Coach May,
You are right. The rule I stated for the DR is in the National Junior League on Long Island. It is a league many players use as a second team to work on skills. They use the last out to DR to avoid having the fastest runner always being inserted.
windmill
In back yard wiffle ball there is no base running. Hits are derermined by where they land.
single = ground ball
double = lands between mound and oak tree
tripple= lands between oak tree and fence
HR = over fence
Attended a showcase this week and took along my stop watch for fun. What I saw out of 51 players was 3 below 7 6.7, 6.8, 6.9 and most around the 7.6-7.7. None over 8 as they were running in pairs and I timed the faster of the group. Most all pairs finished very close together, even when one was out front at the 30 mark the other usually made up the gap by the finish. Only on one pair looked like a mismatch and that was the 6.9 paired with an average runner.
My son went to showcase last week at Kentucky. The coach stated that the 60 was not important to him and most college coaches but that home to first was. He went on to say that the pro scouts were more interested in the 60. He said all this while three pro scouts were standing close to him.
I thought that I would add this to the discussion.
And to add the pro scouts stuck around the pitchers most of the day until it came to the hitting part of the showcase.
I thought that I would add this to the discussion.
And to add the pro scouts stuck around the pitchers most of the day until it came to the hitting part of the showcase.
Tasmit,
The pro scouts did not watch the sixty because the times are published before the hitting. You can be sure they watched the kids with the top times hit very closely.
The pro scouts did not watch the sixty because the times are published before the hitting. You can be sure they watched the kids with the top times hit very closely.
Limom, Go back and read BBScout's post. I also happened to speak with a local scout (there are quite a few in my area) with what has been posted here. He said almost the identical thing to what BB posted.
I think you need to open your mind. We're all here to learn. You don't seem very open to other people's experience or knowledge.
I think you need to open your mind. We're all here to learn. You don't seem very open to other people's experience or knowledge.
limom
Where you there in Kentucky????
Do you know for a fact if they posted the times????
Where you there in Kentucky????
Do you know for a fact if they posted the times????
quote:
60 yard time with a 30 split time will tell all. If a kid can run a quick sixty you can be bet his base running skills will be good. Getting a good jump on a hit ball is another story.
Limom - You can be the fastest player on the planet and not have baserunning insticts and you will be an out more times than not. I am not sure how anyone that understands the game could say that if you have speed you are a good baserunner. I have been around this game over 30 years as a player and a coach and if I know that a player is fast and does not have a clue on the bases, well to say the least I will take advantage of that and turn that weakness into an out every time.
Let me get this straight....I have a fast 60 yard dash, therefore my baserunning skills are good...hmmmm?
A fast player can be taught to run the bases smart...some learn some dont. To say that because he has a fast 60 it means his baserunning skills are good...well your wrong!
YOUR NOT EVEN CLOSE ON THAT OBSERVATION! NOT EVEN CLOSE.
I am curious as to how Limom can determine who is a scout and who is not a scout. For sure they are there to review the kids abilities and do not want anyone to know they are there. They want to be left alone to do their job.
I have sat with Coach Slater (Auburn), Coach Laval (LSU), Coach Thomas (LSU), Coach Butler (ALA), at events and picked their brains on what they are looking for and they all say....they are looking for "Players"...kids that can play. When I asked them how important all of these times and junk were they all said....if the player is fast I can see it, if he can hit I can see it, if he can throw I can see it, they dont need numbers to tell them if a player has skills.
I have sat with Coach Slater (Auburn), Coach Laval (LSU), Coach Thomas (LSU), Coach Butler (ALA), at events and picked their brains on what they are looking for and they all say....they are looking for "Players"...kids that can play. When I asked them how important all of these times and junk were they all said....if the player is fast I can see it, if he can hit I can see it, if he can throw I can see it, they dont need numbers to tell them if a player has skills.
TFusa20
Amen to that !!!!!
Some of the best "players" around do not shine in drills._They have to be seen in "gametime" !!!
Amen to that !!!!!
Some of the best "players" around do not shine in drills._They have to be seen in "gametime" !!!
So now I learned two things from reading the posts on this thread. First, if you are fast, then you can't hit. You know, you gotta get on first to use that speed...And second, fast kids lack instincts.
Take a look at one of the above posts to see how few kids run a sub 7.0 60. I think that is why people get so upset, because their sons lack speed. But that kid with the great 60 speed gets to start in CF, at least when Dad's not coaching.
tr-
Of course, I was in Kentucky. I am everywhere...
