Thanks PGStaff his 60 time has never been better

RonBon,

 

You don't know how happy it made me to read your post.  When writing that thing about running I said I would be happy if just one kid got something out of it.  Thanks to you and the hard work by your son it makes it all worthwhile.

 

I don't do the running stuff anymore.  There is nothing to sell to anyone.  But what your son did is a gigantic reward to me. More importantly it makes him a much better prospect. Congratulations!

Your right-a video sure would be nice. 

Great stuff, printed it out for my son. He has some showcases coming up, and will put this to good use.

 

 

This one? Do You Want To Run Faster?

Great program. I didn't find this one but a similar one on a baseball site. Ran hills, focused on starts, keeping arms in line instead of across chest and staying low the first 20. I was already in good shape. Lowered time from 7.5 to 7.0 just on technique. 

That's awesome!!! That's some fast times.

Yes 2016Dad that is the article.

 

I will add that we were doing some of it wrong initially and after watching a lot of CWS games we realized our mistake.

 

We didn't understand how they wanted the hands and arms positioning so we did our best. He still saw his time drop and by the time we realized our mistake and tried the new position he felt the one he had come up with was more comfortable.

 

I think, for him, the most important things were his weight distribution, starting in a lower position, getting his hips turned and back leg "through", and leading with his shoulders.

 

We did his 10 yard practice starts on the football field and used one of the soccer markings that was perfectly placed at the goal line and ran almost the whole ten yards. He would start with this line basically running between his feet so that when he turned and brought his back leg through he could tell if he was offline. He wasn't tight roping the line, just using it to judge his alignment.

 

Just doing the 10 yard starts is an awesome idea because he can rattle off a ton of those in a row and not get worn out. We timed everyone of them and realized he got faster and faster as he worked. So we started working on a warm up routine that would produce the best times earlier.

 

RonBon,

   Sending you a PM; could you possibly provide the warm up routine you use? All help appreciated - we've got a couple of showcases coming up over this summer.

Thanks for the info PG!  Just brought my 2018 up to the field to work on this. Been telling him for weeks to make some changes but of course dad doesn't know anything. Went to the field and told him you do it your way and I'll time you. Then we worked for about 15 minutes on the the starting moves from the article. Timed him again. 1/2 second difference, just from 15 minutes of focus. Opened his eyes!  Maybe, just maybe he'll realize he doesn't know it all just yet!

I completely agree that players should do whatever they can to maximize their exposure and decrease their 60 times. It is to their benefit.

 

But here's the rub... does it make them a better player? Are they actually faster from the box to first or from the box to second? Where it really matters. I'm certain that some really fast righties with a big follow through aren't that fast from 1st to home because of their swing and how it takes them away from first before they get moving. Also, some really fast outfielders (that I've seen personally) are slow to read the ball and have late breaks and I won't even comment on their arms. In both of the examples I've described, slower players are faster out of the box to first and are much more effective outfielders.

 

I know a kid who has made several outstanding full speed lay out diving catches. He's a legit D1 football prospect who ran a 4.35 electronically timed 40 at a national football combine. However, the reason he has made so many great catches, is that he misreads the ball and breaks in and then has to turn tail and turn on the jets and dive. He's really amazing to watch, but slower outfielders would have made a correct read, tracked the ball and caught it without the fanfare.

 

Stafford,

 

Good points!  The start would have less impact H-1 than it would on SB time or 60 time.  

But other technique improvement (form, stride length, etc.) would help most any player in many ways, including H-1.

 

H-1 times are critical, but also can be very misleading, As you mentioned, so much depends on the swing and type of hitter.  Perhaps a better time is the SB time.  And that definitely is determined by the start.

 

there are several other components involved in becoming a better runner.  Running form, even strength.  However, for every tenth a player can cut out of the last 50 yards, he can cut a tenth out of the first 10 yards (the start). In addition, the accurate start puts him on a path that allows him to cut out more time in the final 50 yards.

 

This all relates to the stolen base time as well.

 

And to answer the question, absolutely yes!  Every time a player improves in any area of the game, he becomes a better player.  Of course that doesn't mean he becomes a good player.  The good player has to have more going for him than just running ability.  When the good player, improves as a runner, he also becomes a better and more valuable player.  

 

Every 2 tenths is equal to approximately one stride.  One full stride is a gigantic advantage in baseball Both defensively and offensively.  The player you describe would not make those plays if it weren't for his speed.  If he learns to do the routes better, the speed just plays up that much more.  He will get to balls that the slower guy can't.

PG: I  agree with your assessment on SB time. That is a more equitable way of looking at things. But I tend to agree with "Moneyball" when it comes to stolen bases. I like to see a guy get a decent lead and stay there. It just opens up the defense so much. But, I"m digressing into strategy instead of player projection. But it goes to my philosophy that a slow hitter is more valuable than a fast athlete. I would rather have a plodder on 1st than a burner heading back to the bench after an at bat. However, I'm obviously wrong in that assessment since the first thing at every camp I've every been to is the 60.

 

Really though, the 60 and the emphasis on speed is a pet peeve of mine. I really should just ignore any post on the subject. But, I can't help myself.

I also think there's a distinction between "game fast" and running a fast 60. Probably most guys with fast 60's are also game fast, but I'm not sure all game fast guys necessarily run great 60's.  Don't know if it's a matter of adrenaline or what but my son is really fast on the bases and in the OF.  His 60 times are good but not blazing.  Somehow live game action seems to get him to kick in an extra gear.

SluggerDad,

 

You will get no argument from me.  I agree completely.  

