Taunting, Razzing...Initiated by College Head Coach

Your son should have made up some absurd nickname (like pussy cat) and told his brother. Then try not to laugh his arse off when it was used. To actually address your post razzing is something coaches and adults should stay away from. 

Wow.  No other real words.  Just wow.

A few observations from an outsider:  be proud of how both sons handled the situation.  Many of the adults involved did not act like adults, yet your boys seemed to do so.  Sad the grandparents had to hear and see it, but, again, the fact the older son did his thing despite the taunting speaks volumes as to what kind of person he is inside and not just what kind of pitcher he is on the mound.  Your younger son was put in an impossible situation and he had no choice but to provide an answer to his coach, someone who should know better and did not.  

Wow.

I would not stand for taunting of any of my players and neither should any of his teammates.  We recently played a "Christian" team who vandalized our school last year after a basketball game.  One of our pitchers who is very wild took matters into his own hands, twice.  I asked him if that was payback for last year and he just gave a wink.  

Bush League comes to mind...  Good to hear the Branson Brothers stood tall.  You can be even more proud of your boys.

That's very disappointing.  You have every right to be upset.  Congrats on your restraint. I would have made a fool of myself already.

We had a meeting with a D3 coach who went into great detail about they do intrasquad games in which they are encouraged, or rather required, to taunt the other team mercilessly, with only race and sexual orientation off the table.  

That's starting to sound like a really good idea.

Branson, I'm so disappointed to hear this.  Thank God your older boy has such thick skin.  And thank God, your younger boy loves him so much. 

I can't think of another thing to say about this, other than just offer you and your family good thoughts, and kudos for your self-restraint.  No way I would be able to handle it the way you are.

Kudos to your boys and their character. My son went through something like this is a big HS matchup his senior year. Personal comments yelled at him from the stands and sidelines about his GF at the time and looking like a dog...and other stuff. He threw a CG, 1 hit SO for the win on the #1 HS team in the nation in 2015 at the time. 

Some adults really suck. They take advantage of being adults in authoritarian positions and then do something like this. If that was another kid I am sure he would not have given him "insider info" like that. No way. But because he is the HC he felt compelled to be truthful. Of course the HC used it against him. What a jerk!

That Coach sounds like a real piece of work.

Try to just look at the positive. Your two boys got to play each other in college.  They are beating the odds by making it to college ball. Getting the opportunity to play each other in college with their Grandparents in attendance is an extremely blessed situation.  Don't give the goofball Coach an opportunity to take anything away from this awesome moment in all of your lives.

Branson, there's a lot that irks me about that situation that your sons encountered and the behavior of the head coach is at the top of the list.  But also, as a former event manager (before my career focused full-time on NCAA rules), a very close second is the PA announcer joining in.

At some point when you feel the time is right, you may want to contact the Athletic Director at that college to ask if that's the way he wants his athletic department to be represented.  I surely hope not!!  I'm certain that none of the AD's that I worked for would have accepted that for one second.  

Also, if this game was a conference game, you may want to reach out to the Conference Commissioner as that reflects badly on the whole conference in my opinion.

2 Huge issues for me....1) Obviously the coach asking your younger son for a nickname, knowing he was going to use it to taunt your older son.  Sorry, but if it's me, that may have been my son's last game on that team

2) The PA Announcer?  Are you kidding me?  That may have been my son's last day at that school. 

You're a better man than I am for not having already taken matters into your own hands with regard to contacting the coach.  I really think maybe the AD first may be a better choice.  If I was in your shoes and had been at the game it would have gotten really ugly really quick.  Congrats to you on handling it like you have so far, but I really think that this needs to be addressed with someone....AD, Coach, or Both.  Razzing/taunting a kid is one thing, but to do it the way they did (using your younger son) and the PA is beyond ridiculous

Branson,

Kudos to you for taking some time to cool off before addressing it with the coach and/or the AD. As has been said above.....Things would have got really ugly, really fast had that been me in your shoes (even worse if I was in attendance).

