TAP Weighted Baseball Set

GO to Webball.com and look at their under overload pitching routine. There is also one at Steve Ellis site. You should only use the 7/4 oz balls.

I know about that... I was looking for a bit more extreme arm routine. I look beyond the 6oz stuff because after all, those little girls play with a 7oz. softball and a QB throws a nearly 1 pound football around without problems. So I know if you go beyond the magic 5oz. you will not hurt your arm. As long as you do it right, and that's what I was looking for.

Throwing hard is all about arm velocity. Take a look at what sprinters do to increase their speed. They work endlessly on technique (bullpens/instruction) They work overload and under load. (+/- 20% max) They strategically lift weights, with focus on bar speed. (core/legs/Olympic lifts) They also run “overs and unders”

IMO you can tailor a program for a pitcher using the same concepts. You don’t see sprinters heavy lifting and I don’t think it makes much sense to be throwing heavy balls, all you are going to do is slow your arm down. John Doyle has some good core workouts and you can get most of the Olympic lifts from youtube. I have not seen all of Woflforth’s workouts but I think there is a lot of medicine ball stuff to improve explosive leg and core action.

I might add that sprinters work long and hard on small improvements and you should expect the same thing for high velocity throwing. JMO.

BOF thanks for the reply. I don't want to argue but a sprinter does not stay within the +-20%. They pull heavy weighted sleds, they have a partner hold the rope that is attached to a harness with the sprinter pulling as hard as he can. They do plyometrics with weight vests that they constantly increase the weight. They do olympic lifts always working to increase weight. Stay +-20% of what weight? Some how a baseball ended up 5oz. Most likely it just happened. I mean think about it. If you saw a kid throwing a football nobody would tell him to put it down because he will hurt his arm. But have him pick up a 15oz round ball and OMG he's going to ruin his arm!! I think it's time we stop again with the "traditional baseball wisdom". As I said in my first post it's 99% wrong. I'm looking for ideas on routines to use these balls. I'll be trying them on me first to see what works.

This kind of says it all:

http://www.webball.com/cms/page1439.cfm

We used these at the college I had went to and had mixed results, we had a lot of guys get arm problems when the season came around. More of the issue was how we were doing the throwing, our pitching coach had us radar gunning the heavy balls from 30 feet away which was probably the stupidest thing too do with weighted baseballs. I have seen success when using a 7 oz ball to loosen up with alternating between that and a baseball.

Be careful...

We've used this program (and varieties of it) with a lot of success:

http://www.drivelinebaseball.c...nderload-principles/

i would spend the money and use Ron's program. To just buy the balls and not have a specific program in which to use them does not make sense. His program is very specific and a little different then what you might think as it is not just throwing weighted balls.

the 249 is much cheaper than tj surgery or shoulder surgery from doing things wrong.

My son is a catcher and starting about half way through football season we started a throwing workout using weighted baseballs that was way different than workouts I've seen. This year everybody is blown away by his throws/arm strength. We did it all in my "baseball laboratory"
(you have to say laboratory with an eastern European accent) in our garage. Maybe someday I'll let everybody in on how we are doing it.... all for $250.
I'll work in the Tap balls and will develop my program using me as a guinea pig. If an out of shape old man can do it .... well anybody should be able to.

Ron's program covers more than just "weighted baseballs," obviously.

We use heavier baseballs than listed in my article, but I don't publish that information. The possibility of serious injury is too high if I list a program with a more aggressive schedule and it's not followed properly. Ron is the same way, I'm sure.

Athletes don't just pick up weighted baseballs and start slinging them. Mechanically, things need to be in reasonable order before you even attempt such a training program.

Kyle B... I'm sorry I'm not picking on you but I could go out and buy dumbells and use them wrong and hurt myself, yet nobody will sell them to me and say if you don't buy my $250 program you could hurt yourself. Footballs are 15oz. yet if you tell people you are throwing a 15 oz baseball... you are going to hurt your arm. Nobody cares if kids a throwing a football wrong or throwing rocks(all 5oz.) into a lake or whatever but as soon as it's in the shape of a baseball people freak over a small difference of weight. Like 5oz is a magical weight. We are not just throwing weighted baseballs... it's a weight program that includes vests, sleds, tubes, and various other pieces of equipment.

quote:

Originally posted by Hawghauler:
Kyle B... I'm sorry I'm not picking on you but I could go out and buy dumbells and use them wrong and hurt myself, yet nobody will sell them to me and say if you don't buy my $250 program you could hurt yourself. Footballs are 15oz. yet if you tell people you are throwing a 15 oz baseball... you are going to hurt your arm. Nobody cares if kids a throwing a football wrong or throwing rocks(all 5oz.) into a lake or whatever but as soon as it's in the shape of a baseball people freak over a small difference of weight. Like 5oz is a magical weight. We are not just throwing weighted baseballs... it's a weight program that includes vests, sleds, tubes, and various other pieces of equipment.

