TCIS

I know that Cape Henry has a club loaded with talented seniors who gave Greenbrier a run for the money last year. They should be even better this year. Robert Morey is the most well known of the pitchers. A UVA signee, he had a 89-91 mph fastball last year and could be mid 90's this year. Pete Levitt is the #2 guy, and he could be the sleeper. At 6'4", and 230 lbs, his 87-89 mph fast ball should be low 90's this year. If he can find the curve, he could be real trouble. At the plate, Levitt has averaged 8 HR's the past 2 years. Look for more this year. Parker Talbot is the #3 man. A lefty, he held his own last year and should be even better this season. He would be a #2 or #1 on many other clubs. Coleman Newel is the 4th starter and will see action in reliefe as well. If the Dolphins can put runs on the board, they will be quite difficult to beat.

what about the other teams though...NSA, Norfolk Collegiate, Norfolk Academy, Catholic...anybody have anything on those teams?

Not to hurt anyone's feeling but I saw these two players pitch last year and I didn't see the velocity your speaking of but mostly I didn't see good location from either one of these guys. I also realize that one is going to UVA but is it for baseball or academics? He could still be on the roster for baseball but on an academic scholarship.

quote:

Originally posted by impartialbut:
I know that Cape Henry has a club loaded with talented seniors who gave Greenbrier a run for the money last year. They should be even better this year. Robert Morey is the most well known of the pitchers. A UVA signee, he had a 89-91 mph fastball last year and could be mid 90's this year. Pete Levitt is the #2 guy, and he could be the sleeper. At 6'4", and 230 lbs, his 87-89 mph fast ball should be low 90's this year. If he can find the curve, he could be real trouble. At the plate, Levitt has averaged 8 HR's the past 2 years. Look for more this year. Parker Talbot is the #3 man. A lefty, he held his own last year and should be even better this season. He would be a #2 or #1 on many other clubs. Coleman Newel is the 4th starter and will see action in reliefe as well. If the Dolphins can put runs on the board, they will be quite difficult to beat.

Feelings are not hurt at all. I stood behind a scout holding a radar gun for each of those boys during more than one game for each and saw the numbers myself. Have no idea why you would want to talk them down, though. One was 5-2 and the other was 6-2 with a 1.29 era. One pitched a no-hitter in the TCIS semi-finals last year against NA. Those are the numbers, not my opinion. I will agree that what I wrote could have been misleading as I have no idea if Morey signed a letter of intent to play at UVA, or will be a walk on. He is an excellent student, however, and that is also a fact. But, the proof is in the puddin and the season is about to start. I be watching the locations of the pitches for ya!

Scholarship offer terms are generally kept confidential, but my understanding is that Morey is considered an elite player and as such I would expect he got a fair amount of baseball money from UVA. Especially since pitchers tend to fare better in that department than non-pitchers.

I'm not putting anyone down, theses are 17 -18 year old players who will develop but I also watched them and didn't see what you saw. I was just going on what someone posted and had a different take.QUOTE]Originally posted by SSBR:
Not to hurt anyone's feeling but I saw these two players pitch last year and I didn't see the velocity your speaking of but mostly I didn't see good location from either one of these guys. I also realize that one is going to UVA but is it for baseball or academics? He could still be on the roster for baseball but on an academic scholarship.

quote:

Originally posted by impartialbut:
I know that Cape Henry has a club loaded with talented seniors who gave Greenbrier a run for the money last year. They should be even better this year. Robert Morey is the most well known of the pitchers. A UVA signee, he had a 89-91 mph fastball last year and could be mid 90's this year. Pete Levitt is the #2 guy, and he could be the sleeper. At 6'4", and 230 lbs, his 87-89 mph fast ball should be low 90's this year. If he can find the curve, he could be real trouble. At the plate, Levitt has averaged 8 HR's the past 2 years. Look for more this year. Parker Talbot is the #3 man. A lefty, he held his own last year and should be even better this season. He would be a #2 or #1 on many other clubs. Coleman Newel is the 4th starter and will see action in reliefe as well. If the Dolphins can put runs on the board, they will be quite difficult to beat.

