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The less talented player

FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
Sometimes things go wrong when a young “player” is being misled in to believing he is something he isn’t. Is someone to blame? Should we point an accusatory finger at the parent? . . . or. . . .could the parents be victims of the youth baseball system too? I know parents that have spent thousands of dollars on private lessons trying to make their son something he wasn’t and NEVER going to be. I've seen this as it was unfolding but couldn't say anything.
Youth baseball is a system of hitting instructors, pitching instructors, coaches, managers, promoters, advisors, agents and teachers. All are motivated by different things, some good and some bad. Among them are money, ego, personal gratification, love of the game, and highly involved parenting (daddyball). The one thing they all need to survive are PLAYERS.. . . .LOTS OF PLAYERS.
Over the years I have seen a lot of good things happen to many players. Good things because of these instructors, showcase promoters, advisors and involved parents. But for the most part, the good things only happened to the talented players. But what about the less talented players? Does the system really want them? If you understand how the system works, you understand the system NEEDS them too. They spend the same time, make the same sacrifices, and their parents pay the same money (they actually spend more money than the talented player) and what do they get in return? Sometimes, NOT MUCH! Many of these players are nothing but a support team for the more talented player(s). The dreaded “daddy ball” is a good example. The SS is the coach’s son and everything evolves around him. The #1 and #2 hitters are there to provide RBI opportunities for #3 hitter which happens to be the coach’s son. The second baseman is necessary to have a double play.
What about empty slots at showcases? Who fills them? The best showcases have the better talent top to bottom but no matter what the caliber of the showcase it is still a numbers game. There is a breakeven point that is reflected by a particular number of players. Increased participation makes positive reflections on the balance sheet. That’s not bad in itself but it should help if you understand it.
Summer team rosters sometimes get a little large with coaches having to recruit less than talented players. Again, sometimes money (coach’s salary) tends to figure into the recruiting scheme. On the other hand my son played on one team that the manager actually spent about $40,000.00 of his personal money to fund two teams.
If a parent has the ability to objectively judge their son’s talent against the talent of others, understand why things happen as they do in the world of youth baseball, make the necessary adjustments, their son and his parents will have a great experience. On the other hand if we go into it with an open wallet and a closed mind. . . we are in for a big letdown.
Fungo
Last edited {1}
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TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
FUNGO

Very interesting post !!

I truly believe that the HS player who wants to play at the next level will do so if he works hard enough at it.

Not every player on a team can be "the stud"--- but every player on a team can get exposure if the team is managed right. In addition the player should be made aware as to how he will be used so there are no surprises. For instance in an event such as the PG/BA wood bat event the underclassmen must know that the upperclassmen get the majority of the playing time.

I agree with with FUNGO--go into it with your eyes wide open !!! Then there will be no disappointment.

Most importantly --do your homework before you sign on with any team/program
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
The better they do the more the players enjoy the game. Lessons, hard work, etc. helps a player do better relative to his talent level. There is a fine line between playing against the best competition possible and getting in over your head and losing playing time and confidence. Right now, with my son having just turned 13 and in 8th grade it is difficult to know how things are going to turn out. He's got strengths and he's got weaknesses. He's probably got enough talent to make the varsity at a strong school as a junior if he keeps working at it but he'll have to step up some to make it as a sophmore given that he's not likely to mature early. After HS who knows?
W Will1,000+ posts
Baseball was a simple game. What happened. Having been a contributor to this web site I hear all the terms. Select team, showcases,travel team, tournament teams, private instruction. I often wondered how the game ever survived before all this came along. I know I and others of my generation had all this. How did we learn the game and how did any of us progress to any higher level? Makes you wonder.
gratefulgrateful1,000+ posts
Fungo, this is a great topic. Your question about the lesser talented players perhaps being misled into believing that they are better than they are can also be asked about some teams.

In doing research for my Masters Thesis this week I came across an article about 'select' or 'elite' teams. It seems that several years ago there were very few of these teams. The terms select and elite for these purposes are often used interchangeably. Some parents. coaches, and players believe that if they are a part of a 'select' or 'elite' team then that makes them an elite player. With the recent proliferation in the number of 'select/elite' teams, not only are some players given the idea that they are more talented than they actually are, but there are teams whose mentality is that they are better then they actually are, simply due to the 'selection' process or the category that they list themselves.

How can there possibly be so many select teams in a given area? Hopefully we (parents, coaches, et al) are developing well rounded young people who won't be devastated when their baseball careers don't go the way they were expected to go.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
A few years ago one of our HS players moved from the north to our area. The kid was a stud from where he came from, held best pitching records, batting records, etc. He wanted to get more playing time, so the family moved here to better his position possibly in the draft (not a student).
He struggled from the first time he played with the boys who had lived and played here all of their lives. He lost his position as pitcher (was actually told by coaches he should not be pitching, would only be used for an extra arm if needed and was fair at batting and position). His mom to this day says he was never given a fair chance. No school or scout ever blinked at him.
So would he have done better staying where he was? Your opinions appreciated.
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
Will you have a pm. Big Grin

TPM, It is very difficult to move to a new area in the hs years. We did it twice. The move to Texas was very difficult.

