Of course not. But she also knows it's just part of the game and it doesn't mean anything.
There is no way that this was the first time that this team and home fans taunted an opposing pitcher. It just happened to be a players brother this time so it was taken personally. It is not personal.
If you have problem with the culture of a team, it should have come up earlier.
It certainly seems clear that this was well beyond the normal scope of typical college fan trash talk ... ( initiated by HC, putting his own player in an unnecessarily difficult position with family, continued by PA announcer). But it is a bit hard to determine just how offensive without knowing what was said (what was nickname, tone, etc). I doubt this is the case but it is possible that what may be very offensive to the OP may be within "tolerable" as expected razzing for others. Lots of "maybe"s I can still envision, although it certainly does not look good.
So, I'm not sure it is the proper directive to suggest that OP have his son leave the school based on this event when we don't know some of those important specifics. Committing to a college and the baseball program is a BIG commitment in many ways. There are many ramifications to transferring. I'm more a fan of finding ways to address problems any way possible until you determine there is no fix.
cabbagedad posted:It certainly seems clear that this was well beyond the normal scope of typical college fan trash talk ... ( initiated by HC, putting his own player in an unnecessarily difficult position with family, continued by PA announcer). But it is a bit hard to determine just how offensive without knowing what was said (what was nickname, tone, etc). I doubt this is the case but it is possible that what may be very offensive to the OP may be within "tolerable" as expected razzing for others. Lots of "maybe"s I can still envision, although it certainly does not look good.
So, I'm not sure it is the proper directive to suggest that OP have his son leave the school based on this event when we don't know some of those important specifics. Committing to a college and the baseball program is a BIG commitment in many ways. There are many ramifications to transferring. I'm more a fan of finding ways to address problems any way possible until you determine there is no fix.
Well said cabbagedad. The nick name would help fill in some blanks. =-)
Also, I could see a younger brother not giving up the whole story on how it all came about. Especially after seeing how upset the family was about the whole situation.
So as a dad, contacting administration or coaches, how would that play out if the coaches gave a different side to the story? What if the younger brother was caught during a team meeting chatting on the side with a fellow teammate and got called out? A detail like that might have been left out by the younger brother. The list is long...
Back to the fact that these are young men, not boys. Mom and Dad should handle this as they see fit within the family. They should not reach out to the school. If after the family discusses the situation, and the young men feel the need to contact administration superiors than it should come from the young men.
JCG posted:That's very disappointing. You have every right to be upset. Congrats on your restraint. I would have made a fool of myself already.
We had a meeting with a D3 coach who went into great detail about they do intrasquad games in which they are encouraged, or rather required, to taunt the other team mercilessly, with only race and sexual orientation off the table.That's starting to sound like a really good idea.
The other team's fans and possibly the players are going to taunt. It may be good practice to deal with it in a scrimmage. It might also be funny as hell as long as it doesn't get personal.
My son said some team's fans are so good at taunting it's a comedy show. He never took any of it personally. The key is don't get distracted.
justbaseball posted:God, family, country and baseball. Thats the order for me. I guess not for this coach...disappointing.
Anyone who thinks their own 18-year old put on the spot like that from a person who controls everything they dream about would act differently...is likely fooling themselves. Both sons handled it well Branson. You should be proud.
Through our sons, I have heard plenty of taunting and name calling in the stands around me. It kind of stung the first time or two. Only one time did I ever say anything. It was a minor league game with our older son pitching in Richmond for Harrisburg. He had a knee injury that would require surgery after the season. But because it was two National League minor league teams, he had to hit. Singled early in the game, limped over to first base. Next time up he hit a routine grounder to 3rd, easily thrown out...he didn't run too hard out of the box. 30ish fan and girlfriend/wife behind me started with all kinds of ugly $hit running out of their mouth at him.
I turned to go up the stairs and said calmly, 'why don't you give him a break, he's hurt and he's my son.' The returned, silent, stunned look was priceless and worth any embarrassment I had for saying anything to begin with. Based on the looks on their faces, I doubt they ever taunted a player again.
It was just humanizing the situation for them. I never yell at our taunt college or pro players. There's always a story for why they do what they do...I just usually don't know it. In the case described by Branson - I'd bet that 99% of the students and adults would be appalled if they knew the story behind this one too.
There's something about having your son's play criticized from the stands, in the paper or online that puts it into perspective when you judge other players.
(Timeout for advice: If your son's program has a chat board stay away from it or you will get pissed. I don't care how good is your kid.)
Often fans don't realize a season can be a long grind. The player is giving everything he has that day. It may not be 100% of his ability. But it's 100% of what he has that day.
