Teams that don't practice

Unfortunately, that seems to be the norm more & more these days, especially with kids on travel teams coming from all over a particular state or region.   One of the great things about getting into high school is a lot more regular practices in season at least

It certainly wouldn't hurt to look for another team that does have regular practices.  Ultimately, no matter how many team practices there are, players will need plenty of individual practice to fine tune their skills as well.

In my son's youth days, practice during the season was few and far between.  In rec. ball it was because of field availability and the hoops you had to go thru to schedule the available field.  Our league sucked so bad, you couldn't schedule more than 24 hours in advance, had to do it by email, and where at the mercy of the "scheduling coordinator."  So by the time you could announce practice it was only a few hours before.  Parents "loved" that. 

During travel ball, most days where filled with games.  We only had the field on those days.  So field availability was a problem as well.  We would be able to get out and practice and handful of times a season. 

3and2/Golfman: This is comforting to hear. I don't want him missing out but don't want to travel only to have him end up in a similar situation. The team will disintegrate after 8th grade, so it's just one more year. 

So, in high school I gather he will need to find a summer ball team to stay competitive? Do they practice more because it's summer, or should practice expectations be the same for this age group.

The good news is that he has a phenomenal private coach, and the "no practice" leaves plenty of time to schedule lessons with him.

My 12yo son practices about 1x a week with his school team and 2x week with his travel team. 

Great name, welcome to the site.  Practice frequency varies considerably.  With LL, I'd say the norm is to practice a couple times a week before season and then maybe once a week when games start but it's not terribly uncommon for practices to cease once games start, unfortunately.  With travel, there are certainly clubs that just go to events and don't practice but this is not the norm.  Often, in isolated areas such as what you are describing, the only options are volunteer dad coaches trying to patch together playing options for the boys.  It can have it's downfalls but still fun for the boys and worth while.

The good news is that playing games is really important for young aspiring players and it sounds like he is doing that.  He is also getting lessons and taking matters into his own hands, working on his game daily.  That's the kind of effort and mentality it takes.  And, pretty cool that you are able to be part of it.  Assuming that taking that hour plus drive will expose him to better competition and good instruction, you may have to consider that pretty soon.  That, too, is not uncommon.  We are in a relatively remote area as well and many local HS and pre-HS players will travel 2-5 hours to participate with decent travel organizations.  They won't necessarily participate fully in all training activity but will travel to all/most tourneys and some training events. 

Nibbles McGee posted:

Please help me figure out if this is the norm. My 13 yo son plays on a LL team and a travel team and neither team practices but once per month. He does get a private lesson 2-3 times a month and I've set up a net and tee in the backyard for him, so he pitches and hits on his own daily. My husband works too much to be able to train him and I can soft toss and hit him grounders, but that's the extent of my pathetic baseball abilities. He's getting too strong for me to safely work with him.

So my questions... How many practices per week does your son have for travel or LL and how much work is expected to be done on their own, especially if your child is a pitcher? Should we look for a different team next year? We live in a small, isolated town so our options are limited unless we want to go an hour plus to get to practice. He wants to play in high school and college. 

Just to clarify: the travel team does not collect a coaching fee. Coaches are unpaid dads.

It will be important for him to get practice on the larger field for high school but it is easy for me to say find another team as our options here are plentiful.  Talk to the pitching coach about any other teams in your area...or near enough for you to commit to practice.  Find out if there are any high school prep teams.  It sounds like he is getting extra work in with his coach which is excellent.  Good luck!

Let me ask you this, how many days a week is your son playing ball?  When my kid was at that age he was playing LL and travel as well.  3 LL games a week, 1 travel game on a week-night and 1 travel game on Saturday and 1 travel game on Sunday (we played part time travel and were affiliated with our local LL so games would not conflict).  In essence the kids were playing ball 6 days a week.  We would occasionally have practice but where were we going to schedule it?  Its not practical to expect kids to play 7 days a week without injuries or burnout.