[/QUOTE]

It all depends on who is putting the "elite" tag on a player. Not just this player but any player. College coaches are looking for the best but even they have a difference of opinion when it comes to players not just pitchers.there are times Coach O'Connor and his staff sign players for samll amounts of scholarship money to see if the player will develop and then give an increase to that scholarship. This player has potential by their standards apparently but some other coach might not see as much potential.He is a quality player, no doubt, but "elite" is not a term I would use to describe any player because its all relative. Don't forget attitude,commitment and work ethic come into the equation of any player.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Scholarship offer terms are generally kept confidential, but my understanding is that Morey is considered an elite player and as such I would expect he got a fair amount of baseball money from UVA. Especially since pitchers tend to fare better in that department than non-pitchers.

Because it is relative you can use the word elite! You just have to state in what context you are referenced to. I.E., since such a very small percentage of high school baseball players go on to play in college, let alone division 1 college ball , one could make the case that relative to all the other high school players, the ones going on to play Div.1 college ball are all elite! By the way, I did not call Morey elite, that was Midlo Dad. But I don't take acception to the use. And if you mention Robert Morey to any of the locally based pro scouts, or any of the college scouts that patrol these waters, they know who he is because he does stand out from most of the rest.Apparently, however, you, SSBR take acceptions to pointing out those who have risen above the crowd.Why is that?
This board is all about opinions. You are welcome to yours. I actually, as it relates to the speed of the pitches those 2 boys throw, was not stating my opinion, or what it looked like to me. I was relating what I saw on digital readouts of scouts and coaches radar guns. On several occasions. And I do not believe that speed alone tells the whole story. But I also did not say it did, either. Remember, Levitt really needs to find his breaking stuff?

It sounds like you have "thin skin ". I have talked to some scouts and recruiters and "elite" wasn't the term used for describing this player, however it was mentioned that he had "potential" which I agree, he does. Its your opinion that he has risen above the crowd but what crowd? There are a number of "stand out" players in this area, all will not play D-1, either by choice or another circumstances but the measuring stick is not D-1 I can assure you.

quote:

Originally posted by impartialbut:
Because it is relative you can use the word elite! You just have to state in what context you are referenced to. I.E., since such a very small percentage of high school baseball players go on to play in college, let alone division 1 college ball , one could make the case that relative to all the other high school players, the ones going on to play Div.1 college ball are all elite! By the way, I did not call Morey elite, that was Midlo Dad. But I don't take acception to the use. And if you mention Robert Morey to any of the locally based pro scouts, or any of the college scouts that patrol these waters, they know who he is because he does stand out from most of the rest.Apparently, however, you, SSBR take acceptions to pointing out those who have risen above the crowd.Why is that?
This board is all about opinions. You are welcome to yours. I actually, as it relates to the speed of the pitches those 2 boys throw, was not stating my opinion, or what it looked like to me. I was relating what I saw on digital readouts of scouts and coaches radar guns. On several occasions. And I do not believe that speed alone tells the whole story. But I also did not say it did, either. Remember, Levitt really needs to find his breaking stuff?

Morey and Levitt are both elite high school pitchers. There is no question about it. They would be the number one pitchers on almost every team in the area (minus GCA w/Bullman and Kemps. w/ Ramirez) More importantly they are both outstanding students and people. They both throw very hard (high 80's and touching 90).

I agree, they are both outstanding students and people, which was never in question. They are also very good players who have potential to go to the next level, hopefully they will get there.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Chapel:
Morey and Levitt are both elite high school pitchers. There is no question about it. They would be the number one pitchers on almost every team in the area (minus GCA w/Bullman and Kemps. w/ Ramirez) More importantly they are both outstanding students and people. They both throw very hard (high 80's and touching 90).

