The Best There Ever Was

Babe Ruth

Not that long until it will be 100 years since his ML debut, and we're still talking about him. Don't forget his early pitching stats, either. Watching "The Emerald Diamond" not long ago, I was hearing the Irish mention him and thought "Wow. Hardly a baseball country, but he's a baseball legend there as well. That's longevity!"

Ditto on Babe Ruth

Though my personal favorite player was Willie Mays.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Ditto on Babe Ruth

Though my personal favorite player was Willie Mays.

Double ditto.

only one?.......pretty much makes it impossible for me to name only one..

But here are acouple of my choices....

Give back the years that he gave to the service of our country.....in WWII and Korea...

Ted Williams....

For Williams' fortieth birthday, General MacArthur sent him an oil painting of himself with the inscription "To Ted Williams - not only America's greatest baseball player, but a great American who served his country. Your friend, Douglas MacArthur. General U.S. Army.



And its hard to overlook

Ty Cobb....

1911 ML MVP
.367 career batting average (highest ever)
54 career steals of home (most all time)
12 batting titles(including 9 straight)


Not to mention...

Cy Young
Christy Matthewson
Honus Wagner
Rogers Hornsby
Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
Joe DiMaggio
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Roberto Clemente

......and on....

Honus Wagner had the best baseball card to own, of all time.

Willie Mays was rookie of the year in 1951. He was drafted and missed part of 1952 and all of 1953 in the military. Not the hero Ted Williams was, but still he served his country. He came back in 1954 and hit .345 with 41 HRs and was named league MVP.

It was his all around game that amazed me the most.
He truly had 80 ability across the board. IMO the greatest defensive outfielder and overall baserunner ever.

Also played in a great era with and against many of the greatest players who ever lived.

Still, Babe Ruth is the #1 legend in baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando:
Babe Ruth

Not that long until it will be 100 years since his ML debut, and we're still talking about him. Don't forget his early pitching stats, either. Watching "The Emerald Diamond" not long ago, I was hearing the Irish mention him and thought "Wow. Hardly a baseball country, but he's a baseball legend there as well. That's longevity!"

And it is not even close. The next guy that goes out and wins about 100 games as a pitcher, then hangs em up to hit 700 or so home runs, then maybe we can have the conversation. I believe Ted Williams' name needs to be mentioned when the discussion of the greatest hitters come up but I also believe Ruth was ultimately the greatest hitter. Lou Gehrig, if not for playing in the shadow of Ruth should also be in the conversation imho.

Babe Ruth is the greatest by legend few if any of us ever were around to see him play.
In my book, it's Willie Mays, I watched him when the Giants came to S.F. in 1958 at the old Seals ballpark then when he played at Candlestick the worlds worst baseball field ever built. If you could play outfield there you could play in a hurricane.
Growing up got to watch three of the best center fielders ever to play the game. Two of them many times in person.

Mays
Mantle
Snider (even though he started out as a Dodger)

Most famous: The Babe. However, a 17 year old girl here in Chattanooga once proved he wasn't so tough. (Jackie Mitchell)

The best: A guy that made his pro debut here with the Choo-Choo's, Willie Mays.

Willie Mays. His autographed picture has hung in my conference room at my office for 20 years. The best ever-best player, best attitude, simply the best.

Seriously now, wasn't he the best there ever was

Looking at Ruth's stats he really didn't start hitting alot of HR's till he effectively stopped pitching.

Ties in nicely with the discussion asking "why can't pitchers hit"?

One other thing you can't include Ruth's pitching record in the discussion 'cause everyone knows pitchers are not baseball players.

Measured against the competition of his time, to me Babe Ruth clearly stands out as the best. His impact on the game, both on and off the field, is in the Jim Brown, Chamberlain/Jordan, Tiger Woods category.Or maybe they are in his category.

I certainly would rather have Mays in the outfield, but I would want Ruth at the plate.

Willie Mays gets another vote.
To have played the majority of his career in the howling winds and fog/cold of Candlejoint Park, and put up 660 home runs, along with his other numbers defies belief. This was before the Park was enclosed to somewhat make it tolerable.
The very first game I saw Mays was in 1964, in early June. We left home where it was 85 degrees. Drove 30 miles, arrived at the Park where the fog was in, the winds were howling and the hot dog wrappers flying. Game time temperature was 56 degrees and it got colder from there.
There was no 303' right field porch at the "Stick" and Mays still ended up just behind Ruth.
In the field and on the bases, he was elegant. Nothing looked tough, as Vic Wertz will attest.

Babe Ruth tied for the league lead in HR's in 1918 with 11 while he was still a regular starting pitcher and playing outfield some of the time. In 1915 as a full time pitcher he hit 4 HR's while the league leader had 7 and 5 teams had only in the teens so he was already an incredible HR hitter as a pitcher and that is why the idea to convert him to a full-time outfielder came up in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
Nothing looked tough, as Vic Wertz will attest.

Now why did you have to throw that line in there?

Mays for me too. Both son's wear #24.

infielddad,
When they enclosed the field it went from hurricanes to swirling winds. Watching the infielders and outfielders run around in circles for a pop fly was very entertaining. I think it was Juan Marichel(sic)
that was blown off the mound during his wind up.
Funny thing was when the fog rolled in, it sometimes got warmer, but than you could hardly see the field.

Another vote for Willie Mays here

quote:

Originally posted by Tooldforthis:
infielddad,
I think it was Juan Marichel(sic)
that was blown off the mound during his wind up.

It was the Giants reliever, Stu Miller in the 1965(?) All Star game who was blown off the rubber/mound.

Sorry, you are correct. I couldn't remember for sure.