When you grow up in an area you get a reputation as a player that can do it. So if you start off slowly coaches will give you a chance to come around because of your reputation. When we first moved to Texas my son tried out for a select 16 year old team and the coach was not impressed and the more he was bent on teaching the kid from Florida about Texas ball, the more my son pressed. He did not perform well at all. He left that team and went to the Dallas Mustangs and they took to him right away and the rest is history so to speak.

The move to Florida was difficult, but not as because we had been here before and he still had a reputation as a player and knew a lot of the kids at the new hs.

I still believe that it effected him in the draft. Most scouts told me that they had been watching kids since they were in 10th grade and only got to see my son in the 12th grade. They said it made their eveluation more difficult because they had not seen his progression. I still believe that had he stayed in Texas (Dallas area) that he might have done better because that area had much less pitching than the so Florida area and the scouts got to see him in a high profile program in Texas and they went five rounds deep into the playoffs his junior year. All of the scouts had already seen him. He had been asked to the Texas HS Scouts Association, etc.

In closing, I think that it is better to stay put. JMO
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
We had a kid move here from the midwest at 11yo. He had been the league's best pitcher, ss, etc. After his first practice with his regular season team he realized he was in a whole different world. Despite his dad being an excellent coach I was able to get the kid in the 4th or 5th round of the draft as a 12yo. There really can be disparities in talent from area to area and league to league.

The kid had a fair amount of talent, especially great wheels, and although he improved over the next couple years he never got to the point that he felt like he was good enough to play with the all-star kids.
FutureBack.MomFutureBack.Mom1,000+ posts
This is a very interesting thread and I appreciate all the insight and thoughtful responses. But I would add one more comment, from personal history.

Sometimes parents and players don't listen to what "experts" tell them because that "expert " may not know enough about the player to make a valid assessment. When our son was 14, and despite his reputation to that point in time, he was told by a man who would later become his Connie Mack coach, that he wouldn't make it to the next level or beyond because he didn't have "what it took" ... His perception of our son was that AJ didn't have the work ethic that he (that coach and hitting instructor) thought was necessary for AJ to be successful. I think history has spoken for itself and AJ has shown that he did in fact have the work ethic and drive to succeed. He elected to participate with more competitive players who wanted to play more baseball than his local teammates. He stepped out on a limb there as he left the comfort of the local team. And he did pretty well at all levels.

We later came to realize that the coach's perceptions about players varied significantly, depending on whether or not a player was taking instruction FROM HIM at his private baseball school. His opinion of AJ changed after AJ signed on with him. But we also realized, several years and just a few $$ down the road Frown that AJ wasn't improving his hitting under that instructor and that even tho he was a decent two-way player, his real talent was on the mound and not at the plate (but he can still hit them hard, as he did in minor league BP, taking several to the warning track a few times). So he quite the instruction, still played ball for the coach, and focused on pitching.

So, basically what I am trying to say is that even tho there are parents out there who don't seem to listen to the experts, sometimes they and the player know something the "expert" doesn't.

By the way, his former hitting instructor/coach has never once contacted our son to congratulate him on his college success, his draft, or his first season of minor league play. We still see him at various venues in southern Cal, but he has never acknowledged our son's success. But actually, since we didn't utilize his services in trying to find a college for our son, maybe he didn't think AJ would be successful there either ... since he didn't have that "expert's" help.

Just another point of view ...
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
I know that a lot of parents wear rose colored glasses. A lot of coaches couldn't evealuate talent or better yet project talent if it bit them in the arse.

There is the 12 year old coach who ran a really good program and had tournaments every weekend. He said my son would never be able to play "select" ball. 2 years later my son had 2 hr's and pitched a 1 hitter against this guy and announced to the coach. I was good enough today.

The 14 year old coach who told him he would never make the hs team and didn't pick him for the Junior Olympic team and was a scout (birddog). Was he being honest or just stupid.

The 15 year old coach who told him that he was a mental wussy and had 2 pitchers drafted so he "knew".

The area code scout that said my son was not draftable material. I guess those 5'10 86 mph throwers were. They were not drafted though. As a matter of fact, half of them weren't. Of course it was a Rangers scout. What would they know about pitching. Big Grin

I think coaches who want to evaluate kids should do so only in the context of their own team as "they" see it. That they are not professionals and that projecting future talent is something that they should not induldge their egos in. Encourage them to work hard and try again later.

Sometimes coaches wear poo poo shaded glasses. Meaning that they are so full of it that their eyes are leaking. Big Grin

Sometimes you have to wade through the poop to get to the sunshine.
Last edited by Bighit15
S Starzz500+ posts
Kids know where they stack up...if you ask them and they honestly say they can compete, then I would support their dream. It will all take care of itself. Their are so many coaches that have no idea what will come or project for a kid. Most spend their time with the same level and the same age, which a great disadvantage. I would never let a kid play for a coach who said he wasn't good enough.

Anyone can coach talent...but not everyone can develop it.
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