Take a look at one of the above posts to see how few kids run a sub 7.0 60. I think that is why people get so upset, because their sons lack speed. But that kid with the great 60 speed gets to start in CF, at least when Dad's not coaching.
tr-
Of course, I was in Kentucky. I am everywhere...
limom...please will you show me where I said anything about hitting or that fast kids lack instints...my topic was on baserunning.
You said
I respectfully disagreed and explained why. Do you always talk in circles with no apparent reasoning. I surely hope your son does not know you are embarassing him on this board with rediculous observations.
Last I checked you can't steal first base.
This is crazy!
You said
quote:
60 yard time with a 30 split time will tell all. If a kid can run a quick sixty you can be bet his base running skills will be good. Getting a good jump on a hit ball is another story.
I respectfully disagreed and explained why. Do you always talk in circles with no apparent reasoning. I surely hope your son does not know you are embarassing him on this board with rediculous observations.
Last I checked you can't steal first base.
This is crazy!
tfusa-
Who said anything about stealing first base? That is implying that if you are fast, then you can't hit.
Now, let's get back to stealing 1st base. A routine grounder that a burner beats out for a hit is, in essence, a steal of first base. This brings me to my next thread, "Can you steal first base?"
P.S. Leave my son out of this. He is only 7, a 2015 player and currently runs a 13.7 60.
Who said anything about stealing first base? That is implying that if you are fast, then you can't hit.
Now, let's get back to stealing 1st base. A routine grounder that a burner beats out for a hit is, in essence, a steal of first base. This brings me to my next thread, "Can you steal first base?"
P.S. Leave my son out of this. He is only 7, a 2015 player and currently runs a 13.7 60.
I agree with much that is being said here. However, I think it’s a bit misleading to any young player or his parents who might read this. It might be true that some clubs might not be as interested in 60 times as other clubs, but those 60 times are still the standard for many of the MLB clubs.
I can say in all certainty that with most clubs running grades relate to the 60 and home to 1st times. I’ve had way too many college coaches ask us for 60 times to think they don’t care about them. Also, the 60 may not be the only thing that shows athletic ability, but it sure is one of the things. The fastest 60 runners we’ve ever seen all had outstanding athletic ability. And yes, we’ve seen subpar 60 runners who were outstanding athletes, too.
The so called “numbers” are not the only thing that’s important, but they sure are vitally important when scouting and grading a player. Until everyone who scouts or grades players starts throwing away their stop watches and radar guns, the numbers will always be important. H-1 times, 60 times, 30 times, 40 times, SB times, everything is important. The very best baserunners are “FAST” and they are “SMART”, not just one or the other.
A good suggestion to any young man who can really play the game is to work hard to improve the numbers in order to improve the grade a scout might give you. This game is still very much a “tools” thing. Yes, you can run a 6.3 60 and be a bad baserunner. Also, you can be the smartest baserunner on earth, yet not be “fast” enough to play at the highest levels at certain positions.
Being smart does not by itself get you a stolen base or allow you to score from 1st base on a double, at the highest level. The “smartest” thing a young player can do is to work hard to improve his running ability and lower his running times.
Many players who have played at the highest level will say the biggest difference is the speed of the game. This is not to be confused with how fast everyone can run. It has to do with the entire game. At the highest level infielders pick it up and get it to first base faster. They turn the double play faster. Most players throw “faster”, swing the bat “faster”, pitchers get it to the plate and catchers get it to 2B "faster", etc. etc.
The best thing about baseball is that a player can be a below average runner and if he can really hit, he might play in the Big Leagues. A player can have a below average arm and if he can really hit he might play in the Big Leagues. Now days, hitting is the most important tool (IMO). However all other tools are all very important. Speed is very important and young players should work hard to improve in this area rather than argue about it’s value.
Chris Lubanski, BJ Upton, Lastings Milledge, Ryan Harvey, etc would not have been drafted as high as they were if they ran below average 60s. The top two ranked high school players right now (most would agree) are Justin Upton and Cameron Maybin. Upton grades out 80 in the 60, Maybin is a 70. Yes, they have other plus tools, but if they were both below average runners, they wouldn’t be the same prospects that they now are.
My suggestion (take it for what it’s worth) Rather than argue about the system… Join it! Do everything possible to improve the tools! All the tools! There are a ton of very smart players who fill the stands or coach the game. The majority of those on the field have the "tools". There are players who have the tools and don't play the game real well. And there are those that have the tools, have the brains and have everything it takes. These are the ones on television every night.