Definitely needs to be addressed. A little 'sit down' with both the coach and AD (at the same time) would certainly be in order (imho).

So what was the childhood nickname?  

Is this really that big of a deal?  We are not talking about boys.  These are men.  Isn't your oldest son in his 20's?

While it's not something I would do as a coach, I don't see it as something I would make my adult son quit the school and program.  Or a need to contact AD and conference heads.   

Your youngest needs to take some responsibility.  I understand his position, but there is all kinds of things he could have done to defuse the situation.  Like let his brother know before hand.  

Good place to vent.  I know you wouldn't say team name but can you say what division?  I'm curious.

I know, also, that you are in a tough spot in regards to talking to coach or AD considering that your son will have to play for the team for the next 3+ years.  Perhaps there is a way to share some pics of grandparents at the game with mention of how special the event was to be for them with both grandsons playing against each other, mentioning his current physical condition and how disappointed they were when they heard the taunting.  That may very well provide necessary perspective.

By the way,

All taunting, razzing, etc technically is initiated by the coaching staff.  It's either apart of the team culture or it is not.  That culture is a reflection of the coaches and program not the players.  Players conform to the culture.  

DesertDuck posted:

Branson,

Kudos to you for taking some time to cool off before addressing it with the coach and/or the AD. As has been said above.....Things would have got really ugly, really fast had that been me in your shoes (even worse if I was in attendance).

Definitely needs to be addressed. A little 'sit down' with both the coach and AD (at the same time) would certainly be in order (imho).

Ditto for me

Thank you to all who replied and thank you for letting me vent. 

I'm pressing the pause button, but will ultimately communicate to the AD and coach when that request for $$$ comes my way...which it will for any of us who have kids in college baseball know.

My youngest did tell his brother in advance as I wrote in the original post.

And I'm not making my son quit the team or school and I never implied such.  What he chooses to do is something he'll talk to me about after the season.

Is this really that big of a deal?  Anyone who thinks this taunting is ok because this is a competition is unbelievable to me.  You want to taunt a professional athlete, well, I guess that's your prerogative.  IMHO, adults, coaches, opposing players, the PA announcer doing relentless taunting...that all just crosses a line for me for unpaid student-athletes.  Student fans in the stands...again, I'm not a big fan of it but there's meatheads everywhere.

Someone had inferred they would consider taking their son out of the program and or school.  Sports are loaded with taunting.  I agree the PA is over the top as well as the coach leveraging your youngest son.  

Again we are talking about men.  Not boys.  

Like most have posted here, I am outraged by the coach's behavior.  Using one son to stab another in the back... 

Low class, dumb, moronic, childish, and so forth.  Worst off, he demonstrated the poorest of leadership qualities to his team.  I don't think any coach should be encouraging his kids to cat-call the other team let alone what was done here.  The coach's job is to teach them how to be leaders in their own right, how to be good sportsmen while still being competitive, and also letting them have fun.  Fun comes from winning and the pursuit of winning imho.  If you have to stoop to that level to win, then people should want no part of that. 

Egging the team on to act like children may seem like fun but imho there is no fun at all in that.  I am disappointed I even read what happened in this thread because it has upset me.  I am sorry your family was subjected to that.

Not that it matters, but I've been giving this a bit more thought, and I have to wonder if this coach had some real issues with an older brother when he was a kid, and still hasn't gotten over it yet.  

Also have to wonder if this coach's Dad didn't egg it on between this coach and a brother.  At the least, it would appear that the Dad certainly didn't do anything to correct the behavior when the coach was a kid.

My son told me the foulest mouth "a-hole" team he played in 4 years of D1 baseball was an Ivy League team with a good reputation.....until you heard them play.  

If your younger son feels like he wants to clear the air with the coach so be it, but I'd have low expectations and perhaps consider it a career ender at that school.  