Don't fret your baseball skills... there are options you can take to help him even as his strength and skills grow.    For batting practice, you can set up a cage with a pitching machine and stand behind an L screen for safety.  This will help him adjust to faster pitching than you can provide.  The right machine can also be set to throw curves.   The machine can also be used to simulate pop ups, ground balls etc.   In a small town, you can pay an instructor to come and give lessons if he is having trouble with a part of his game.  Also I found that pickle balls are a safe option if a net and L screen are not the path you want to take.   Also golf wiffle balls and a hit stick help with contact.   For pop ups, a tennis racket can be used... they make a similar device for baseball.  Just google Baseball Training Aids and you will see the selection.    Beware - read all reviews and get opinions in specific items.  If fields availability is an issue... any open space works.  Use your imagination.

He currently averages formal lesson/game/practice 2-3 times per week. Lots of tournaments coming up, so that number will increase by 1 day.

The LL bracket is so awful (regularly beating times by 10-20 point differential), I'm not sure I'd even call it playing. 

He really could use/do more, but you're right. I don't want him to burn out. 

Umpire: we have a huge backyard so I will definitely look at doing some of these training options with him. I love working with him and I'm very fit... I just never played any ball sports growing up so I'm scared! LOL

When my kids were in LL - Majors and below, IOW 12yo and below, by league rules baseball events were capped at 4 per week, and the problem families faced wasn't that there were too few practices (tho occasionally the manager of a bad team would give up on practices) but that hypercompetitive managers would stretch the rules by calling "informal" practices at the cage or in their own yards.  So anyway, most teams did meet 4 times per week for games and/or practices throughout the season.

At 13yo my older kid was on a LL Juniors team and that was totally different and sporadic as you describe.

At 13yo my younger kid played travel and his team would get together 2-3 times per week for practice, depending on field availability.  Travel teams can struggle mightily to find practice fields.

Nibbles...another hitting option is using weighted balls. They are filled with sand I believe and they are heavier than regular bb so they only will go so far. It helps to teach kids to swing thru contact with power. Probably helps to strengthen wrists and arms but I've no proof. Also, allows to use small spaces as balls will not travel but so far. You can do this from the side with soft toss and when you learn how far he is hitting them you can toss underhand from the front. If he has a super expensive bat, find a cheap bat of similar dimensions to use with the balls as to limit any possible to damage to high dollar bat. (total control balls is the name of them, lots of travel teams use them just prior to games 13U and under from my experience)

I also, use a deflated basketball sitting on a batting tee to mimic the same thing, just hitting into a screen.

Nibbles McGee posted:

Umpire: we have a huge backyard so I will definitely look at doing some of these training options with him. I love working with him and I'm very fit... I just never played any ball sports growing up so I'm scared! LOL

Easiest thing to do is get the total control hole balls.  They would be perfect for a good sized back yard.  You can soft toss, front toss, and even pitch them. 

http://www.totalcontrolsports....purchasing/buyit.htm

Hello, 

I see you are in Texas!!! Woo hoo went to high school there and my sis just moved back to the Austin area! Love Austin! I was in school in the DFW area. 

I am in California and to answer your question about summer ball. 

My youngest is a senior in high school and graduating this month ! Ugh! 

Anwyay I know all are different but we had summer ball with high school! Our coach is big on playing with the high school team during the summer. He doesn't mind if you play travel but wants communication as to when you would be there! My son actually was found during summer ball with high school his sophomore - junior summer. Was offered a scholarship. We play some pretty good teams in the summer. 

Sounds tho he's doing what seems to be the norm. 

We are lucky enough that my son has always wanted to play at the next level and he's going to be able to do that. 

Good luck! 

Nibbles McGee posted:

So my questions... How many practices per week does your son have for travel or LL and how much work is expected to be done on their own, especially if your child is a pitcher? Should we look for a different team next year? We live in a small, isolated town so our options are limited unless we want to go an hour plus to get to practice. He wants to play in high school and college. 

Just to clarify: the travel team does not collect a coaching fee. Coaches are unpaid dads.