This is not meant to argue anything. Call it my opinion if you like. I just don't want people getting the impression that having a weak arm or running slow is equal (to scouts and college coaches) as long as you know where your throwing the ball and know how to run the bases. It's all important, you decide what's most important!
I can say in all certainty that with most clubs running grades relate to the 60 and home to 1st times. I’ve had way too many college coaches ask us for 60 times to think they don’t care about them. Also, the 60 may not be the only thing that shows athletic ability, but it sure is one of the things. The fastest 60 runners we’ve ever seen all had outstanding athletic ability. And yes, we’ve seen subpar 60 runners who were outstanding athletes, too.
The so called “numbers” are not the only thing that’s important, but they sure are vitally important when scouting and grading a player. Until everyone who scouts or grades players starts throwing away their stop watches and radar guns, the numbers will always be important. H-1 times, 60 times, 30 times, 40 times, SB times, everything is important. The very best baserunners are “FAST” and they are “SMART”, not just one or the other.
A good suggestion to any young man who can really play the game is to work hard to improve the numbers in order to improve the grade a scout might give you. This game is still very much a “tools” thing. Yes, you can run a 6.3 60 and be a bad baserunner. Also, you can be the smartest baserunner on earth, yet not be “fast” enough to play at the highest levels at certain positions.
Being smart does not by itself get you a stolen base or allow you to score from 1st base on a double, at the highest level. The “smartest” thing a young player can do is to work hard to improve his running ability and lower his running times.
Many players who have played at the highest level will say the biggest difference is the speed of the game. This is not to be confused with how fast everyone can run. It has to do with the entire game. At the highest level infielders pick it up and get it to first base faster. They turn the double play faster. Most players throw “faster”, swing the bat “faster”, pitchers get it to the plate and catchers get it to 2B "faster", etc. etc.
The best thing about baseball is that a player can be a below average runner and if he can really hit, he might play in the Big Leagues. A player can have a below average arm and if he can really hit he might play in the Big Leagues. Now days, hitting is the most important tool (IMO). However all other tools are all very important. Speed is very important and young players should work hard to improve in this area rather than argue about it’s value.
Chris Lubanski, BJ Upton, Lastings Milledge, Ryan Harvey, etc would not have been drafted as high as they were if they ran below average 60s. The top two ranked high school players right now (most would agree) are Justin Upton and Cameron Maybin. Upton grades out 80 in the 60, Maybin is a 70. Yes, they have other plus tools, but if they were both below average runners, they wouldn’t be the same prospects that they now are.
My suggestion (take it for what it’s worth) Rather than argue about the system… Join it! Do everything possible to improve the tools! All the tools! There are a ton of very smart players who fill the stands or coach the game. The majority of those on the field have the "tools". There are players who have the tools and don't play the game real well. And there are those that have the tools, have the brains and have everything it takes. These are the ones on television every night.
This is not meant to argue anything. Call it my opinion if you like. I just don't want people getting the impression that having a weak arm or running slow is equal (to scouts and college coaches) as long as you know where your throwing the ball and know how to run the bases. It's all important, you decide what's most important!
That was a very good post Jerry. Now we have to decide what "athletic" is in baseball. 
I start arguements with other scouts all the time.......they will say that basketball players are athletic and I will say Why? I saw the greatest basketball player of all time play baseball and he threw like a non athlete and he hit like a non athlete and he fielded like a below average athlete. He ran like an athlete. Did that make him an athlete? I saw Griffey when he was 17 and he ran, hit, threw and fielded like an athlete.
I start arguements with other scouts all the time.......they will say that basketball players are athletic and I will say Why? I saw the greatest basketball player of all time play baseball and he threw like a non athlete and he hit like a non athlete and he fielded like a below average athlete. He ran like an athlete. Did that make him an athlete? I saw Griffey when he was 17 and he ran, hit, threw and fielded like an athlete.
PGStaff-
That was the best post I ever read. Everyone knows that hitting is the most important tool and when combined with other top tools, you then have a player.
Which PG showcase would be best for my '06 to attend?
That was the best post I ever read. Everyone knows that hitting is the most important tool and when combined with other top tools, you then have a player.
Which PG showcase would be best for my '06 to attend?
PG
Have to agree with you---
There are not many 5 tool players in the bigs
A few examples:
Bernie Williams--great speed poor base runner-- also not quite a centerfielders arm-- still and excellent all around player
Ichiro-- does it all except hit for power
Look at the two gentlemen who were voted into the HOF yesterday-- Boggs and Sandberg--by no stretch of the imagination are they 5 tool players.