Perfect Game ranks Morey # 285 in the class of 2007, saying, "He wraps his 71 mph curveball some in back but gets very tight, hard spin on the pitch and sharp downer biting action. He also threw a 76 mph change. Morey has touched 90 mph before in front of Perfect Game scouts and he has an electric arm."

If that doesn't make him one of the elite in your book, your book doesn't have a lot of pages.

I was going to come on here and say that I thought that it was you, SSBR, that had the THIN SKIN, but on reflection I think the antonym CALLOUS is more appropriate. Opinions are fine, disagreements with my opinions, or anyone else on here, are welcomed. But I take issue when you post negative comments about a player by name. These are high school kids, not adults, and they and their friends read these boards. We all form first impressions of players, but to "evaluate" a player without seeing him play several times is foolish, to post negative comments after seeing him play once is, well, callous.

quote:

Originally posted by SSBR:
It sounds like you have "thin skin ". I have talked to some scouts and recruiters and "elite" wasn't the term used for describing this player, however it was mentioned that he had "potential" which I agree, he does. Its your opinion that he has risen above the crowd but what crowd? There are a number of "stand out" players in this area, all will not play D-1, either by choice or another circumstances but the measuring stick is not D-1 I can assure you.

1) You say the measuring stick is not Div. 1. For many it is. You also say that no scouts and college coaches have referred to either of these players as elite. (FWIW, pro scouts are looking for a little bit more than just D1 talent) So who is more right you or impartialbut? It looks like you are just trying to pick a fight.

2) Morey and Levitt can both touch 90. By that standard alone, it makes them "elite". Not many in this area (or the country) who hit 90.

You need to read a little closer. I said I had talked to SOME scout and recruiters. My opinion is D-1 is NOT the measuring stick. There are plenty of pitchers who can touch 90 mph but that doesn't mean they are "elite", I could throw a high fastball and touch 90 but that doesn' make me "elite" or a PITCHER . You need to go to some of these "showcases" because you'll see pitchers throwing 89-92 but they are not pitchers they are throwers. Get in the game.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:

quote:

Originally posted by SSBR:
It sounds like you have "thin skin ". I have talked to some scouts and recruiters and "elite" wasn't the term used for describing this player, however it was mentioned that he had "potential" which I agree, he does. Its your opinion that he has risen above the crowd but what crowd? There are a number of "stand out" players in this area, all will not play D-1, either by choice or another circumstances but the measuring stick is not D-1 I can assure you.

1) You say the measuring stick is not Div. 1. For many it is. You also say that no scouts and college coaches have referred to either of these players as elite. (FWIW, pro scouts are looking for a little bit more than just D1 talent) So who is more right you or impartialbut? It looks like you are just trying to pick a fight.

2) Morey and Levitt can both touch 90. By that standard alone, it makes them "elite". Not many in this area (or the country) who hit 90.

You better read my post, I NEVER MENTIONED ANY NAMES. Get it staright before YOU post.

quote:

Originally posted by 44hokie:
I was going to come on here and say that I thought that it was you, SSBR, that had the THIN SKIN, but on reflection I think the antonym CALLOUS is more appropriate. Opinions are fine, disagreements with my opinions, or anyone else on here, are welcomed. But I take issue when you post negative comments about a player by name. These are high school kids, not adults, and they and their friends read these boards. We all form first impressions of players, but to "evaluate" a player without seeing him play several times is foolish, to post negative comments after seeing him play once is, well, callous.

