i am eager to learn rotational hitting and theres no kind of coaches around here that teach it. is there anywhere i can buy a video and maybe get some feedback as to what im doing?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I don't wanna sound like a dick or anything but rotational hitting is not the way to go! The last thing you want to do is pull-off your favorite pitch and hit a weak ground ball to shortstop. Stay through the ball and don't get started with the bad habits of rotational hitting, it will only shorten your baseball career!
This thread is gonna go nowhere fast...
ugcatcher2,
Let's avoid the rotational vs linear debate/details. This will open a can of worms. You can read all the internet guru's opinions on this all you want and it only complicates things in my opinion.
I would recommend Mike Epstein's DVD if you want instruction and a better understanding of "rotational" hitting. If nothing else, it is very helpful in breaking down the swing. It is easy to overexagerate some of his drills but if you understand his description of the swing and closely view MLB film clips, it is very educational for a learning purpose. Make your own opinion for what works for you.
Have a great summer!
Let's avoid the rotational vs linear debate/details. This will open a can of worms. You can read all the internet guru's opinions on this all you want and it only complicates things in my opinion.
I would recommend Mike Epstein's DVD if you want instruction and a better understanding of "rotational" hitting. If nothing else, it is very helpful in breaking down the swing. It is easy to overexagerate some of his drills but if you understand his description of the swing and closely view MLB film clips, it is very educational for a learning purpose. Make your own opinion for what works for you.
Have a great summer!
franch07
Good rotational hitters vary their extension depending on pitch location, thus avoiding the pulling off the ball. The bat head goes to the ball, not the hands. Extension does vary though.
And all hitters liniear or rotate chop balls now and then, they get fooled by the pitch, roll over and hit a bad ball.
Don't want to get into a debate regarding hitting
approach. It is useless.
I have seen coaches teaching kids the rotational swing and having them pulling their hands (and bat)
out of the hitting zone too early. Personally, I do not like this. You can still have a very powerful rotational swing and get some extension into the hitting zone. Beware, easier said than done.
Good rotational hitters vary their extension depending on pitch location, thus avoiding the pulling off the ball. The bat head goes to the ball, not the hands. Extension does vary though.
And all hitters liniear or rotate chop balls now and then, they get fooled by the pitch, roll over and hit a bad ball.
Don't want to get into a debate regarding hitting
approach. It is useless.
I have seen coaches teaching kids the rotational swing and having them pulling their hands (and bat)
out of the hitting zone too early. Personally, I do not like this. You can still have a very powerful rotational swing and get some extension into the hitting zone. Beware, easier said than done.
No such thing as rotational vs. linear.....
Best hitters in the world are MLB hitters.....Do what they do if you can figure it out....Most can't!!
Best hitters in the world are MLB hitters.....Do what they do if you can figure it out....Most can't!!
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
No such thing as rotational vs. linear.....
Best hitters in the world are MLB hitters.....Do what they do if you can figure it out....Most can't!!
Lets not start another argument here, if you want to see a long debate just go to my topic Rotational Clarification.
The best and most productive hitters in the game are all rotational hitters so you are on the right track in your desire to learn rotational hitting. It's not really anything "new" as many would like you to believe. All the great hitters, from years long gone by, that come to mind when you think of Hall of Famers were "rotational hitters"(just a term). Players like Ruth, Williams, Mantle, Mays, et. al. The list is VERY LONG.
A great source for rotational hitting information is Mike Epsteins site.. www.MikeEpsteinHitting.com
You can possibly find a coach in your area or somewhat close to you who is an instructor.
You are always welcome to contact me with questions.
A great source for rotational hitting information is Mike Epsteins site.. www.MikeEpsteinHitting.com
You can possibly find a coach in your area or somewhat close to you who is an instructor.
You are always welcome to contact me with questions.
quote:All the great hitters, from years long gone by, that come to mind when you think of Hall of Famers were "rotational hitters"(just a term). Players like Ruth, Williams, Mantle, Mays, et. al. The list is VERY LONG.
That same list of great hitters also had very "linear" aspects to their swing.....
When you say "rotational" is just a term, you are correct.....It's a marketing term which is very misleading when attempting to explain how MLB hitters swing a bat........
Watch this video of Clemente swinging a bat standing on only his front foot and hitting......I'm pretty sure that doesn't fit your description of "rotational" as it pertains to the MLB swing....
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=45&n=1&m=12&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9
You are correct. Usually the Linear movement happens during the "style" portion of their swing, but once they established their balance point, it becomes purely "rotational"(there's that word again) and 95% of baseball's hall of fame hitters hit that way.
I agree with you about the term. It's more of a marketing term than anything. The two approaches should probably be called "front-foot hitting"(which is where the pitcher wants you) and "balanced hitting" which is what all hitters strive for. It is hard to achieve on any given pitch because of those darn pitchers always trying to throw off a hitter's timing. And they succeed usually 70%+ of the time.