Hawg,

No offense taken. I think if you saw my YouTube channel you might reconsider what you think you know about our training programs.

Truth is that our guys do a lot of heavy barbell training. Our most committed HS athlete just deadlifted 425 pounds at a bodyweight of 169 pounds. This is pretty darn strong, and 95% of people would say "oh no that is dangerous for him!"

So trust me, I know a thing or two about baseball parents and coaches being sissies when it comes to training.

But my point is that while our guys throw 2 lb. baseballs on a regular basis, putting that information out there publicly is going to have irresponsible 12 year olds picking up 2 lb. balls and throwing them 90 times with terrible mechanics. And when they hurt themselves, the parents will run to blame you for publishing that program.

If you want to shoot me an email (kyle at drivelinebaseball dot com) I'd love to work with you to help you design a heavier weighted baseball training program and let you know what our guys are doing. And heck, NorCal ain't too far from Seattle. We'd love to have you up here

I will within a couple of days.

Kyle,

I am going to shoot you an email with a couple of similar programs and get your take on them and we can compare notes if you want. I took a look at your site and you guys look like you are doing some interesting things. My wife's best friend lives in Seattle and I get up there from time to time and would love to come by and see what you are doing in person.

Hawg, I go to the gym every week and see HS kids doing incorrect stuff there; they use improper form, their lifting sequence is wrong, too much weight, the list is endless. In the end they are still MUCH better off than sitting at home doing video games, and generally are not going to hurt themselves. They may not reach their ultimate capabilities, but they will be stronger and athletically better as a result.

In general the same can be said for throwing with the very real caveat that you can do serious long-term damage to your elbow and shoulder if you are not careful. (the same can be said for overhead lifting). These joints fragile and frankly overhand throwing puts unnatural loads on them. So Kyle’s point is why not take advantage of all of the prior work done by athletic trainers who know a lot more about this than you do. People like Kyle and Wolforth who do this for a living are taking training techniques that have been used by Olympic athletes and applying these principles to baseball training with the knowledge of the limitations of the shoulder and elbow.

If you want to develop your own program your son will most likely be better for it, but you are subjecting him to risks that you have no knowledge of, and frankly by your comments you are showing your ignorance in this area, particularly when it comes to Olympic training techniques and applying them to baseball throwing. Your son may be just fine, but you may not know this until many years from now.

BOF:

You're more than welcome to come by and/or shoot me an email. Definitely love to talk about this stuff with interested parties.

Bof,

Gee thanks for your concern but the only ignorance I come accross is when people tell me it's okay to throw footballs and softballs but not same weighted baseballs. It used to be that baseball players should never lift weights now it's no overhead lifting. Even though it is one of the best workouts for the shoulder structure. Just like distance running will kill sprint times but baseball teams run distance all the time and slow their players down when they need sprint speed. Ignorance is following "traditional baseball wisdow" when it is wrong most of the time. Just like throwing curve balls will hurt a kids arm, yet ASMI proved just the opposite, Fastballs put more stress on the elbow and shoulder. And if you have read any of Wolforth's articles he used to think that long toss and weighted baseballs were bad for the arm.
Check out what he used to think vs. today
http://www.webball.com/cms/page1439.cfm

Thanks for the concern.

Kyle,

I would love some more info on you in season training. Do you work with other sports as well?
What types of olympic lifts do you do?

Do you use wolforth's routine or do you have something different?

I am just about as far away from Seattle as I can get here in Ga.

quote:

Originally posted by Basecoach:
Kyle,

I would love some more info on you in season training. Do you work with other sports as well?
What types of olympic lifts do you do?

Do you use wolforth's routine or do you have something different?

I am just about as far away from Seattle as I can get here in Ga.

We do train other athletes. Right now I am training a shot put / discus / javelin athlete and a few football guys as well. (Basketball players are rumored to be coming in shortly.)

Our field athletes perform the power clean, jerk, and power snatch. Everyone else (including baseball pitchers) only power clean, as the snatch is relatively specialized and technique-dependent while the clean is easier to learn and all about power production off the floor.

Our routine is not Wolforth's, though I respect him very much and hope to meet up with him next year (possibly at the coach's convention).