I also agree that the college coaches want the 60's-- for a frame of reference--it is all part of the evaluation , like the arm strength--
BBScout
The term athletic is a tough one to put definition to.
I am not sure there is a pure definition or example--- as you point out the best basketball player looked atheltic and agile on a court but on the baseball field he did not---does that make him non athletic ???
Interesting topic--- we should take it to another thread of its own
Have to agree with you---
There are not many 5 tool players in the bigs
A few examples:
Bernie Williams--great speed poor base runner-- also not quite a centerfielders arm-- still and excellent all around player
Ichiro-- does it all except hit for power
Look at the two gentlemen who were voted into the HOF yesterday-- Boggs and Sandberg--by no stretch of the imagination are they 5 tool players.
I also agree that the college coaches want the 60's-- for a frame of reference--it is all part of the evaluation , like the arm strength--
BBScout
The term athletic is a tough one to put definition to.
I am not sure there is a pure definition or example--- as you point out the best basketball player looked atheltic and agile on a court but on the baseball field he did not---does that make him non athletic ???
Interesting topic--- we should take it to another thread of its own
limom84,
You've come a long way from "Hitting is Overrated".
quote:
Everyone knows that hitting is the most important tool and when combined with other top tools, you then have a player.
You've come a long way from "Hitting is Overrated".
tr-
Define "frame of reference in the 60"? I don't think it means, yeah, you're slow, we want you...
I think it means this kid runs a 6.7, we've got to have him, but I'll ask those scouts that I hang with this coming weekend.
Define "frame of reference in the 60"? I don't think it means, yeah, you're slow, we want you...
I think it means this kid runs a 6.7, we've got to have him, but I'll ask those scouts that I hang with this coming weekend.
limom--
It is simply a means of comparison between players
Yea--go ask them-- they have really helped you so far!!!!
You are better off discussing with Coach May--- he can teach you a few things!
One last thing--I don't have an oak tree in my backyard--how do I play wiffle ball?
It is simply a means of comparison between players
Yea--go ask them-- they have really helped you so far!!!!
You are better off discussing with Coach May--- he can teach you a few things!
One last thing--I don't have an oak tree in my backyard--how do I play wiffle ball?
tr-
They haven't helped me yet, signing period is not till late '05.
Coach May? I thought he was a HS coach. I need help from a college coach or a pro scout or a minor league ball player or the fine folks at Perfect Game.
As for your wiffle ball game, no triples-only singles, doubles and homeruns.
They haven't helped me yet, signing period is not till late '05.
Coach May? I thought he was a HS coach. I need help from a college coach or a pro scout or a minor league ball player or the fine folks at Perfect Game.
As for your wiffle ball game, no triples-only singles, doubles and homeruns.
Beezer,
Not sure if anyone answered your question.
The inside foot (left) should touch and push off the inside corner of the bag.
Sometimes this just doesn’t happen. If you have to change your stride to do the above, then you should touch with the (right) foot.
TR,
I noticed you mentioned Willie Mays, Jackie Robinson and Maury Wills as none being flat out burners. I respectfully disagree!
Also, someone mentioned the 60 yard being a “showcase” thing. Believe me, I was timing 60s a long time before knowing what a showcase even was. Showcases have absolutely nothing to do with why 60 yards is used.
When at a game, the H-1 is all you got. We record both straight through and rounding the bag. All young players should get in the habit of doing both as quickly as possible because some day, someone will likely have the stop watch on them. And it could be very important! I start the watch just before contact. The time it takes to react and start the watch is equal to the time it takes the bat to make contact. Just last week I got a player 4.55 H-1. His dad standing right next to me showed me his stop watch, it read 3.98. (He ran a 7.3+ 60) I asked dad how he times that . He said from the sound (crack of the bat) to 1B. There’s the difference and I bet he anticipated the touch of 1B, too!
quote:
What do most coaches here teach; round a base using left foot to push or right? I always thought it was right foot but one of our coaches teaches them to use the left.
Not sure if anyone answered your question.
The inside foot (left) should touch and push off the inside corner of the bag.
Sometimes this just doesn’t happen. If you have to change your stride to do the above, then you should touch with the (right) foot.
TR,
I noticed you mentioned Willie Mays, Jackie Robinson and Maury Wills as none being flat out burners. I respectfully disagree!
Also, someone mentioned the 60 yard being a “showcase” thing. Believe me, I was timing 60s a long time before knowing what a showcase even was. Showcases have absolutely nothing to do with why 60 yards is used.
