. It's too bad that your "All Star" catcher flails at pitches in his eyes though, makes coaching kind of tough!
Too many variables w/o being there. I probably would have green-lighted him from the beginning (but that's just me). I would have at least given him the fake bunt sign, rather than a straight take. It's too bad that your "All Star" catcher flails at pitches in his eyes though, makes coaching kind of tough!
It all depends on you knowing your players---as Callaway says "too many variables"
Also an "All star" catcher is not necessarily an "All Star" hitter
Also an "All star" catcher is not necessarily an "All Star" hitter
Yes, he's very fast and a bunt was an option. He has 4 hits in 19 or 20 times up, but... 2 were doubles and 1 was a triple. So tho there was far more likelihood of an out, perhaps mgr was focused on potential upside (albeit unlikely)?
I just thought the more likely successful scenario was to draw another walk.
I just thought the more likely successful scenario was to draw another walk.
At 11 years old, I think the last thing we should be doing is encouraging him to look for a walk. I guarantee that nobody ever received a scholarship or got drafted because they were looking to be walked in crucial situations.
Youth baseball players need to learn to expect strikes and swing aggressively. Swinging is the thing for them at that age. As they get older and develop, they eventually learn to be selective, but at that age we shouldn't want them to anticipate taking any pitches.
Youth baseball players need to learn to expect strikes and swing aggressively. Swinging is the thing for them at that age. As they get older and develop, they eventually learn to be selective, but at that age we shouldn't want them to anticipate taking any pitches.
Good point, grateful. But then again, most 11YOs aren't playing Little League Baseball to be drafted or receive scholarships. OTOH, winning a State Championship by taking advantage of a tiring pitcher shouldn't necessarily be scorned, should it? Now, if our opponent had just brought in another pitcher that inning and he was throwing strikes, then by all means, swing away.
And for most (or all) of the 8 hitters above this player, I too would be thinking green light all the way. However, when this hitter stepped up to the plate in this situation, he was averaging just 222 through 19 times up and OBP of just 263. Granted, his 4 hits were one single, 2 doubles and a triple. So maybe the manager felt the potential upside of blowing the game wide open was worth the risk? I looked at it as 3:1 or 4:1 odds against him getting on base.
Thanks for the input,
Sandman
OTOH, winning a State Championship by taking advantage of a tiring pitcher shouldn't necessarily be scorned, should it? Now, if our opponent had just brought in another pitcher that inning and he was throwing strikes, then by all means, swing away.And for most (or all) of the 8 hitters above this player, I too would be thinking green light all the way. However, when this hitter stepped up to the plate in this situation, he was averaging just 222 through 19 times up and OBP of just 263. Granted, his 4 hits were one single, 2 doubles and a triple. So maybe the manager felt the potential upside of blowing the game wide open was worth the risk? I looked at it as 3:1 or 4:1 odds against him getting on base.
Thanks for the input,
Sandman
Bunt is not a smart option because there are 2 outs.
Take first strike either is a good option, because being the 8th hitter, they will pitch to avoid the forced run.
The best is to ask time out, call the batter, meet him middle way between home and coach box and tell him: " You are my man, you are going to win this game, give me a good at bat!"
Take first strike either is a good option, because being the 8th hitter, they will pitch to avoid the forced run.
The best is to ask time out, call the batter, meet him middle way between home and coach box and tell him: " You are my man, you are going to win this game, give me a good at bat!"