Want to floor a fan at a MLB game? Ask them if they've ever considered a player may be playing sick, have marriage problems or a sick kid at home. Then ask them if it would distract them at work.
Sometimes threads bring back memories. This is about a coach and culture. My son's middle school basketball coach was a former ACC, NBA and overseas player. He wanted to coach at the teaching level.
My son said the players knew the coach was steamed with their play when a timeout started with ... Gosh, darn it guys!
The guy also coached an 18u AAU team helping players get to college ball. His son told my son he was the same way at the 18u level.
Some people are wired as good people (not that anyone has to be this polite). Some people are wired as turds.
Trash talk happens and sometimes it's hilarious, sometimes it's downright mean but typically in the middle. Every single college player needs to have a thick skin in order to deal with it because it's going to happen. I get that and I'm ok with that. I'm a trash talker and when me and my players are goofing off doing some things I'll talk trash to them and they will talk trash to me. I took my guys bowling once and it was nothing but fun trash talk. But I didn't violate the trust in my players by using something about their family against them - "hey Johnny good luck here but while you're doing this I'mg going to take your mom out and bring her back dirty". You don't use your players family against them and that is what this coach did. He has displayed he has no character and then he made it worse by telling the PA announcer to get a stadium full of people to participate. He is using bush league tactics to win but my question is if he has to resort to this to win then why isn't he making players better in practice? Is he good enough to make players better in practice to win or is only able to pull bush league tactics?
coach2709 posted:Trash talk happens and sometimes it's hilarious, sometimes it's downright mean but typically in the middle. Every single college player needs to have a thick skin in order to deal with it because it's going to happen. I get that and I'm ok with that. I'm a trash talker and when me and my players are goofing off doing some things I'll talk trash to them and they will talk trash to me. I took my guys bowling once and it was nothing but fun trash talk. But I didn't violate the trust in my players by using something about their family against them - "hey Johnny good luck here but while you're doing this I'mg going to take your mom out and bring her back dirty". You don't use your players family against them and that is what this coach did. He has displayed he has no character and then he made it worse by telling the PA announcer to get a stadium full of people to participate. He is using bush league tactics to win but my question is if he has to resort to this to win then why isn't he making players better in practice? Is he good enough to make players better in practice to win or is only able to pull bush league tactics?
I must be missing something. It was a childhood nickname. How bad could that be? "Trash talk happens and sometimes it's hilarious, sometimes it's downright mean but typically in the middle." Many times the spectrum between hilarious and mean has nothing to do with the content. Everything to do with how the individual perceives it. Also, no way this is the first game the home crowd got into the taunting. To go there, it has to be the culture of the home crowd. Why wasn't it an issue before? Plus, there is a very good chance the younger brother isn't being 100% honest on how this all came about.
I just wanted to insure the OP put this into the correct perspective before he does something that might not be in the best interest of his son's baseball future. Blowing up the coach might seal the deal for his son to ever play baseball again. Maybe it's worth it to protect the integrity of his family. I wasn't there. To me, as described, I wouldn't feel the need to possibly end my son's baseball career.
coach2709 posted:Trash talk happens and sometimes it's hilarious, sometimes it's downright mean but typically in the middle. Every single college player needs to have a thick skin in order to deal with it because it's going to happen. I get that and I'm ok with that. I'm a trash talker and when me and my players are goofing off doing some things I'll talk trash to them and they will talk trash to me. I took my guys bowling once and it was nothing but fun trash talk. But I didn't violate the trust in my players by using something about their family against them - "hey Johnny good luck here but while you're doing this I'mg going to take your mom out and bring her back dirty". You don't use your players family against them and that is what this coach did. He has displayed he has no character and then he made it worse by telling the PA announcer to get a stadium full of people to participate. He is using bush league tactics to win but my question is if he has to resort to this to win then why isn't he making players better in practice? Is he good enough to make players better in practice to win or is only able to pull bush league tactics?
I couldn't agree more with coach here. The offending coach took his green Freshman who has to play for him for 4 years and put him on the spot in front of the entire team to get him to turn over something embarrassing about his family to be used against him. Indirect threat by coach who pressured him + peer pressure. How can you justify that? You people who talk about it's some coaches "culture" and somehow you should know that when you sign up for a program did not read the original post. He said he had never seen his son's (Freshman) team taunt another team. So it was not part of the culture they signed up for. Put yourselves in the shoes of this family and think real hard before you shoot off your mouth saying it's just a bunch of men jokingly "trash talking".
real green posted:coach2709 posted:Trash talk happens and sometimes it's hilarious, sometimes it's downright mean but typically in the middle. Every single college player needs to have a thick skin in order to deal with it because it's going to happen. I get that and I'm ok with that. I'm a trash talker and when me and my players are goofing off doing some things I'll talk trash to them and they will talk trash to me. I took my guys bowling once and it was nothing but fun trash talk. But I didn't violate the trust in my players by using something about their family against them - "hey Johnny good luck here but while you're doing this I'mg going to take your mom out and bring her back dirty". You don't use your players family against them and that is what this coach did. He has displayed he has no character and then he made it worse by telling the PA announcer to get a stadium full of people to participate. He is using bush league tactics to win but my question is if he has to resort to this to win then why isn't he making players better in practice? Is he good enough to make players better in practice to win or is only able to pull bush league tactics?