When at a game, the H-1 is all you got. We record both straight through and rounding the bag. All young players should get in the habit of doing both as quickly as possible because some day, someone will likely have the stop watch on them. And it could be very important! I start the watch just before contact. The time it takes to react and start the watch is equal to the time it takes the bat to make contact. Just last week I got a player 4.55 H-1. His dad standing right next to me showed me his stop watch, it read 3.98. (He ran a 7.3+ 60) I asked dad how he times that . He said from the sound (crack of the bat) to 1B. There’s the difference and I bet he anticipated the touch of 1B, too!
PGStaff-
I don't want you to miss this. Tell me what is the best PG showcase for my '06 son?
I don't want you to miss this. Tell me what is the best PG showcase for my '06 son?
JERRY
I don't consider them burners in light of some of speedsters today like the Roberts kid--they were fast but not track meet fast, at least to me-- I appreciated how they combined good spped with excellent baserunning and baseball smarts on the bases. Wills may have been the best ever is reading ptichers and getting a great jump as he stole a base
I always felt they were more excellent baserunners than flat out speedsters-- but back them as kids we did not have all the stats and technical aspects to compare players as we do today. Suffice it to say I would take any of them on my team in heartbeat
We can also add Roberto Clemente to that group of excellent baserunners with good speed.
I don't consider them burners in light of some of speedsters today like the Roberts kid--they were fast but not track meet fast, at least to me-- I appreciated how they combined good spped with excellent baserunning and baseball smarts on the bases. Wills may have been the best ever is reading ptichers and getting a great jump as he stole a base
I always felt they were more excellent baserunners than flat out speedsters-- but back them as kids we did not have all the stats and technical aspects to compare players as we do today. Suffice it to say I would take any of them on my team in heartbeat
We can also add Roberto Clemente to that group of excellent baserunners with good speed.
limom,
I try my best to get along with everyone. But, in the interest of my standing in the HSBBweb “good old boys” club, please don’t be quite so nice to me.
I would be very interested in finding out just what makes you tick! I’ve got a hunch you’re pulling some legs around here at times. I’d need to know more about your son before I could honestly answer your question. If you ever feel like emailing me, feel free. I will keep it all very confidential. pgjerry@qwest.net
I won’t see my email until next Wednesday, though.
TR,
Guess there’s no way of really knowing but I would guess all three would have run real fast 60s. Especially Mays and Robinson who had to be two of the fastest in their time. Wasn’t Jackie Robinson a star running back at UCLA or Southern Cal?
I try my best to get along with everyone. But, in the interest of my standing in the HSBBweb “good old boys” club, please don’t be quite so nice to me.
I would be very interested in finding out just what makes you tick! I’ve got a hunch you’re pulling some legs around here at times. I’d need to know more about your son before I could honestly answer your question. If you ever feel like emailing me, feel free. I will keep it all very confidential. pgjerry@qwest.net
I won’t see my email until next Wednesday, though.
TR,
Guess there’s no way of really knowing but I would guess all three would have run real fast 60s. Especially Mays and Robinson who had to be two of the fastest in their time. Wasn’t Jackie Robinson a star running back at UCLA or Southern Cal?
PG
I am sure we cannot dispute that--yes Robinson was a star running back at UCLA
We can agree to disagree on the term burners but we both agree that they were great ball players and we are splitting hairs in calling them burners or not--
I am sure we cannot dispute that--yes Robinson was a star running back at UCLA
We can agree to disagree on the term burners but we both agree that they were great ball players and we are splitting hairs in calling them burners or not--
Doug,
Here’s my opinion:
I think Michael Jordan was one of the greatest athletes I’ve ever seen. Bo Jackson, Carl Lewis, Willie Mays, Dominique Wilkins, Wilt Chamberlain and thousands of other people have been great athletes. Of course, not all were or would have been great baseball players.
A great athlete is a great athlete. To me athletic ability includes running, jumping, body control, instincts, reactions, coordination, and all those types of things. All those things are very important in baseball, but they are no where near enough. Throwing requires some athletic ability as does hitting, but it’s all together different in my mind. Though I believe being a good athlete can certainly be a benefit in throwing and hitting, there’s no guarantee. Fielding to me is more an athletic thing and I believe Jordan, or the others would have been good defensively if that’s what they had grown up concentrating on. To me the big separator is and will always be hitting. Being the greatest athlete in the world means nothing in the batters box. But if you’re good in the batters box and you’re a great athlete=Willie Mays. Or you can be good in the batters box and not very athletic=John Kruk
I think skills and athleticism are different things. But when the two are together it’s a big deal! I guess a great baseball athlete would be the guy with the most good playable skills or tools. Maybe someone like ARod. However, if only pure athletic ability were judged, there might be other ML players who are even more athletic. In other words the best “baseball athlete” may not be the best “athlete” in baseball.