Please do not think I have only seen Cape Henry play only once or twice or I have only seen their pitchers, all their pitchers, once or twice because that is not accurate.They are a good team with good pitching.I wish them well but they have other quality players.

quote:

Originally posted by SSBR:
You better read my post, I NEVER MENTIONED ANY NAMES. Get it staright before YOU post.

quote:

Originally posted by 44hokie:
I was going to come on here and say that I thought that it was you, SSBR, that had the THIN SKIN, but on reflection I think the antonym CALLOUS is more appropriate. Opinions are fine, disagreements with my opinions, or anyone else on here, are welcomed. But I take issue when you post negative comments about a player by name. These are high school kids, not adults, and they and their friends read these boards. We all form first impressions of players, but to "evaluate" a player without seeing him play several times is foolish, to post negative comments after seeing him play once is, well, callous.

Okay- So if we agree not to use the word "elite", what would be YOUR measuring stick to determine that a young athelete stood far apart from the average? I have been told by a pro scout that everyone on this board and most of the baseball world of Hampton Roads knows that when a young pitcher crosses the 90MPH mark, he is a "Must-Follow". I agree that it does not mean he is a great pitcher....but it seems to mean that he has crossed a threshold not many cross. Is that not spomething?

quote:

Originally posted by SSBR:
You need to read a little closer. I said I had talked to SOME scout and recruiters. My opinion is D-1 is NOT the measuring stick. There are plenty of pitchers who can touch 90 mph but that doesn't mean they are "elite", I could throw a high fastball and touch 90 but that doesn' make me "elite" or a PITCHER . You need to go to some of these "showcases" because you'll see pitchers throwing 89-92 but they are not pitchers they are throwers. Get in the game.

I have been to quite a few showcases and have seen quite a few games. How many D1 pitchers hit 90 in games? Estimates, of course.

Well, why don't you just tell me how many 90 mph pitchers we have in the area. I will throw out 2 Bullman and Ramirez. Tell me more since there are "plenty".

Redbird ....can you call me or pm me

I would say mental make-up, location of pitches, movement and the ability to change speeds. I agree you need a decent fastball but just because you touch 90 isn't the "ultimate" I had a D-1 coach, in the ACC, tell me about a prospect that we all agree on this message board is one of the tops in our area, that he throws hard but " he hits alot of bats" because the ball is flat without alot of movement. You also have to agree that a D-1 school, like Elon is not the same as a D-1 like UNC or GA Tech. Thats my point, D-1 is not, to me, the measuring stick. Not that Elon is not a good school to attend but its not the baseball school that UNC or GA TECH is. Some schools are not a good "fit" for some players, be it D-1 or D-3 but that doesn't deminish the players abilities if he attends a D-3. If you remember last year on this message board some people declared the top five pitchers in the region only to have 3 of them go in the tank and some that were not mentioned had a very good year and commit to D-1 schools.One other thing, if you can't take someone else's opinion about a player who YOU named on your post and expected everyone to agree, then don't mention players names because that invites what people think is critcism, when its an opinion and parents and players get their feeling hurt.I wouldn't use the word "ELITE" for any HS player , I would say they are "just above average" because when they get outside of this area that they might not even be that, you and I both have seen it happen.

quote:

Originally posted by impartialbut:
Okay- So if we agree not to use the word "elite", what would be YOUR measuring stick to determine that a young athelete stood far apart from the average? I have been told by a pro scout that everyone on this board and most of the baseball world of Hampton Roads knows that when a young pitcher crosses the 90MPH mark, he is a "Must-Follow". I agree that it does not mean he is a great pitcher....but it seems to mean that he has crossed a threshold not many cross. Is that not spomething?