Back when my son played LL and travel ball one year (he was 12-13 as I recall), each team had no more than two practices per week.   The LL team generally played two games per week (one weeknight game and one game on Saturday) while the travel team would have double headers or round robins on Sunday.  Once the LL season was over, then the travel team entered tournaments (usually once a month) and continued with doubleheaders and round robins through the summer and fall (LL was spring/early summer).  Between the two teams we found ourselves at a field (practice or games) 6-7 days per week.  After that season we told him pick one team (he chose the travel team).  It was just a bit too much to do two teams.

We are in a rural county so finding another team would mean traveling at least an hour or more.  The travel team he played for from 11U to 17U had the stated goal of preparing them for HS ball.  They did strive to win tournaments, but it wasn't a top priority.

FWIW - he was a started for JV (8th-9th grade) and a starter for the Varsity squad from his sophomore year on. After HS he went on to play for a JuCo (DII) and then a DII university.  He hung up his cleats a few years ago.

i wouldn't worry about college at this stage.  just work on his skills to qualify for the HS teams (JV & Varsity).  One step at a time.

High School practices 2-6 times a week 2-3 hours per day, depending on games that week.  Typically 2-4 games per week in season.  If they aren't playing they are practicing, they get Sunday off.

In GA a 13u rec team practices 1-2 times per week, one game on the weekend.

Travel ball practices 2-3 times per week, 3-6 games Friday -Sunday almost every weekend Feb/28-July 4th, depending on how they do in the tourney.

Pitching/hitting lesson 1-2 times a month, depending on how much their growing is screwing up their mechanics.

Part of our team travel ball fees ensures practice facilities. Even when it rains we have an indoor facility to get some cage work and or mound work in. 

What you are describing does NOT sound normal to me.

My son's travel team in middle school started hitting in January (if the coach could convince his wife, who coached the boys in basketball) to give him some time with the kids. They usually hit inside once or twice a week, then added throwing a couple of nights after basketball wore down. They usually practiced at least once or twice a week in addition to playing five or six games on a weekend.

For hs, they practice a couple of hours a night, five nights a week. Then coach gives son keys to the field later at night and on weekends so he and a few of the other dedicated ones can get in some extra time. His challenge right now is keeping the goofballs from showing up and getting in the way of the ones who really want to get work done.

When I played legion my first year of high school we only practiced 1 and that was on the very first day. We only participated in games in tournaments the rest of the year. Even though with one practice we beat some pretty good teams and placed 3rd in our regional with both of the other teams going deep in the state legion tourney.

It seems to be that way with every summer team/travel team I know anymore

Figure out a way to work and develop individual skills - team practices are what they are and you have no way to control that situation.

Driving an hour is no fun (we did it for years), but if your son can read/do homework (rather than nap) during the drive, that would be a productive use of his time.

Depending on your budget, hire a former college player to hit him ground balls, fly balls, long toss. Even if the former player isn't a true teacher, those fielding reps will help. Also, he should be hitting off the tee for a couple hundred swings per day - seven days a week. If he's an outfielder, after warm up, you can take a bucket of balls to the outfield, roll him ground balls and let him practice throwing in to various bases. 

Building up individual skills trumps any team practices  (just look at the time wasted in team practices).

Thank you everyone for your input. I've gone to the conclusion that practice frequency is highly variable. I think the time we would spend driving to another team would be better put to use with individual practice at home. And given that the team he is on now is so low cost, it leaves more money in the bank for lessons and training tools.

Goose Egg, I loved your idea about getting an older player to work with my son and I've already set something up with a high school sophomore for next week. My son is excited and so is the high school kid. His season just ended so it works out great. 

Thank you everyone for your friendly feedback and for making we feel so welcome on one of my first posts!

Goosegg posted:

Figure out a way to work and develop individual skills - team practices are what they are and you have no way to control that situation.

Driving an hour is no fun (we did it for years), but if your son can read/do homework (rather than nap) during the drive, that would be a productive use of his time.

Depending on your budget, hire a former college player to hit him ground balls, fly balls, long toss. Even if the former player isn't a true teacher, those fielding reps will help. Also, he should be hitting off the tee for a couple hundred swings per day - seven days a week. If he's an outfielder, after warm up, you can take a bucket of balls to the outfield, roll him ground balls and let him practice throwing in to various bases. 