I do think NBA basketball players are the best pro athletes overall. I can’t think of any John Kruk types playing in the NBA. Them wide receivers, defensive backs and running backs in the NFL are all good athletes, too.
A young baseball player we are familiar with who I would consider a “great” athlete is Carl Crawford. He led the American League in SBs last year. In high school his biggest weakness was his arm. He might have become a Heisman Trophy option QB at Nebraska if he hadn’t signed with the D’Rays.
So I think there is a difference between all the sports, but to me a great athlete is anyone in any sport who has great athletic ability. It doesn’t necessarily make them any better of an athlete if they play more than one sport. It doesn’t even mean they will be the best at the sport they play. I think it’s possible to be a great athlete without ever being extra special at any game let alone more than one. But, I would always take my chances on a great athlete.
I would also take my chances on that big LH bat at UCLA.
Here’s my opinion:
I think Michael Jordan was one of the greatest athletes I’ve ever seen. Bo Jackson, Carl Lewis, Willie Mays, Dominique Wilkins, Wilt Chamberlain and thousands of other people have been great athletes. Of course, not all were or would have been great baseball players.
A great athlete is a great athlete. To me athletic ability includes running, jumping, body control, instincts, reactions, coordination, and all those types of things. All those things are very important in baseball, but they are no where near enough. Throwing requires some athletic ability as does hitting, but it’s all together different in my mind. Though I believe being a good athlete can certainly be a benefit in throwing and hitting, there’s no guarantee. Fielding to me is more an athletic thing and I believe Jordan, or the others would have been good defensively if that’s what they had grown up concentrating on. To me the big separator is and will always be hitting. Being the greatest athlete in the world means nothing in the batters box. But if you’re good in the batters box and you’re a great athlete=Willie Mays. Or you can be good in the batters box and not very athletic=John Kruk
I think skills and athleticism are different things. But when the two are together it’s a big deal! I guess a great baseball athlete would be the guy with the most good playable skills or tools. Maybe someone like ARod. However, if only pure athletic ability were judged, there might be other ML players who are even more athletic. In other words the best “baseball athlete” may not be the best “athlete” in baseball.
I do think NBA basketball players are the best pro athletes overall. I can’t think of any John Kruk types playing in the NBA. Them wide receivers, defensive backs and running backs in the NFL are all good athletes, too.
A young baseball player we are familiar with who I would consider a “great” athlete is Carl Crawford. He led the American League in SBs last year. In high school his biggest weakness was his arm. He might have become a Heisman Trophy option QB at Nebraska if he hadn’t signed with the D’Rays.
So I think there is a difference between all the sports, but to me a great athlete is anyone in any sport who has great athletic ability. It doesn’t necessarily make them any better of an athlete if they play more than one sport. It doesn’t even mean they will be the best at the sport they play. I think it’s possible to be a great athlete without ever being extra special at any game let alone more than one. But, I would always take my chances on a great athlete.
I would also take my chances on that big LH bat at UCLA.
In two different posts on this thread limom84 writes: 
quote:
P.S. Leave my son out of this. He is only 7, a 2015 player and currently runs a 13.7 60.
quote:Do you have 1 son playing baseball or two? Maybe more time watching them play to learn the game of baseball would be time better spent than "hanging out with scouts". But, then that's just my opinion.
Tell me what is the best PG showcase for my '06 son?
RHP
Don't let her "trolling" get to you !!!!
Don't let her "trolling" get to you !!!!
Have you guys heard of Lennie Limonetti? Im telling you what if you haven't you will soon enough. Last year he stole 185 bags in 185 attempts. He actually stole first base 50 times. Can you believe it he actually stole first base! He runs a 4 flat 60!!!! Thats first to third in 4 flat. I hear he cant hit that great but with that speed who cares. This is how he usually steals the show at a game. Starts off the game stealing first. Steals second and third on the same pitch and then steals home. Now listen to this strategy by the coach to utilize his speed. Late in the game runner on first ok. Are you following me? One out Lennie is up. Well he k's on purpose for the second out. Well what do you know he gets to run for the guy at first because he made the second out of the inning. Cool aint it. Well guess what he steals second and third on a breaking ball. Usually he only steals one base on a fastball on two on a breaking pitch. Steals home and they win. Oh did I forget to mention that this is whiffle ball? Who cares if he can do this in a whiffle ball game just wait till the hs season.