Resurrecting and old thread in order to seek advice from those who have read (or wrote) the above article.  As I posted in another thread, I timed my son this weekend and he is at/around 7.00.  We read the article after running and discovered that he is pushing off with his left foot vs. right foot.  If I am reading this article correctly, he should be pushing off with his right foot (front foot) at the start.  It sounded odd to me and my son.  Did anyone else have a son that pushed off with their back foot on the start and if so did you change it to the front foot after reading the article.  What was the outcome of the change.

2016 has a showcase this Sunday and we intend to run the 60 one or two more times this week.  Just not sure if he should make a change with 6 days to go.  Any thoughts?

bballdad,

 

Remember that the technique needs to be practiced and perfected.  It is not simply changing the foot you push off.  If the other things involved don't happen correctly it won't matter which foot you push off of.

 

Here is something that might be a more immediate help.  Have your son visualize running in a tunnel.  Right from his very first move to the finish line.  The most difficult part will be his very first stride.  This is where the most time wasted.  If that very first crossover is  off even a little (shoulders not square to the target), he will be costing himself some time.   Anytime a runner is off line, he needs to make an adjustment over the next few strides.  It is this adjustment that costs time.  Athletes don't always know they are adjusting, they do it automatically.  However, those adjustments are taking time.

 

We used to blindfold runners once they were in the starting position.  Some would take off and run close to directly at the target.  Some would run in a path that would miss the target by 100 feet or more.  Obviously this would create a lot of adjustment.

 

Also, ask your son how hard he is running.  Many don't understand that they run TOO hard.  The fastest men on earth are not the hardest runners.  In fact, it's usually the slowest that run the hardest.  Running hard as you can is similar to throwing a baseball or swinging a bat as hard as you can.  It creates tightness and tightness slows things down.  Think fast or quick, don't think powerful.  

 

Anyway, good luck to your son.  

 

BTW, Glad you bumped this thread up.  A long time ago I came to the conclusion that the most important time in baseball wasn't the 60 or the 40 or even 30 yards.  We always stayed with the 60 because that was the standard.  Personally I believe the most important time for evaluating baseball speed would be 10 yards.  Do I want the shortstop that runs the fastest 60 or the one that runs the fastest 10?  Actually I would want the fastest 10 yard runner at every position on the field.  In horse racing you might want the strongest closer (finisher) In baseball I would take the early speed always.

 

So after many years, we have decided to use laser equipment to time the first 10 yards as well as the 60 time at our events. This is going to give us some very valuable information.  I actually believe MLB clubs will start paying very close attention to these 10 yard times as they start seeing the results.  This will help bridge the gap between running speed and game speed.  Between quickness and instincts and sprinter speed. We already have known for many years that the fastest 60 runners are not always the quickest starters.  And some of the 7+ 60 guys are really quick in 10 yards.  Of course when a fast 60 times goes with a fast 10 time, you have the best baseball speed of all.

 

We actually tried this with stop watch at 10 yards.  Problem is that it is easy to have a tenth or so difference from one watch to another in 60 yards.  That difference is not all that great in a 60 time.  However that same tenth of a second is a very critical big difference in 10 yards.  So we have to use laser timing rather than stop watch for more consistency and accuracy.

Thanks PGStaff.  I agree that it needs to be practiced and perfected. We also filmed him running, particularly his start as well as the whole sprint.  We focused on being strait to the target and staying low during the first 10-30 yards.  When we run again on Wed/Thursday I intended to have him practice his start with short sprints then finish with a full 60.  I'll tell him to invision being in a tunnel like you mentioned. 

Not too sure we'll mess with the front vs. back foot too much until after the showcase this weekend.  He's comfortable and dancing around 7.00 at this point.  However, he wants to be consistany below that.

That post from PG staff on the 10 yards is very interesting. I'll tell my experience. 2 weeks ago I went to evaluate a player that I help on hitting. He has a great swing and he mentions that he runs a 6.8 sec 60 and throws 87 from short stop. I was eager to confirm his speed and arm velo. So I went to his HS on Sunday and setup my electronic laser to measure the 40 yard. I didn't have the cable length to do the 60. So I was expecting him to run a sub 5.0 (40 yards) but really looking for 4.8 if he wants to run a sub 7 60 yard. Before measuring the 40 I put the laser at 10 yards and put my son and the player to run 10 yards. My son ran the 1st one in 1.5 sec and the player ran 1.65 sec. They both ran a second time and son did a 1.45 and the player a 1.62.

 

The thing is that my son has never run a sub 7.00 sec 60 yard. So I was doubting that this player could run a sub 7 sec 60 as he claimed. So I go and setup the laser at 40 yards. They both ran twice and to my surprise my son fastest 40 yard was 5.1 sec and the player did a 4.79!! I was in shock of this. After seen the 10 yards results I would never thought this player could run a sub 5.0 in 40 yards and faster than my son 5.1 sec. So my son was much faster on the 10 but less faster on the 40 yards than the other player. My son is a corner infielder and based on the defense he has an extremely quick first couple of steps and can get and dive to balls in a very explosive manner. I was always wondering why he never can run a sub 7 60 but can move so quickly in the corners as an infielder. Now I understand. This other player is faster at 40 and 60 yards but slower at 10 yards. By the way this other player ran a 6.89 at a showcase last Thursday. My son best 60 is 7.17.

 

The equipment I use is the same used at the NFL combine and both players rested the same time between sprints. By the way they are both 17 years old. The player best throw was measured at 85 with a Stalker. So this player was very close on his own assessment.
Question for PG, when are you guys implementing the 10 yards?