Building up individual skills trumps any team practices  (just look at the time wasted in team practices).

I'd like to know how many folks that have been thru there players 13 Year Old days would agree with the bolded quote from Goosegg. Not to call out the Goose on it, just want to know if I am being too light on my own kid with his aspirations to play higher level ball. The 5 gallon bucket he goes thru maybe 3-4 days per week guessing has 60-75 balls or so.

1) The one bucket 3-4 days per week

or

2) Needs to be up around 200 swings 7 days per week

My 13 yo son's pitching coach has recommended the 200 swings daily as well. In reality, like yours, he is doing the 70 balls 3-4 times per week, more if I go out and soft toss. I will say most kids his age are doing nada on their own, so I think he's doing all right. The wireless speaker blasting all sorts of inappropriate music seems to make the task a lot more enjoyable for him. 

Met a 14 year old last month who plays on a national level team and he said he hits 400 balls a day. And watching him hit, I absolutely believe it.

It's a fine line between pushing too hard or not pushing enough. 

To me, practicing once/month during a Little League season is odd.  Though during my time in LL, we did lose a bunch of practice time slots to rain make-ups.  I found that the caliber of play tended to peak mid-season and degrade over the latter half of the season for this reason.

The frequency of practicing for a travel program depends on the age level, and then also on the type of program you're seeking.  Some travel programs defer to the local recreational league (LL, Babe Ruth or whatever) so they expect the kids to come to the games ready to play and they add practices to the family's burdens only rarely.  Other travel programs expect to be the player's primary, if not sole, playing outlet, and with that comes the expectation of team practices. 

One of the big up sides of travel ball is that you get to choose the program you like according to your own druthers, provided your son is deemed good enough to make the team.  So if you want more supervised practices, by all means move to a program that offers that.

Of course, if you have non-Dad or otherwise paid coaches, that often comes with a cost. 

If your son continues in travel ball, as he gets older he may join teams that draw players from far-flung locations.  These teams cannot really practice much and do require the players to find a way and to make time to prepare themselves, and then just show up on game days ready to go.  This is more the norm with recruiting-oriented programs for high school-age players.  But it seems like your son is much younger, so I think your concern about lack of quality instruction and repetitions is valid and you should follow your instincts here.

200 swings a day from a teenager seems highly unlikely to be productive for most, in my opinion.   If they are taking the correct swings they are going to be relatively tired after 50 swings.... for a vast majority of kids their mechanics are going to break down when they are tired and then they are just drilling bad habit after bad habit for 150 swings into muscle memory.

Not to mention the strain and injury potential of all that torque.  200 swings a day 7 days a week is a knee injury waiting to happen if the front leg front foot isn't 100% perfect.

75-100 very focused swings 5 days a week would be closer to what I recommend.   That is what my 14 year old son does, and I would say it is closer to 75 than 100.    With proper warmup, time in between BP rounds, time to check the video to make sure the mechanics are correct (or, more realistically for a 14 year old: improving) and assorted other moments such as picking up the balls that takes 45 minutes to an hour.

Unless a kid is going to be a DH you still have to devote time to fielding drills, throwing drills, team events/practices.   Not to mention:  homework!

Gmnk posted:

Goosegg posted:

Figure out a way to work and develop individual skills - team practices are what they are and you have no way to control that situation.

Driving an hour is no fun (we did it for years), but if your son can read/do homework (rather than nap) during the drive, that would be a productive use of his time.

Depending on your budget, hire a former college player to hit him ground balls, fly balls, long toss. Even if the former player isn't a true teacher, those fielding reps will help. Also, he should be hitting off the tee for a couple hundred swings per day - seven days a week. If he's an outfielder, after warm up, you can take a bucket of balls to the outfield, roll him ground balls and let him practice throwing in to various bases. 

Building up individual skills trumps any team practices  (just look at the time wasted in team practices).