Coach Cohen of UK stated that he and other college coaches didn't care about the 60. The key words being HE and OTHERS. Others may ba a select few and not ALL college coaches.
Just wanted to clarify.
Limom,
In fact the pro scouts were standing there at the finish with stop watches in hand. And the times were being recorded by the staff.
Just wanted to clarify.
Limom,
In fact the pro scouts were standing there at the finish with stop watches in hand. And the times were being recorded by the staff.
RHP05-
I have two sons, an '06 and a '15. So I'll be here a LONG time...
Aren't you guys lucky...
I have two sons, an '06 and a '15. So I'll be here a LONG time...
Aren't you guys lucky...
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
Beezer,quote:
What do most coaches here teach; round a base using left foot to push or right? I always thought it was right foot but one of our coaches teaches them to use the left.
Not sure if anyone answered your question.
The inside foot (left) should touch and push off the inside corner of the bag.
Sometimes this just doesn’t happen. If you have to change your stride to do the above, then you should touch with the (right) foot.
Thanks. Our head coach is instructing them to do just that (push off left foot) but I never see players do it. I don't get to see many college games but even during the CWS, I never saw any runners do it so I just thought I'd ask around.
More 60 times from the Jeff Davis CC showcase. The times I posted before from the Faulkner showcase appear to be a little faster than these.
JDCC Showcase
JDCC Showcase
quote:
Originally posted by dad4boys:
More 60 times from the Jeff Davis CC showcase. The times I posted before from the Faulkner showcase appear to be a little faster than these.
http://www.jeffdavis.cc.al.us/index.php?action=1382
Just as on would suspect, not one time under 7.0. Is it clear why scouts love speed?
Scouts love speed. Scouts love guys that can hit. Scouts love guys that can pitch and throw hard. Scouts love alot of things.
Speed good glove, hitter Great
Speed ok glove, hitter Good
Speed ok glove, ok hitter (Have fun in HS)
Speed good glove, hitter Great
Speed ok glove, hitter Good
Speed ok glove, ok hitter (Have fun in HS)
From my own personal experiences when you go to most of the showcases one of the first things they do is run the 60. If a kid can fly then it usually gets alot of attention, but as soon as gets to the fielding, throwing and hitting and if they are terrible or below average, speed means nada.
There's a kid on my team, that runs a 6.8 straight 60, I run a 7.15 (on a good day). In a race from home (out of the box) to second (sliding), I beat him everytime. Because I can run bases and know how to slide. Kids on the team bust on me because some football player that tries out for baseball smokes me in the 60, but takes fly balls off the noggin like jose canseco.
Some of the best players down here are kids that aren't fast, they've got everything else though.
It's so overrated, unless you've got the other tools, then it makes you first five round draft material.
By the way, we run bases in wiffle ball and try to peg you with the ball and leave the biggest welt imaginable on their ---.
There's a kid on my team, that runs a 6.8 straight 60, I run a 7.15 (on a good day). In a race from home (out of the box) to second (sliding), I beat him everytime. Because I can run bases and know how to slide. Kids on the team bust on me because some football player that tries out for baseball smokes me in the 60, but takes fly balls off the noggin like jose canseco.
Some of the best players down here are kids that aren't fast, they've got everything else though.
It's so overrated, unless you've got the other tools, then it makes you first five round draft material.
By the way, we run bases in wiffle ball and try to peg you with the ball and leave the biggest welt imaginable on their ---.
Texas,
What most fail to realize is that 7.15 is a very good runner and faster than most. When I talk of sub 7 runners, I am talking about boys that can play the game and yes they even can hit. You would have the third fastest time at the showcase I referenced, so all eyes would have been on you for fileding and hitting.
Good luck and keep up the hard work.
What most fail to realize is that 7.15 is a very good runner and faster than most. When I talk of sub 7 runners, I am talking about boys that can play the game and yes they even can hit. You would have the third fastest time at the showcase I referenced, so all eyes would have been on you for fileding and hitting.
Good luck and keep up the hard work.
PG,
I've heard coaches who advocate hitting the bag with the left foot and coaches who advocate hitting the bag with the right foot.
Hitting the bag with the right foot would seem to result in the shortest path.
What is the reasoning behind hitting the bag with the left foot?
I've heard coaches who advocate hitting the bag with the left foot and coaches who advocate hitting the bag with the right foot.
Hitting the bag with the right foot would seem to result in the shortest path.
What is the reasoning behind hitting the bag with the left foot?
Just a clarification (fwiw)...the JDCC Showcase that is being referenced made a point to include a memo that the 60 numbers were higher than what might normally be expected because of excessively wet outfield grass.