NA beat Lake Taylor 5-4 yesterday in its first game inside the tidewater area

You should not have an opinion unless you are prepared to defend it, and that means support your beliefs when you are challenged. That is all we do here. I don't believe I ever used the word "elite" in my posts, nor did I claim that touching 90 is the "ultimate" You used the term "elite" first. Go back and read your own posts. You also started your posts by challennging my reporting of speed of pitches I had observed on radar guns with your "feelings"about pitch locations. While all of the qualities you mentioned in your last post are certainly ones that are important and considered by college caoches and pro scouts, THE FACT REMAINS that what can be measured objectively is used most universally when comparing hundreds of young ball players. That is one of the reasons EVERY SCOUT HOLDS A RADAR GUN.That is why every kid is timed at every PG event six ways from sunday. And yes there are different levels of Div. 1 schools. That is another fact. But what does it mean? Any high school ball player who can go on to the next level, which ever level that is, has separated himself as a very small fraction of high school ball players who is good enough to do so. In some ways, and maybe in every way they are the cream of the crop. Each one of your statements in the above post taken on it's own merits might well be true, but put together, what is the point you are trying to make? That if you play in college, you are really only marginally better than all of the high school kids who don't go on to play? Or that it is not possible for a kid to be a real standout in highschool? Or that there are no objective standards that can be applied to rate high school players? Or that you just don't think the boys at Cape Henry are as good as I think they will be?

The term "elite" was used by someone else who was referring to player who he names in his post. If you think that the radar gun is a judgement of someone's value as a pitcher then we will never agree. I've been asked what gun was used because one is 3-4 mph slower than another and one is just not accurate at all. You are right, that scouts and recruiters use them, obviously touching 90 or 91mph is something that impresses you but scouts and recruiters are looking for much more. I look for a players who has potential, above average, who has the attitude and heart for the game. Give me that and you can have your radar guns, your 90's and your "elite", not saying you used the term "elite",but that word is bantered around not by scouts and recruiters but by PARENTS, which makes up approximately 90% of this message board. It's not what I think about Cape Henry or their players, good school and athletic program. When people, most who are parents, use names of players and terms such as "elite" they had better be ready for other opinions such as mine. Have a nice day.

SSBR,

I guess you missed my question - please tell me the names of the "plenty" of kids who throw 90 around here.

It's s great day. I will end this discussion with you with this last thought: If you would read a post and try to understand the overall point that is being made, instead of focusing in on a word or phrase and abstracting that as the entire point being made, we might actually be more in agreement than you think! You obviously have made the point that you are some sort of "scout". Good for you! I don't doubt that you look for those intangibles in a player. They are in my opinion as well absolutely nessecary for success at any level. The point I tried to make several times that you don't seem to get is that in basketball, you don't often look for a center who can go on to play high level college ball and perhaps pro ball amoungst the boys under 6"6', no matter how much heart, desire, and attitude they have. You see the height first, and then you look for the other things. I believe that most of the time,. but not all the time you look at the most visable and measureable things in a pitcher first, such as the speed of his fastball, and move on from there. Yes, movement, ease out of the hand, control, desire, attitude, and performance are also critical. But not so critical when you are throwing 84 mph- most of the time. You have your self a nice day too!

Maybe you missed it but I don't use names in my posts. However, if you go to "Showcases" you will see plenty of pitchers or throwers that throw 89-92mph, but you will also see that if they don't have movement of that 89-92 mph fastball they get "ROCKED" and when they do get "ROCKED" scouts, as well as alot of D-1 recruiters, start scratching names off.I've seen them from Northern Va to South Carolina and they are a dime a dozen. On the other hand I've also seen your 84-85 mph pitcher , with movement and change of speeds totally dominate very good hitters but if they don't have movement they also get "Rocked". Velocity is good but not the measuring stick.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
SSBR,

I guess you missed my question - please tell me the names of the "plenty" of kids who throw 90 around here.