I'd like to know how many folks that have been thru there players 13 Year Old days would agree with the bolded quote from Goosegg. Not to call out the Goose on it, just want to know if I am being too light on my own kid with his aspirations to play higher level ball. The 5 gallon bucket he goes thru maybe 3-4 days per week guessing has 60-75 balls or so.

1) The one bucket 3-4 days per week

or

2) Needs to be up around 200 swings 7 days per week

 

One bucket was never enough for son.  He didn't get after it every day but when he did, he went hard.  When I'd throw to him in the cage, we always had the same argument.  After two or three buckets, if I saw fatigue, I would tell him that more would do no good.  I rarely won that argument.

The same applies to the other kids that have come thru my HS program and continued on.  Seems to be the way the stubbornly competitive kids and/or the passionate kids are wired.  It becomes fairly easy to predict which kids will stick at the next level.  Always "one more bucket" or "ten more good ones".

Personally, I think something in between would be optimal but it never seems to work that way.  

My son was a failure as a hitter. He didn't hit in t-ball, Pinto - at any level. But he did his swings every morning for 15 minutes and every evening for 15 minutes from the time he got serious hitting lessons from the local NAIA asst coach (now HC Arizona) from age 11. 

That coach was who set up his regime. (And, yes, swings which are not done properly are worse than nonproductive; and a kid who is forced to do it won't do it correctly.) 

I looked at swing time (as we called it) fondly - I got to soft toss and watch (often loading the tee) and we got to talk.  He knew he wasn't a good hitter, but he did all he could to improve - and he knew he left nothing to chance or luck. When he stopped hitting lessons (end of 11th) it was with the knowledge that he just didn't have what it took to be a great hitter. (He did hit well over .400 in HS; in a bad, bad league.)

There is no correct number of swings (or any other drill); the variables are many - the player's desire (not stated, but actual work), conditioning, goals, other commitments, etc. But I can say this for anyone trying to make it to college ball: someone, somewhere, there is a player your age working harder, taking more reps, and trying to take that slot in college.

For parents going through this for the first time, ignore what the other kids are doing, ignore the urban myths, legends and lies. You can only control what you can control and that includes the quantity and quality of work you put in - recognizing that there are no short cuts, the improvements are incremental and not even linear (e.g., growth spurt upsets the apple cart).

But, NOTHING substitutes for hard work over long periods of time - and if you are doing this for the first time and have long term playing aspirations, you can't even imagine how fast the game gets, how much work it takes just to stay even with your hard working peers, much less gain on them.

A player can't control his coaches, his fielders missing pop ups, or the weather; but the player has absolute control over how hard he works - and whether he can answer the question when he finally hangs up his cleats: Did I do all I could to reach my goal (whatever that goal was: HS, college, whatever)? An answer of "no" represents failure.

From what I remember Chase Utley has said 100 balls off a tee a day, everyday. Start there, after a month it will probably look like a different kid in not only how he handles the bat, but swings it, holds it, etc. That bat will become an extension of his arms as he gets more comfortable with it in hands. I too would worry about fatigue and more "bad" swings than good. Obviously, good reps are good-bad reps are bad. Don't assume that the work they do on their own is the quality it needs to be, kids need freedom to work, but also oversight and an understanding that reinforcing bad habits makes improvement that much more difficult. Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 rep stuff.

3and2Fastball posted:

200 swings a day from a teenager seems highly unlikely to be productive for most, in my opinion.   If they are taking the correct swings they are going to be relatively tired after 50 swings.... for a vast majority of kids their mechanics are going to break down when they are tired and then they are just drilling bad habit after bad habit for 150 swings into muscle memory.

Not to mention the strain and injury potential of all that torque.  200 swings a day 7 days a week is a knee injury waiting to happen if the front leg front foot isn't 100% perfect.

75-100 very focused swings 5 days a week would be closer to what I recommend.   That is what my 14 year old son does, and I would say it is closer to 75 than 100.    With proper warmup, time in between BP rounds, time to check the video to make sure the mechanics are correct (or, more realistically for a 14 year old: improving) and assorted other moments such as picking up the balls that takes 45 minutes to an hour.

Unless a kid is going to be a DH you still have to devote time to fielding drills, throwing drills, team events/practices.   Not to mention:  homework!