CADad,
If I could draw the path it would make more sense. Most coaches would teach using either right or left foot (whichever one was in stride). I don't know of any high level knowledgable coach who would ever teach right foot touching the bag being the best way. If you know of someone who teaches this, I'd like to talk to them in order to see if they know something I might not be aware of.
Ideally, the inside (left) foot allows for the fastest time from H-2B or 2B-H. It is more about technique and path than anything else.
1. It allows for runners to use the bag when rounding it. Your left foot on the inside corner done properly will shift your weight and can be used to push off towards the next base. Your outside (Right) foot does not allow this without slowing down a lot because of weight, balance and momentum.
2. It allows for a more square turn rather than the big circle and create a more straight line to the next base. Everyone would agree that a straight line (square) between bases would be the shorter path than a circle. Your right foot touching the bag is more likely to cause wide turns and unsure footing.
You are right in saying the actual path the body takes seems shorter. After all it is true that the right foot is the outside part of the arc.
However, if we take 2B-H as an example: The runner who touches 3B with his right foot is much more likely to have momentum towards the 3B Dugout than the runner who cuts this turn and has a more straight line approach towards home plate. Sometimes the right foot has to be the foot that touches because you don't want to change stride which costs time. This is often when you will see runners make the wide turn to the plate.
Once players understand how much quicker the left foot touching gets them to their target, they can practise this and become very good at getting their stride working just right to use the inside foot most all the time.
Also think in terms of running bases more than one base at a time. There are advantages in the last 90 feet vs the first 90 feet being the shortest or straightest line. This is why hitters who know they've got at least a single start arcing early. It might be slower to 1B, but it's much quicker to 2B. This allows for more judgement time in the first 90+ feet and less time to run the most critical less than 90 feet.
Trying to score from 2B is the same in that you want the last leg to be the fastest most direct route. The 3B coach has the added advantage of having more time in making his decision as to scoring or stopping the runner.
So lets say you have absolute exact running time from 2B to home plate with straighter first leg and wider turn and second leg vs a wider first leg and faster straighter last leg. The faster last leg (3B-H) is much more beneficial in many ways. Those with the big turns that get them way out in the grass are most likely to be thrown out.
Once again, if anyone has a different theory I'd be very interested in hearing it.
If I could draw the path it would make more sense. Most coaches would teach using either right or left foot (whichever one was in stride). I don't know of any high level knowledgable coach who would ever teach right foot touching the bag being the best way. If you know of someone who teaches this, I'd like to talk to them in order to see if they know something I might not be aware of.
Ideally, the inside (left) foot allows for the fastest time from H-2B or 2B-H. It is more about technique and path than anything else.
1. It allows for runners to use the bag when rounding it. Your left foot on the inside corner done properly will shift your weight and can be used to push off towards the next base. Your outside (Right) foot does not allow this without slowing down a lot because of weight, balance and momentum.
2. It allows for a more square turn rather than the big circle and create a more straight line to the next base. Everyone would agree that a straight line (square) between bases would be the shorter path than a circle. Your right foot touching the bag is more likely to cause wide turns and unsure footing.
You are right in saying the actual path the body takes seems shorter. After all it is true that the right foot is the outside part of the arc.
However, if we take 2B-H as an example: The runner who touches 3B with his right foot is much more likely to have momentum towards the 3B Dugout than the runner who cuts this turn and has a more straight line approach towards home plate. Sometimes the right foot has to be the foot that touches because you don't want to change stride which costs time. This is often when you will see runners make the wide turn to the plate.
Once players understand how much quicker the left foot touching gets them to their target, they can practise this and become very good at getting their stride working just right to use the inside foot most all the time.
Also think in terms of running bases more than one base at a time. There are advantages in the last 90 feet vs the first 90 feet being the shortest or straightest line. This is why hitters who know they've got at least a single start arcing early. It might be slower to 1B, but it's much quicker to 2B. This allows for more judgement time in the first 90+ feet and less time to run the most critical less than 90 feet.
Trying to score from 2B is the same in that you want the last leg to be the fastest most direct route. The 3B coach has the added advantage of having more time in making his decision as to scoring or stopping the runner.
So lets say you have absolute exact running time from 2B to home plate with straighter first leg and wider turn and second leg vs a wider first leg and faster straighter last leg. The faster last leg (3B-H) is much more beneficial in many ways. Those with the big turns that get them way out in the grass are most likely to be thrown out.
Once again, if anyone has a different theory I'd be very interested in hearing it.