I agree with you about the term. It's more of a marketing term than anything. The two approaches should probably be called "front-foot hitting"(which is where the pitcher wants you) and "balanced hitting" which is what all hitters strive for. It is hard to achieve on any given pitch because of those darn pitchers always trying to throw off a hitter's timing. And they succeed usually 70%+ of the time.
P.S. Sorry I didn't see the link for the video link the first time I read your post.
Great video. I've seen it before. This is a "rotational" swing. He is matching his swing plane to the plane of the pitch. He is not swinging down.
Also, a wise thing to do when analyzing any swing is to take into account where the pitch is/was. In this case, it is up in the zone. Which means he leveled out his shoulders which in turn causes an inevitable forward(linear) movement. Ah Ha! Linear! How about that. However, he blocks any more forward movement with his front leg, but the shear momentum of this movement caused by the level shoulders from a pitch up on the zone causes his rear foot to come off the ground.
I submit to you, if we should look at Clemente swinging at a pitch down in the zone he would be in a more traditional (rotational) position that so many people talk about. Too many however, don't account for how hitters must adjust to varying pitch locations. So, again as I said when analyzing a swing you must consider where the pitch location was.
My definition of the perfect swing is the adjustments that a hitter makes to the pitch that he gets. It is usually seen when a hitter gets the pitch he is looking for, in the area he is looking in, and at the velocity he is expecting resulting in a hard hit ball most of the time.
Great discussion. Feel free to contact me privately anytime to discuss hitting.
Great video. I've seen it before. This is a "rotational" swing. He is matching his swing plane to the plane of the pitch. He is not swinging down.
Also, a wise thing to do when analyzing any swing is to take into account where the pitch is/was. In this case, it is up in the zone. Which means he leveled out his shoulders which in turn causes an inevitable forward(linear) movement. Ah Ha! Linear! How about that. However, he blocks any more forward movement with his front leg, but the shear momentum of this movement caused by the level shoulders from a pitch up on the zone causes his rear foot to come off the ground.
I submit to you, if we should look at Clemente swinging at a pitch down in the zone he would be in a more traditional (rotational) position that so many people talk about. Too many however, don't account for how hitters must adjust to varying pitch locations. So, again as I said when analyzing a swing you must consider where the pitch location was.
My definition of the perfect swing is the adjustments that a hitter makes to the pitch that he gets. It is usually seen when a hitter gets the pitch he is looking for, in the area he is looking in, and at the velocity he is expecting resulting in a hard hit ball most of the time.
Great discussion. Feel free to contact me privately anytime to discuss hitting.
quote:Also, a wise thing to do when analyzing any swing is to take into account where the pitch is/was. In this case, it is up in the zone. Which means he leveled out his shoulders which in turn causes an inevitable forward(linear) movement.
Here is a Hall Of Fame player swinging at a low pitch.......Do I see linear movement here, too?
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=37&n=1&m=12&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9
quote:This is a "rotational" swing. He is matching his swing plane to the plane of the pitch. He is not swinging down.
So, for the sake of discussion....
If you extend the arms and disconnect the arms from the shoulders and swing your arms up to the ball, that is rotational?
Awesome! Another one I have seen. You are correct once again. There is linear movement prior to launching his swing. Then he blocks that movement with his front leg and establishing his balance point and the rotation begins. This is common with a lot of hitters.
What happens prior to the actual swing often does have linear movement. Yes inertia must be broken and it usually is with linear movement. When I teach players, we alway initially focus on the swing from launch to contact to finish. The actual swing itself. What a player does prior to swing launch is a matter of personal style and comfort. However, if that pre-swing style causes a player not to get to the launch position on time then it must change. This very thing is what Alex Rodriguez's new hitting coach addressed prior to this current season when they were re-building his swing. And that was the fact that his leg kick was too high preventing him from getting to the launch position on time in too many cases. His new Yankees swing coach had him lower his leg kick. They would have left this alone if it wasn't causing a problem.
Again, with Hank here he is making adjustments based on the pitch he got. Did he get what he was looking for, where he was looking for it, and at the velocity he was expecting? I really can't tell from this limited video picture. It appears his tries to get on the pitch plane, but as is the case with all low pitches that is a difficult thing to do. Hence, why pitchers like to keep the ball down here. It is a difficult pitch to hit and do great damage with.
What happens prior to the actual swing often does have linear movement. Yes inertia must be broken and it usually is with linear movement. When I teach players, we alway initially focus on the swing from launch to contact to finish. The actual swing itself. What a player does prior to swing launch is a matter of personal style and comfort. However, if that pre-swing style causes a player not to get to the launch position on time then it must change. This very thing is what Alex Rodriguez's new hitting coach addressed prior to this current season when they were re-building his swing. And that was the fact that his leg kick was too high preventing him from getting to the launch position on time in too many cases. His new Yankees swing coach had him lower his leg kick. They would have left this alone if it wasn't causing a problem.