There are plenty of coach's out there that do it the right way, even if their fan's don't, the player's usually follow the coaches lead.  My son's college coach was yelled at by a parent, he immediately yelled at the kid " in my office after the game" loud enough for the parent/s to hear.  Player did not return.  Parent problem resolved, even if he was right.

I guess I'm going against the grain here. 

The only one I would be pissed at would be my younger son for letting anyone pressure him into doing something he knew was a bad idea or that could have negative consequences. How hard would it have been to say "we called him (insert name here)" and leave it at that. 

One thing I hope I've taught my son is to resist the temptation to please others for no good reason. And that sometimes saying no is OK. 

Ah, Branson.  Really sorry to hear of this.  There really is no need for trash talk at all.  Especially from fans.  Nothing says "I'm a loser" quite like talking junk from the stands.  That goes for middle school through the MLB.

 Your kid's coach sounds like a conniving weasel having him address the team before this particular game and then extorting this information out of him.  Man, that's not a guy I would want leading and influencing my son.  Take some time, pray for wisdom and temperance, and do not let your anger cause you to sin.

All the best.

Branson Baseball posted:

Thank you to all who replied and thank you for letting me vent. 

I'm pressing the pause button, but will ultimately communicate to the AD and coach when that request for $$$ comes my way...which it will for any of us who have kids in college baseball know.

My youngest did tell his brother in advance as I wrote in the original post.

And I'm not making my son quit the team or school and I never implied such.  What he chooses to do is something he'll talk to me about after the season.

Is this really that big of a deal?  Anyone who thinks this taunting is ok because this is a competition is unbelievable to me.  You want to taunt a professional athlete, well, I guess that's your prerogative.  IMHO, adults, coaches, opposing players, the PA announcer doing relentless taunting...that all just crosses a line for me for unpaid student-athletes.  Student fans in the stands...again, I'm not a big fan of it but there's meatheads everywhere.

.

  Your son can start packing his bags now if that is your course of action

unbelievable, and disappointing to say the least. I am livid for you and your family, 

I've thought things over Branson.  You can do one of three things after talking to your younger son. 1) You and he just deal with the slight and move on.  2) Your son decides that he doesn't want to play at the school for the coach and you mention something to the AD.   If your kid stays, he will be retaliated against by the coach, so he has to go.  3) have your son sit down and talk with the coach and say something to the effect of, "Coach, you had me address the team.  You asked what my brother's nickname was, and then everyone but the people in the concessions stand jeered my brother.  I've got to ask you, what were you thinking when you did this?"   It may be that the coach didn't see the harm.  Maybe that was how he and his brother related or something.   But, knowing that it came across as not appreciated may serve to make him think about the wisdom of the decision and refrain from doing something like this again.  He may apologize and be somewhat hopeful that this mater doesn't get back to the AD, which it might anyway.  Regardless, your son has expressed your and his feelings on the matter in a way that does not put the coach in a bad place with his boss and he won't be retaliated against. 

The coach could double-down and say, "Hey don't be such a wimp.  This is a man's game." or some such garbage.  At this point you have fleshed out that the coach didn't simply make a dumb mistake, rather, he may not the kind of guy you want influencing your kid for the next several years.   

Then you go back to 1) Just deal with the slight and move on. 2) Son transfers and maybe you say something to the AD, maybe you don't.

Look this coach crossed the ultimate line - he betrayed the trust and used one of his players in a embarrassing way.  Coaches talk about family and character and most of them do practice it but this time this coach has lost all credibility with his team (or at least should).  This goes beyond have a thick skin, it's just trash talk and all the other stuff that's been said.  He betrayed the trust of a player he recruited and wanted to come into his program just to do some bush league stuff.  I'm surprised the younger son stayed in the dugout and not quit right on the spot.  But he's young and probably had no clue what to do just like he was a deer in the headlights when asked to speak in front of the team.  You don't do that as a coach.  You have made a inherent promise to the players and even the parents of the players that you are taking those young adults onto your team and will look out for them.  Can anyone truly say this is looking out for the younger son?  There's no way you can say that and how he can have any credibility with the team says a lot about the character of those guys who still play for him.  