I must be missing something. It was a childhood nickname. How bad could that be? "Trash talk happens and sometimes it's hilarious, sometimes it's downright mean but typically in the middle." Many times the spectrum between hilarious and mean has nothing to do with the content. Everything to do with how the individual perceives it. Also, no way this is the first game the home crowd got into the taunting. To go there, it has to be the culture of the home crowd. Why wasn't it an issue before? Plus, there is a very good chance the younger brother isn't being 100% honest on how this all came about.
I just wanted to insure the OP put this into the correct perspective before he does something that might not be in the best interest of his son's baseball future. Blowing up the coach might seal the deal for his son to ever play baseball again. Maybe it's worth it to protect the integrity of his family. I wasn't there. To me, as described, I wouldn't feel the need to possibly end my son's baseball career.
You are missing something because you're not getting it. It's not about the taunting or what his nickname was back in the day. It could have been Cuddle Bunny which is completely harmless. It's the coach trying to turn one of his players against his brother in order to win some stupid mind game that has very little to do with winning. He put him in the spotlight in front of the team and coerced him to turn against his brother just to win a game. Once again if this is what the coach has to do in order to win a game then how good of a coach is he when it comes to developing skills and executing strategy?
Here is a detailed list of what he did wrong
1. He asked one of his players for information about his brother that is irrelevant to winning
2. While doing #1 he put him in a spotlight that he never should have been in
3. He used that information to get the team to talk junk about one of their own's brother
4. While doing #3 he is creating a division between the team and one of his players - lack of chemistry
5. He went too far when he told the PA announcer to help him conspire to be a douche and take what was said in the locker outside of the locker room - hard to say what's said in the locker room when HE'S the one going out of the locker room
It's not about what was said or how it was said - it's about the means to create the situation. The coach is wrong absolutely wrong
2020Mom posted:coach2709 posted:Trash talk happens and sometimes it's hilarious, sometimes it's downright mean but typically in the middle. Every single college player needs to have a thick skin in order to deal with it because it's going to happen. I get that and I'm ok with that. I'm a trash talker and when me and my players are goofing off doing some things I'll talk trash to them and they will talk trash to me. I took my guys bowling once and it was nothing but fun trash talk. But I didn't violate the trust in my players by using something about their family against them - "hey Johnny good luck here but while you're doing this I'mg going to take your mom out and bring her back dirty". You don't use your players family against them and that is what this coach did. He has displayed he has no character and then he made it worse by telling the PA announcer to get a stadium full of people to participate. He is using bush league tactics to win but my question is if he has to resort to this to win then why isn't he making players better in practice? Is he good enough to make players better in practice to win or is only able to pull bush league tactics?
I couldn't agree more with coach here. The offending coach took his green Freshman who has to play for him for 4 years and put him on the spot in front of the entire team to get him to turn over something embarrassing about his family to be used against him. Indirect threat by coach who pressured him + peer pressure. How can you justify that? You people who talk about it's some coaches "culture" and somehow you should know that when you sign up for a program did not read the original post. He said he had never seen his son's (Freshman) team taunt another team. So it was not part of the culture they signed up for. Put yourselves in the shoes of this family and think real hard before you shoot off your mouth saying it's just a bunch of men jokingly "trash talking".
First off this green freshman has been in the program for up to 8 months. As I stated earlier, if it went down as stated the coach was out of line to call on the freshman for dirt. Again I have a funny feeling that dad didn't get the whole story and the story doesn't add up regarding the culture. It doesn't just happen over night. Maybe the offended family just didn't see it because it wasn't their kid.
I do know making decisions around my emotions typically doesn't pan out well. Such as firing off an email or phone call to coaches or administration because I am mad that my kids got their feelings hurt. Personally, I think it's a great lesson for a young adult to learn how to navigate in an environment where you do not agree with some leadership decisions. We all know that never occurs through life!
Also the op states how this was all out of character for the coaches. Maybe it all happened exactly as presented and this was just a poor decision by the coaches. Coaches are not perfect, no one is, so again why would you risk your sons baseball career over a one off mistake.
