The making of a baseball player

Too bad we can't spin the world backwards, go back in time and place preteen travel and LL all-stars before age twelve back in the box. Would that be Pandora's box? Then we wouldn't have parents thinking their son is a future pro because he played 7U USSSA Tee ball and was a travel and or all-star player five times by time he's twelve. The insanity wouldn't start until the teen years.

We have 3U tee ball in our area. Where does it end? Why do we have 3U tee ball? Because s****r has U5 (four year old) s****r. I made two mistakes. I signed my son up for U5 s****r. The second mistake was being talked into coaching. Has anyone ever herded cats to the roundup? I can say I laughed a lot.

I'm so glad that my family didn't even know about all this stuff until high school. Playing little league through age 14 suited my son just fine.

Thankfully, I don't think we wasted too much money, although two camps come to mind (one top 10 school that was out of reach athletically and one Big 12 program that flattered our son on the phone, inviting him to their camp and making him think they were interested in him, but weren't!).

As a late bloomer, my son is earnestly trying to gain some much-needed bulk. Every once in a while, I'm tempted to cough up $100 per month for one of those weightlifting supplements, but then I stop myself and say, "Nope, we're gonna do it the old-fashioned way."

I'm not a soapbox about this I just thought it would be interesting to look at ourselves and what we do (have done). I laugh at myself because I did most of the same things. At the time I thought most of it was necessary and I guess my justification was I HAD to do MY part. I thought I was smart at the time but now I realize I did some dumb things too. Hey, I can remember buying 2 identical high dollar bats at the same time with one being just 1 oz. lighter so he could adjust to the faster pitchers. The only problem he never looked at the weight.

Fungo I love your posts!

I would more or less say we spent more time and money on raising a happy healthy kid than making a ballplayer. Not sure if mother nature had not done a better job if things would have been different. People warned us NOT to do a lot of things and we listened. Just let him grow naturally and be active in other sports and do well in school. That was the philosophy. Parents of younger players will often say, it's alot more competitive these days and I agree, but in reality it's the parents that have created that competition.

The first expensive bat bought for son was used to hit rocks into the lake, so that was the last expensive bat he ever got. We never even replaced gloves that often, the more it looked used and was used the more he liked it. I remember once we went from puma cleats to Nike (much more expensive) and he complained that he liked the "cheaper" ones better. We bought the under armour, but an old cut up good luck tshirt was the undershirt of choice (still to this day). The one thing that we did succomb to was myoplex in late HS to help rid the bean pole look, and that is the only thing he uses now for training. IMO you don't need all the fancy stuff, running a track or steps works for cardio! I have been doing some research and learning that there are specific things needed to do in training that he never did, and now he is working on those things with a trainer.

What bothers me in all of this new explosion of travel teams for young players is the seriousness which is placed upon those players to WIN, and in doing so, a young players health (injuries)can be compromised and never reach his goals because of the intensity in which younger players approach the game.

We live in a different time even when son was growing up, you need to sift through everything and decide what works best to fit your circumstances and budget. If parents give into what everyone else is doing, eventually they will find out that they have spent lots of money and not gotten the returns they were looking for, not just in baseball, but in everything you do for yuor kids.

Fungo, great post!

Fortunately we have not gone down that path, heck we really ahven't gone down any path yet. My son will be nine in April (can some you you old schoolers believe that, NINE!). He hasn't quite made up his mind to play anything yet. If and when he does decide to play, it'll be rec ball, with the same glove he's had since he was six (cause daddy gets a heafty discount), and with a wood bat (cause daddy owns the company ). That's even if he decides he wants to play, which there's no quarantee, he's a pretty good little singer.

The Big 3 manufacturers are out of hand. And you wonder why baseball is losing it's interest to a lot of the underprivilaged.

Profit drives a company, greed destroys it.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
If parents give into what everyone else is doing, eventually they will find out that they have spent lots of money and not gotten the returns they were looking for, not just in baseball, but in everything you do for your kids.

Dr Joel Fish is the head of the Center for Sports Psychiatry. They work with professional teams and top amateur teams like Team USA's and Olympic teams.