Again, with Hank here he is making adjustments based on the pitch he got. Did he get what he was looking for, where he was looking for it, and at the velocity he was expecting? I really can't tell from this limited video picture. It appears his tries to get on the pitch plane, but as is the case with all low pitches that is a difficult thing to do. Hence, why pitchers like to keep the ball down here. It is a difficult pitch to hit and do great damage with.
quote:However, he blocks any more forward movement with his front leg,
Coach Todd, you see this happening in this clip?
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=45&n=1&m=12&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9
Just saw your other question before I left.
My answer is yes. It still is. That being said I would tell a hitter that ideally it would be more advantageous in most cases to "stay connected" and not let the hands and/or arms away from the shoulders in order to support their hands with their body. The key word there being "ideally". As we all know those darn pitchers keep trying to screw up our ideal situation.
Now if a player makes those adjustments and gets the sweet spot of the bat on the ball and hits the ball out of the park or for extra bases, then who am I to come down on him for that?
My answer is yes. It still is. That being said I would tell a hitter that ideally it would be more advantageous in most cases to "stay connected" and not let the hands and/or arms away from the shoulders in order to support their hands with their body. The key word there being "ideally". As we all know those darn pitchers keep trying to screw up our ideal situation.
Now if a player makes those adjustments and gets the sweet spot of the bat on the ball and hits the ball out of the park or for extra bases, then who am I to come down on him for that?
Wanted to answer you again before I left.
On the Clemente clip, this answer is still yes with the caveat that in this case it is much more difficult with the pitch up and his shoulders leveling out which gives the maximum amount of linear movement short of it being purely forced.
There IS still forward movement here despite his stiff front leg because once again of the high pitch and level shoulders. Level shoulders equals pre-disposed linear movement. That is why his rear foot comes off the ground rather aggressively from the result of the linear movement and the blocking of the stiff front leg.
On the Clemente clip, this answer is still yes with the caveat that in this case it is much more difficult with the pitch up and his shoulders leveling out which gives the maximum amount of linear movement short of it being purely forced.
There IS still forward movement here despite his stiff front leg because once again of the high pitch and level shoulders. Level shoulders equals pre-disposed linear movement. That is why his rear foot comes off the ground rather aggressively from the result of the linear movement and the blocking of the stiff front leg.
So, your answer is yes and no....... 
No. Not NO. I conceded in the beginning that there is movement here for the reasons I've discussed. However, if he had not hit against a stiff front leg he would have fallen out of the front of the batter's box. The shear force of the linear movement because of the leveling of his shoulders from the pitch location is blocked from him lunging in the direction of the pitcher resulting in his rear foot coming off the ground aggressively.
I think you may be mistaking me for an ignorant parent who has seen one or two pictures and says everything is rotational and doesn't really know the difference and when linear and rotation mix. Where one starts and where one ends.
There are many factors to consider when analyzing a swing and with the thousands I have looked at in person, on video, and in still pictures I generally know what to look for and why certain things happen.
I am always analyzing for my players's sakes and trying to better my knowledge. I don't know it all but I am pretty well versed with many very successful players to show for it.
Unlike most coaches who preach that ALL PLAYERS should swing DOWN and shift their weight to their front foot on every pitch, I'm always trying to learn and better my understanding of what's happening and why. If you can help me with that I'm open to it. Are you open to anything I can help you with?
I've given you my personal contact information by private message. Call me if you like.
I think you may be mistaking me for an ignorant parent who has seen one or two pictures and says everything is rotational and doesn't really know the difference and when linear and rotation mix. Where one starts and where one ends.
There are many factors to consider when analyzing a swing and with the thousands I have looked at in person, on video, and in still pictures I generally know what to look for and why certain things happen.
I am always analyzing for my players's sakes and trying to better my knowledge. I don't know it all but I am pretty well versed with many very successful players to show for it.
Unlike most coaches who preach that ALL PLAYERS should swing DOWN and shift their weight to their front foot on every pitch, I'm always trying to learn and better my understanding of what's happening and why. If you can help me with that I'm open to it. Are you open to anything I can help you with?
I've given you my personal contact information by private message. Call me if you like.
quote:I think you may be mistaking me for an ignorant parent who has seen one or two pictures and says everything is rotational and doesn't really know the difference and when linear and rotation mix. Where one starts and where one ends.
No, Coach Todd, I haven't......Although, I don't believe we would agree on alot about hitting, you have presented yourself admirably.....
Thank you. Something tells me we might agree on more than you think.
I just came from a double header with high school age son. He was 3 for 5 today with three triples 2 walks and 3 RBIs. I can tell you this for sure. He is not a "pure" linear hitter that's for sure.
I look forward to more discussions with you.
I just came from a double header with high school age son. He was 3 for 5 today with three triples 2 walks and 3 RBIs. I can tell you this for sure. He is not a "pure" linear hitter that's for sure.
I look forward to more discussions with you.
