Tampering with recruiting

1. What rules?

2. Don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya. Once this season is over you can't get him out of there too quickly. Your son can call the NAIA coach confidentially, explain the situation and see if they are still interested.

JC coaches understandably want to keep their players for two years as the first year is often an investment in developing a raw player on their part. It is OK for a coach to lobby a player to stay on at a JC and it wouldn't surprise me if there's this type of communication going on at times behind the scenes but doing it in front of the player is just plain wrong.

Sounds very strange.

If you son plays JC next year perhaps it should be a different JC.

It might help for you son to talk to the HC to fully gauge the situation. I find it hard to believe the other schools would recruit a freshman without knowing the JC HC is ok with it, and/or getting his permission to beging with. The whole situation sounds a little weird.

CP - It IS very strange. But I am not sure what you meant by that...

A little more info. My son is not learning anything baseball wise, when something is wrong with his swing I have to fix it or it doesn't get fixed (I am by no means a college level coach). The team does not win and it's not necessarily due to the lack of talent. Most of the team hates the coaches and the coaches all talk bad about each other. The team got into a brawl with themselves during a game a few weeks ago...tells me the coaches have lost the team completely. So it's just a bad situation and he wants to go somewhere with better coaching.

Four year schools/scouts have talked to him after games and have shown interest. He sent letters to some schools that had contacted him and others he is interested in...this has produced much interest in him.

To attend another JC his current JC would have to release him and this particular coach said "no way in hell will we release you to another JC." They do not have to 'release' him to play at a 4 year school.

My question was asking if there are NCAA rules or college baseball rules in general (remember I am very green to all of this) that would prohibit a campaign (such as the one described in the OP) to keep a kid from leaving a particular school for a higher division.

No way will he be playing at his current school next year, considering what has transpired, so staying put is not an option.

Thanks

Another option might be coming to a California JC - you might not need the release as the CA JCs have their own regulatory body.

One thing disturbs me here---coaches have offices so why then does he have to invite your son to his home to talk ????

This is an assistant coach - not sure if he has an office... However, no witnesses...deny-ability that it happened etc...maybe, I don't know.

What does that have to do with anything though?? Are you questioning the coaches tactics or that it happened as I say it did?? Sorry, not sure I understand.

Dawg

Not questioning anything---why the guilt trip ?--Relax

I just do not see it as normal for a coach to invite a player to his home for this sort of discussion

TR, sorry I don't mean to come across as defensive/aggressive - it's hard to judge tone on a message board. Just didn't understand the nature of your question.

Now that I get it, you are right, the whole thing was really weird (for lack of a better word) to us too... I just don't understand it and it didn't seem normal or on the 'up and up' at all. There was quite a bit of intimidation being thrown around by the coach with him up in my sons face etc. Frankly the guy is lucky there is a four hour buffer between him and I...I was pretty upset the night my son called.

That was uncalled for in front of your son, I wonder what is being said behing his back when coach talks to other coaches. I do know this, there is some what of a gentlemens agreement not to recruit a JC player after one year. many coaches will not recruit unless he has HC permission.
My son is at a JC also and has done well this year, he has schools interested as well, but we are really just sitting back and letting his coach deal with phone calls. My son has not contacted anyone, he wants to show the most repect for his JC coach, because he has been good to my son all through the recruiting time and all season.
I dont know how to advise you, but I think the baseball community is a very small world , and the further you go the smaller it becomes. I advise to not step on any ones toes, I think that you want to keep good relationships with all involved when it comes to your son. TMHO

Thanks Fan! I agreed with everything you said coming into this season. I wanted him to stay for two years at the school he started with. But if you read the rest of my posts in this thread and got the gist of the story then you will see that this is not a good situation for him anymore. The whole goal of a JC should be to prepare these kids for the next level, but the simple fact is that these coaches are not capable of doing that. I don't want him to just sit back and endure another year of the same and he is at his wits end.

You're also right about the gentleman's agreement but what I am seeing now is that since the NCAA reduced the roster size of D1 schools, they are recruiting more and more out of Juco's and less out of HS. As a whole I mean, not as a rule.

If we trusted that the coaches were out for his best interest, and not their own, then we would let the coach handle it and/or work everything through him/them...but this is not the case it seems.

I really don't think it was I or my son who has done the toe stepping in this case...thus this thread...but you are right waves made at this level are felt more...

I saw something similar happen 4 years ago with a player that took a medical redshirt from a JUCO his freshmen year & played his sophmore season. The JUCO coach put tons of pressure on the player to stay & play another year but the player took the D1 offer to one of the ACC schools. It gave the player 3 years to play @ the D1 school. The player did have to contact the D1 schools himself and tell them that he wished to play baseball for them. The JUCO continued to play him but would not help the young man move on to the next level.

fan,
I think you are right the JC coaches are looking for a player to come for 2 years and generally it is a good thing. In the rare cases where a player obviously belongs at the D1 level or in the pros I don't think many coaches would stand in the way although they'd certainly be disappointed. The exception of course is the kid who goes the JC route primarily to keep himself eligible for the draft. There've been at least one, maybe more kids come out of our HS who went the JC route and were solid contributors at top tier D1s as sophmores though.