Their biggest client base is mid to late teen kids who have not met their parents expectations after the parents invested tens of thousands of dollars and invested a lot of time and emotions to the goal of their child becoming a star and getting a college ride. He said there are kids who have come to hate their sport but can't quit because they fear how their parents will respond. Many of them get to high school age to find out talent can't be purchased. Some have emotional problems after they fail in their sport because the sport became their identity from the time they were very young.

I learned a lot from a situation when my son was nine or ten. His travel s****r team had just pulled a major upset, not just beating the undefeated first place team, but bombing them. The win pushed his team into first on the last day of the season (no playoffs).

Conversation walking to the car:

ME: That was an awesome game! What did the coach say after the game?

JR: He said we played well. What's for lunch?

ME: He must have said more than that!

JR: He congratulated us for winning the championship. Could I have a PlayStation for Christmas?

I got it in two responses. As much as my son has the fire to win during the game, it was over and it wasn't his life. Game over. Championship won. We already danced. What's for lunch? Life keeps moving forward.

My son is the same. When the game is over it is over. He also loves the battle but he never lets a bad pitch or outting upset him.
I didn't set out to make him a pitcher that just evolved. We put him in BB because his sisters were in fast ball and it was just a walk down the street to the ball park. He didn't show an aptitude for BB until he was 9. I was more into football as a kid and had no agenda to have my son play BB.
Half way through his 1st year of BB at 9 he just transformed into a very good ball player and was called up to the AAA travel squad. He had soft hands and beautiful balance when he made plays. At that point he was playing 3rd base since it was machine pitch. He showed a strong and accurate arm and great foot work.
We were never caught up in the big money thing and when he was 15 he made the 16U provincial team which we turned down since it was $5000 a year compared to $1200 on another elite team. I knew that was a risky decision because at the time it was the team to be on . We actually went to the tryout so he could gage his skill level. Most of the pitchers who were on that team have been drafted or at top D1 schools. At that time we were not even thinking college BB. To us it was a form of entertainment and not until he was 17-18 did he talk about US college ball.

how do you tell what you need to do to further your kids chance to succeed? ...you can't. there is not one member of this forum that would tell you they did everything right. you cannot buy the perfect bat, you cannot find the perfect camp or prospect team.... why? because the next one is the one you should have gone to. better, best, pro-preferred, pro-elite hundred of scouts.......aaaaauuuuuuggghhhhh. all the while you tell yourself, "i can't afford this", but it is too easy to let "i can't afford not to" win out in your mind.
the greatest problem, noted many times on bbweb is the lack of ability of most parents to efficiently appraise the talent level of their player. what level can he get to? and how can i help him get there? how hard do i push? does he want what i think he wants? is he good enough to spend all this time and money, when he may just want to go to the lake? ...is this for me or for him???

we have all heard the percentages, we know the numbers don't lie. the odds are stacked against even the best player. why don't we quit? why do we allow ourselves to set our kids up for this failure?

because that is not what we do in any aspect of our or our kids lives. we work for, train for success. we have and will ALWAYS tell our kids that hard work pays off. "the harder i work the luckier i get". "Look at so and so, he was average in high school and now he is playing in college." "work harder, eyes on the prize, never give up". all are preached to every kid in every situation to attain greatness.

Greatness does not, however, come to everyone. it isn't fair, but the numbers still don't lie. Somebody IS going to attain greatness. THAT is why i bought the expensive bats and gloves (when i could), paid the travel team fees, (when i could) and paid the gas stations and hotel clerks my money (when i could).

because maybe, just maybe my kid is one of the lucky ones.
that is why we do it, and why this forum is so awesome. thanks to everyone for lots of great info.

btw, my son signed D1 2 weeks ago.
it was worth it.

Another great topic!

Yep, we did a lot of that too. Some was wasted, some was not. My wife made the best move of all when the boy was about 9 and plunking just about every batter in the league on a regular basis. Ouch!

"Some kids get piano lessons but I'm gonna get my son a pitching lesson cause I cannot stand to sit here and watch this anymore!" (Lots of confidence in his team's coach (me) - huh? ).

So the guy she hired did a great job and still works with him in off-season today. He was a college pitcher himself...but he told me about a year ago, "You know, your son was my first student and I was kind of 'guessing' about how to teach him to pitch better and it seemed to work out!"

Hole-y c.r.a.p!