I'm with 3 and 2 for the most part.  Swinging to just reach a number might not be productive.  Bad practice swings don't do anything for you.  If you have to tell them to hit, not productive either. But each kid is different.

It's all about the quality of the practice. You can work really hard with the best of intentions and only reinforce bad habits and improper mechanics. When kids get tired they start creating bad habits. It's no different than losing your form in the weight room when you are trying to lift more weight than you are capable of lifting with proper form.

With hitting I believe everything incorporated in being a good hitter must be part of the training process no matter what drill you are doing or what you are working on. Hitting is about approach, timing, swing path, the entire process. It doesn't matter if your on a T, soft toss, live arm cage, live arm L screen on field, or hitting off pitchers.

If your working on a T the hitter should be starting with stance, approach, timing, etc. When I work with a kid on a T I tell him to stare down the cage at the imaginary pitcher. Watch the ball come out of his hand and track it to the T. Put him in a count and move the T constantly. Inside, outside, up and down. Work on timing, tracking, load, launch, etc. I don't believe it does any good to stand there and simply hit balls off a T without incorporating the entire process. Who stands in the box, looks straight down the entire time and then swings?

Each swing should be critiqued. 30 swings off a T done properly is fine. Move to soft toss and do the same thing. Move to live arm in the cage and do the same thing. Go to the field and take that with you for instant feed back off of Live arm BP.

It's about the quality of the work not the sheer number of swings. You must be on time in order to be a quality hitter. You must be able to recognize and track pitches properly. A quality hitter will produce a quality swing over and over and over in BP. If you can't do that you certainly won't often enough vs an actual pitcher in game situations. Ask the player "What did you do there?" "Now what did you feel on that one?" "Tell me about that swing." "Can you tell me why you didn't barrel that pitch?" "Why do you think you rolled over that pitch?" Coaching and training like that takes time. It's not about seeing how many swings you can get in so you can say you worked hard today. It's about learning and reproducing the right swing and approach over and over and over.

Working on the actual swing without incorporating the other ingredients that allow you to be a quality hitter is not productive in my opinion. Start with the stance, approach every swing. Move into the load, timing, tracking all the way through the swing process on every swing. Yes that will reduce the amount of swings. Yes it will take more time. Yes a critique of the swing will take time. But quality will trump quantity every day of the week. A player should be able to tell you "I rolled over that one. Because I __________________ ." "I hooked around that pitch because I _______________ . " "I missed that pitch because _________________ ." "I didn't barrel that one up coach because ______________ ." "I feel like I am ____________ ." They should know their swing and what they are and are not doing. They should know their approach. And as a coach "Dad" you should as well. And you can't coach a player with quantity as the prerequisite for success. Its all about the quality. Experience is good if the player understands the experience. If he has no idea why he is failing or what he did wrong how can he fix it by doing the same thing over and over? What happens far too often is he gets back to work even harder doing what is causing him to fail in the first place.

It's about the quality of the coaching and the quality of the instruction. Not the quantity of reps. Some of the best hitting coaches in baseball are Dad's who understand this. And I mean some of the very best. They didn't learn how to hit from the HS or College Coach or ML Instructor's. If they couldn't hit when they got to HS they would not have been studs HS. If they couldn't hit when they got to college they wouldn't have ever been there in the first place. Learn for yourself so you can teach them yourself. There is no better coach than Dad at the pre HS years. Coaches that have a clue understand this. It doesn't take that much effort to learn the core ingredients that you need to teach a youth player to have success at the plate. Watch and learn from his Coaches and Instructor's. Then take it to a Dad level one on one.

Yes that Coach or instructor isn't going to have the time for each player like I talked about at the youth level. But you can. Just my opinion. Long post. But I am serious the some of the best hitting instructors are Dad's that take that time. I could name numerous Dad's of outstanding players who WERE there hitting coaches. Several in the ML right now. And the vast majority of the outstanding HS hitters simply were taught by Dad. Those lucky enough to have a great youth coach who Coaches and Instructs by quality over quantity - thank him.