I believe it is also a bit harder to get admitted to the UC system after just one year at a JC than it used to be.

One complication to consider for a player that take a redshirt their freshman year at a CC and wants to play two more years at the CC level is that they would become 3 year Juco student.

Three year Juco students can run into significant eligibility problems when they get to their 4 year college because of the rules around making progress towards their degrees.

Montana,

I am not saying you are stepping on toes, I was making a generalization. Only you and your son can decide to make the attempt to contact and move on. I was just generalizing about stepping on toes. I also think as stated that the majority of JC coaches want them for 2 years.
My son and I for his situation have had no problems with his coach. he has been upfront and honest and told us he wants him again next year, but that he would not stand in his way. Its a difficult thing to deal with becasue if you look around the coach will find out and for my own son I dont want him to do that.
If my son feels that he wants to leave he needs to go to coach.
Your sons coach didnt handle that situation well at all and I am agreeing that it was way out of line. I hope things work out for your son and he can find a place to play where he will be happy and playing baseball.

IMO ...The rule, or unwritten rule, was violated when the 4 year school tried to recruit without going through the JC's HC. At season end he can do all the recruiting he wants and the player has the right to look elsewhere too. If the HC gives the hands off signal it becomes the 4 year coaches decision to pursue or not. Of course the player can get his name out to any school he wishes.

Thanks again for all the replies - please keep them coming.

Ozone. For this particular NAIA school they saw my son play and talked with the head coach about him. The HC has said that he does not want my son to leave but by conveying the information that the NAIA school had called about him, it seems like he would at least be understanding if he did. It was after the HC told my son that they had called that he sent them a letter and told them he was interested as well.

The NAIA school did nothing wrong. Again if we thought his current coaches would be out for his best interest he would work closely with the HC, but we don't feel this is the case and it makes it even more awkward when the HC is a large part of why my son wants to leave.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
There've been at least one, maybe more kids come out of our HS who went the JC route and were solid contributors at top tier D1s as sophmores though.

Thanks for the replies CA. The school who was recruiting him thought he could/would come in and contribute immediately as you describe above. But really, the only reason he is looking to move on is to seek better coaching and a better learning environment.

My son is at a top jc. Heck ill tell you which one Connors State. There is a gentlemans aggrement amoung coaches that recruit out of that JC. It sounds like your son should leave this summer and take the NAIA offer. Tell the coaches thanks be nice and that it was just not a fit. I think the Coach would understand how can you keep a player thats not happy in your program. As hard as a Coach as Perry Keith is I have seen kid's leave Connors and play at schools that we play. I think your right D1 schools are getting alot of JC players my son will be playing in Arkansas next year with alot of JC players going there. Tell your son keep his head up this should be fun times for him. Remember don't look back.

Great advice grazie.

I appreciate all the advice in this thread.

My son met with the HC and explained the situation and told him he was not happy. The HC said he would love to keep him but would grant a release to another JC outside their conference (which is completely understandable to me) if it turns out that is the direction my son takes.

My son also spoke to the HC about the actions of the assistant and the coach was shocked to hear of the situation. Turns out the assistant is NOT going to be the HC next year (as he had stated to my son) and the HC was said he would deal with him directly on the issue. My son expressed his sincere appreciation for the opportunity to play ball for him and they are going to part on good terms with the HC offering to help in any way he could.

My son has also been back in contact with the NAIA school and they are still interested but were holding back so as not to step on toes. There will be a visit forthcoming.

So it might have a happy ending after some significant frustration.

Thanks again everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
Montana,

I am not saying you are stepping on toes, I was making a generalization. Only you and your son can decide to make the attempt to contact and move on. I was just generalizing about stepping on toes. I also think as stated that the majority of JC coaches want them for 2 years.
My son and I for his situation have had no problems with his coach. he has been upfront and honest and told us he wants him again next year, but that he would not stand in his way. Its a difficult thing to deal with becasue if you look around the coach will find out and for my own son I dont want him to do that.
If my son feels that he wants to leave he needs to go to coach.
Your sons coach didnt handle that situation well at all and I am agreeing that it was way out of line. I hope things work out for your son and he can find a place to play where he will be happy and playing baseball.

I thought I replied to this one Fan but I guess I didn't. I got what you were saying and didn't mean to sound negative.

Him going to the HC and sitting down with him was the best thing that he could have done - good advice.

Thanks!

quote:

Him going to the HC and sitting down with him was the best thing that he could have done - good advice

Sounds like its working out, I am glad for your son and for you. best of luck