Personally, family comes first even if you don't like them.  But as a coach you try to build that family first mentality with your guys how can you do that when you stab one of them in the back?  If I'm another player on that team and see how he threw the younger son under the bus then I'm thinking he will do that to any of the players if it benefits him.

I say run away as much as possible and tell the AD as you leave.  This is about character and loyalty and this coach has displayed none.  This is a huge issue.

I completely agree with Coach 2709.  Thanks for putting it so clearly.

Thinking about it it's hard not to come to the conclusion the coach doesn't see your son as being a integral part of the team. I find it hard to believe the coach is so dense he wouldn't realize what he was doing would cause hard feelings. 

I'm not sure I'd waste my time talking to the coach, he's made his feelings perfectly clear. I would however start thinking about a plan B as to the son's baseball career. 

Total crap for Head Coach putting your youngest in that situation.  The rest of the ragging, etc, is par for the course.  Usually the fans/idiots in the stands doing the taunting are the jealous fools that have never sweated a jock before.  Not laughing at the situation but it's a good thing they didn't do that to my two.  They call each other 'insert male body part here ---> _____ sack!  My oldest would have laughed himself off the mound with that nickname being chanted in the crowd!

God, family, country and baseball.  Thats the order for me.  I guess not for this coach...disappointing.

Anyone who thinks their own 18-year old put on the spot like that from a person who controls everything they dream about would act differently...is likely fooling themselves.  Both sons handled it well Branson.  You should be proud.

Through our sons, I have heard plenty of taunting and name calling in the stands around me.  It kind of stung the first time or two.  Only one time did I ever say anything.  It was a minor league game with our older son pitching in Richmond for Harrisburg.  He had a knee injury that would require surgery after the season.  But because it was two National League minor league teams, he had to hit.  Singled early in the game, limped over to first base.  Next time up he hit a routine grounder to 3rd, easily thrown out...he didn't run too hard out of the box.  30ish fan and girlfriend/wife behind me started with all kinds of ugly $hit running out of their mouth at him.

I turned to go up the stairs and said calmly, 'why don't you give him a break, he's hurt and he's my son.'  The returned, silent, stunned look was priceless and worth any embarrassment I had for saying anything to begin with.  Based on the looks on their faces, I doubt they ever taunted a player again.

It was just humanizing the situation for them.  I never yell at our taunt college or pro players.  There's always a story for why they do what they do...I just usually don't know it.  In the case described by Branson - I'd bet that 99% of the students and adults would be appalled if they knew the story behind this one too.

Teaching Elder posted:

I've thought things over Branson.  You can do one of three things after talking to your younger son. 1) You and he just deal with the slight and move on.  2) Your son decides that he doesn't want to play at the school for the coach and you mention something to the AD.   If your kid stays, he will be retaliated against by the coach, so he has to go.  3) have your son sit down and talk with the coach and say something to the effect of, "Coach, you had me address the team.  You asked what my brother's nickname was, and then everyone but the people in the concessions stand jeered my brother.  I've got to ask you, what were you thinking when you did this?"   It may be that the coach didn't see the harm.  Maybe that was how he and his brother related or something.   But, knowing that it came across as not appreciated may serve to make him think about the wisdom of the decision and refrain from doing something like this again.  He may apologize and be somewhat hopeful that this mater doesn't get back to the AD, which it might anyway.  Regardless, your son has expressed your and his feelings on the matter in a way that does not put the coach in a bad place with his boss and he won't be retaliated against. 

The coach could double-down and say, "Hey don't be such a wimp.  This is a man's game." or some such garbage.  At this point you have fleshed out that the coach didn't simply make a dumb mistake, rather, he may not the kind of guy you want influencing your kid for the next several years.   