I'm sorry it's hard to communicate with someone who has a "horse in the race" so I'll end with this, I've enjoyed this bannter with you but open your eyes and mind and realize that its not all about the parent.The player doesn't get as half upset as parents do when they are challenged and thats a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by impartialbut:
It's s great day. I will end this discussion with you with this last thought: If you would read a post and try to understand the overall point that is being made, instead of focusing in on a word or phrase and abstracting that as the entire point being made, we might actually be more in agreement than you think! You obviously have made the point that you are some sort of "scout". Good for you! I don't doubt that you look for those intangibles in a player. They are in my opinion as well absolutely nessecary for success at any level. The point I tried to make several times that you don't seem to get is that in basketball, you don't often look for a center who can go on to play high level college ball and perhaps pro ball amoungst the boys under 6"6', no matter how much heart, desire, and attitude they have. You see the height first, and then you look for the other things. I believe that most of the time,. but not all the time you look at the most visable and measureable things in a pitcher first, such as the speed of his fastball, and move on from there. Yes, movement, ease out of the hand, control, desire, attitude, and performance are also critical. But not so critical when you are throwing 84 mph- most of the time. You have your self a nice day too!

Hitting 90 on the gun occassionaly is not being a 90mph pitcher. Scouts look for a kid who can throw 90 pitch after pitch. 12 times in a row is what denotes someone who throws 90 or above not just once in a while. Pitchers who can do that do stand out and are sought after by pros and college. It is similar bto the kid who runs a 6.5 or lower sixty every time and the kid who runs a 6.9 once.

Okay- I give. You are right.

quote:

Originally posted by SSBR:
Maybe you missed it but I don't use names in my posts. However, if you go to "Showcases" you will see plenty of pitchers or throwers that throw 89-92mph, but you will also see that if they don't have movement of that 89-92 mph fastball they get "ROCKED" and when they do get "ROCKED" scouts, as well as alot of D-1 recruiters, start scratching names off.I've seen them from Northern Va to South Carolina and they are a dime a dozen. On the other hand I've also seen your 84-85 mph pitcher , with movement and change of speeds totally dominate very good hitters but if they don't have movement they also get "Rocked". Velocity is good but not the measuring stick.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
SSBR,

I guess you missed my question - please tell me the names of the "plenty" of kids who throw 90 around here.

I have been to many showcases around the state.

I am very familiar with movement and it's affect on hitters. However, you are incorrect in that college recruiters start marking kids off their "list" just because they get hit hard at a showcase. You can teach movement...simple arm angle adjustments and finger pressure but you cannot teach velocity. Some pro scouts might but even they feel a kid can learn movement with proper coaching. And, yes, I understand pro scouts and college coaches look for different nuances in a pitcher. But don't discount the importance of velocity. If you ask 100 scouts what they look for in a pitcher, velocity will always be in the top 3.

Since this is titled TCIS- I will report that my "horses" over at Cape Henry are taking on Stonebridge @ 4 pm at home. It has been reported that both Morey and Levitt will throw a few innings each in this the first game of the season- heck, it's like the 3rd time the entire team has been out on the field together at once. I'm off to the field.

how'd Cape play against Stonebridge?

Stonebridge has work ahead of them. Having said that, Coach Ingram pitched all of his regular starters in this first game. Morey started in the first, struck out 3 and gave up a questionable hit (some thought the 3rd baseman should have had it- I did not). Levitt pitched the next 2 innings, threw a total of about 22 pitches, struck out the side twice and got the win. Newell threw a shutout 4th inning, and the lefty Talbot ending the game with a shutout 5th inning. The Dolphin's took it 10-0 in 5. Impressions- Morey look good, fastball was fast and got a strikeout on his nasty curve. Levitt never threw a ball out of the zone, his control and placement looking really sharp. I was told he was throwing 90 ( oops- was I allowed to say that?) Parker and Talbot, the 3 and 4 pitchers were also looking very good for a first game. Overall- not bad. The defense had very little oportunity to work, so we will have to see more later on.

NA plays host to NSA on tuesday for their first TCIS game of the year

P4R- Be sure to report on that game!
CHC plays Christchurch at CHC today at 4pm. Levitt to pitch, as well as Morey.

Not sure how good christchurch is. Coach Waite is a good baseball coach, but is still rebuilding that program. Add to difficulty, their best player from a year ago transferred schools.