Some friends and I were having a similar discussion at a game recently. We were focused on players we actually saw play...at each position.

If I used the criteria...actually saw him play, in person, in his prime (I saw Mays play in person late in his career...pretty sure I saw Clemente, but not certain...saw Aaron too, but late in his career too)...but I would say...

Johnny Bench.

Even without the home runs and hitting in his best years...defensively, he controlled the game like no other catcher I've seen since.

Guess I'll have to post that article on Stan Musial again if the discussion is altered to Best You Ever Saw Play.

of the ones I actually saw "IN PERSON" and just not on TV....Id say....

Mantle- I saw him, but I was too young to evaluate at the time...

Aaron
Clemente
Seaver
Bench
Palmer
Ryan

I was at a Cards game last week and I was in a suite with Whitey Herzog. Sweet! In his opinion Mantle was the best he ever saw.

Willie Mays;

Of course I am partial.

Willie accepted my offer to sign autographs at my General Tire business in Burlingame, California in 1965, 10 years after I played against his "barnstorming" team in El Paso, Texas.

Recently I learned that Reggie Smith age 15 also attended this autograph signing session.

The next year, Willie visited my home we enjoyed a lunch.My mother asked Willie 'why do not go to Las Vegas like Frank Howard and other Dodgers"

Willie said "my image with the kids is too important".

Willie Mays is a good person "off and on" the field of baseball. Every day, I observed our photo together in uniform that day in El Paso.

Bob Williams

Best ever - Ruth or Cobb, no other names necessary here.

Best I ever saw -- Juiced - Barry Bonds

Not juiced -- Greg Maddux and Rickey Henderson.

Babe Ruth-- . I am not Mr. Stat but didn't he hit more home runs one year by himself then whole teams combined?

Lots of HR hitters mentioned, not one mention of Charlie Hustle.

quote:

not one mention of Charlie Hustle.

I've never seen a more intense Gamer in my life then Rose.
He would of ran threw a brick wall to catch the ball.

May's and Mantle were the one's when I was growing up, that were considered the best.

But Mays was the best overall player and entertainer.
A certain swagger and showmanship that is missing in todays player's.
May's new he was there to entertain tha Fan's.
Give them a show to remember.

Thats what the Pro's are about.
Keep the fan's coming back for more.

EH

Willie Mays was the first 5 tool player that most of us that are a little older remember and what we now use as a gauge.
But, growing up in and around SF, Willie was not liked by most of the early SF fans. He made some comments when he got here about missing NY and and the fans were not as good as NY fans. Some times the fans would boo him (though never as much as Johnny LeMaster who came out with Boo on his name space on the back of his jersey). He finally became popular toward the end of he playing days in SF before going back to play for the Mets.
Willie McCovey was the fan favorite even when he left to play for SD and then came back. Even now when he sits in the back room of McCovey's Restaurant.

Ruth

I have never seen footage of Ruth playing the field.

Ruth could Hit and Pitch.

But what was he like in the field?
Did he make over the head catches?
Did he run the ball down in the gap.
Did he steal bases.
Did he gun them down at the plate.

EH

Mays-Power, base running, average, and defense.
Plus class.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:

quote:

not one mention of Charlie Hustle.

I've never seen a more intense Gamer in my life then Rose.
He would of ran threw a brick wall to catch the ball.

EH

Kind of what I was thinking. Maybe not "the best there ever was" based on stats, but from a "way he played the game" none better.

In addition he played essentially every position..

All star at 5 different positions, all time hit leader, and a .987 career fielding %.

I agree as far as exciting players Pete Rose--"Charlie Husle" played the way you wish many of todays pros would play--hustling down the line every play as if it would be his last, love that guy! Not jogging, thats why he is all-time leader in hits, he pressed the defense to make plays, turned routine groundouts into base hitts. Agreed none better as far as attitude!

Nobody's tops Babe Ruth. He's the greatest player of all time by far.

Comparing Aaron, Mays or anybody else is an insult. They're among the greatest players all time but they're no Babe Ruth

He was hitting more home runs by himself than entire teams.

Had Babe Ruth stuck with pitching, he probably would've won 300-500 games and had the lowest ERA of all time.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
I have never seen footage of Ruth playing the field.

Ruth could Hit and Pitch.

But what was he like in the field?
Did he make over the head catches?
Did he run the ball down in the gap.
Did he steal bases.
Did he gun them down at the plate.

EH

From what I've read, he played RF in Yankee Stadium (smallish) and then 1B with statistics that indicated he was your basic fielder. There have been accounts of fantastic plays, but keep in mind he was the premier player in baseball at the time and writers probably were none too objective.

Yes, he stole some bases, but he tried one too many....to end the '26 Series in favor of my Cardinals. (no, I wasn't there....I had to be in school that day )

But....so what?

The man saved baseball after the Black Sox, redefined the way it was played with his home runs (has anybody else single-handedly changed the game like that?), and dominated the sport. That's quite enough, he didn't need to be Five Tool.

Heck, he died sixty years ago, stopped playing over 70 years ago, and people still refer to The Best in an endeavor as "The Babe Ruth of ________".

That says rather a lot.

quote:

The Best There Ever Was

Ruth no doubt was the best player for the sport of baseball.
Brought it out of the dumps.

But is that the question that is asked in this thread.
To many variable's.
Best for the game.
Then it would be Ruth.
Best overall player would have to go to May's.
But there's so many great players out there, and I'm sure people have there favorite's.

Mine in the modern era would have to be Ken Griffey JR.
When the Kid was younger and at Seattle, there was no player like him.
He surpassed Bonds early on in his career, then the injury's started.
Most of the time he was injured going for the ball, slamming into the wall.
That will catch up to you after awhile.

EH