Then you go back to 1) Just deal with the slight and move on. 2) Son transfers and maybe you say something to the AD, maybe you don't.

I don't think having him talk to the coach is that great of an idea.  The coach knew what he was doing, and I think going to the coach will only worsen the situation.  I personally would either try to move on from it, and if this type of behavior continues, leave the program, or just leave the program now.  I wouldn't want my son to play for a classless guy like this.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Thinking about it it's hard not to come to the conclusion the coach doesn't see your son as being a integral part of the team. I find it hard to believe the coach is so dense he wouldn't realize what he was doing would cause hard feelings. 

I'm not sure I'd waste my time talking to the coach, he's made his feelings perfectly clear. I would however start thinking about a plan B as to the son's baseball career. 

I am not sure the coach spent any time thinking about what he was doing, or what the potential damage could be.  I think this is who he is.  This is not just a mistake, this is his character.  I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

justbaseball posted:

God, family, country and baseball.  Thats the order for me.  I guess not for this coach...disappointing.

Anyone who thinks their own 18-year old put on the spot like that from a person who controls everything they dream about would act differently...is likely fooling themselves.  Both sons handled it well Branson.  You should be proud.

Through our sons, I have heard plenty of taunting and name calling in the stands around me.  It kind of stung the first time or two.  Only one time did I ever say anything.  It was a minor league game with our older son pitching in Richmond for Harrisburg.  He had a knee injury that would require surgery after the season.  But because it was two National League minor league teams, he had to hit.  Singled early in the game, limped over to first base.  Next time up he hit a routine grounder to 3rd, easily thrown out...he didn't run too hard out of the box.  30ish fan and girlfriend/wife behind me started with all kinds of ugly $hit running out of their mouth at him.

I turned to go up the stairs and said calmly, 'why don't you give him a break, he's hurt and he's my son.'  The returned, silent, stunned look was priceless and worth any embarrassment I had for saying anything to begin with.  Based on the looks on their faces, I doubt they ever taunted a player again.

It was just humanizing the situation for them.  I never yell at our taunt college or pro players.  There's always a story for why they do what they do...I just usually don't know it.  In the case described by Branson - I'd bet that 99% of the students and adults would be appalled if they knew the story behind this one too.

I would say their reaction shows that they at least got message.  Some people would have kept carrying on, and the situation could have gotten ugly.

We experienced many situations, but the one that has always bothered me the most, was when WSU had come to watch my son pitch at a rival's home field, and the fathers of the opposing team kept saying how our son was overrated.  To me that just spoke of jealousy.

Great post, JBB. I can't imagine taunting any player at any level. Glad you were able to humanize the situation for them. One time my son was pitching in a 14U game, a line drive came up the middle and almost got him, and parents of the other team started yelling stuff about hit him with it next time, knock him out of the game, etc. (the game wasn't going well for them -- that line drive was the first hit -- but I was astonished that parents would be yelling for a child to be hurt). There are some crazy people out there.

I suppose I'd make an exception for humorous banter from a student section -- which is not taunting. Recently there was a high school game where a presumed top 2017 top draft pick was sitting 97 - 99 mph, and media reports were that the student section of the opposing team was yelling, "C'mon, throw your fastball!" 

I think you guys take this way to serious.  It's just busting someone's chops for the sake of gamesmanship.  If I am playing my best friend ping pong we trash talk each other.  And that happens to me my wife.  We find it fun.  At college level and above we are active in chants made to rattle the opponent.  It makes you feel like you have a part in the game as a fan.

Real green, you've posted numerous times on here that you don't think it's a big deal.  Do you have kids?  If so, do they play sports, and would you want them treated that way?  Show your wife the original post and see if she would want your kids treated that way.

Yes, three kids.  

Ok, cool.  Would your wife like them being treated that way??