I do not believe you "make a baseball player"----the studs are born-- you can take a good player and make him better just as you can with an average player---BUT nobody makes a ARod--give that credit to G O D

TRH, you are so right, "God given talent" is not just a catch phrase, is it?

it is how you develop it that leads to success.

"A fool and his money shall soon part." --Confucious

We have spent a good deal of money on equipment and travel, and not to mention time, during my sons baseball experience. And if he makes it to the college level and gets some kind of scholarship, we'd be lucky to break even dollar wise. But for all the time we've spent together playing catch,going to batting cages, or just talking on the way to and from games and tournaments, I'm way ahead. I wouldn't trade the special moments, both highs and lows, that we have shared, for all the money in the world

Yes...we spent oodles of $$ on baseball...especially when he turned 8.

Yes...I built the mound in the back yard and then had to move it back 10 feet when he got older.

Yes...we spent money on personal trainers starting in 9th grade...and it continues as he is in college.

Yes...we are paying big bucks to send him to a private D-III school where he can play (and starts), as opposed to FREE at the D-I where I work (in the same town as the D-III), where the former coach wouldn't even let him sniff a walk-on shot.

What have we done? Created a boat-load of memories along the way:
...that first travel tourney and game one win
...the nights of "dad, can we play catch"
...the fun times in the car driving 75 miles for a travel team practice
...the joy of seeing him add 11 pounds of muscle the winter before his 9th grade season
...the pleasure of seeing his hard work rewarded as a lightly regarded recruit earned a starting spot as a college freshman
...seeing him hose a guy at the plate to save a game with two outs in the bottom of the 9th in his first series
...a 4/5 day on my birthday...and him telling me "Happy Birthday" after the game.

You tell me...has it been worth it? Boy...HAS IT been worth it...every penny!

Fungo, You know I love you... BUT I hate the name of your thread! Why? Because I feel there are people out there trying to do just that. It just amazes me when I see parents that can't step back and realize that their trying to turn their kids into any particular "thing". lhpx2 and I had a conversation in another thread about music. I so desperately wanted a musician out of one of my kids. I did try to force the issue a couple of times, but was at least able to take a deep breath and realize that was my dream... not neither one of theirs.

While we've talked about providing our kids with the support and the tools they need to be able to compete, it sometimes seems like some folks lives must be consumed with a calendar with showcase events for the year listed, a separate bank account to pay for everything, the release date for the newest bat on the market, the web page of the kid they see as their kid's biggest competitor bookmarked on the computer, and regular emails to Jerry wanting some positive feedback on junior. I have said many times that I was a bit ignorant in raising my kids when it came to sports. I can look back though and say that they truly enjoyed the journey and we didn't live for any kind of agenda. Ignorance was bliss for us I suppose.

I am not too sure if we took a radical approach or not. We certainly have done things that many would consider going overboard. My guy started playing at 4 and played “park ball” only until he was 12, although it was year round. It was because he enjoyed it and had little to do with me, I wanted him to play Frisbee as I participated in Frisbee Tournaments on a regular basis back then. But he liked ball sports.

When he was about 11 we began taking him to a hitting instructor, because he could hit. That was extravagant in our area. Back then it was $25 for a half hour, which I split between two Son’s for an hour total. We would drive 80 miles to get there, go to the beach, and then come home maybe 3 times a month.

At 12 he played “Park ball” and AAU Travel Ball. At 13 he was Travel Ball only. I would buy him as good a glove and bat as I could afford and we continued to do hitting lessons and play Travel Ball within a 50 mile radius of home.

Not until he hit High School did we begin to do Showcases. And to date, he is a Senior, he has really only done 4 or 5 showcases. A Pro-Day as a Freshman, a Perfect Game Underclass as a Freshman, a Next Level Showcase as a Junior and a couple of Community College events as a Freshman and as a Senior.

He did step it up and he changed instructors and focused on the whole game and not just hitting. His weight room work-outs increased significantly and he began to take dietary supplements (Shaklee Protein Shakes) to add weight and bulk. He also began to play for Select Scout Teams in his Junior and Senior year which allowed him to participate in the PG BCS and WWBA Tournaments.

Now he is set to enjoy his senior season. His college choice is set and he can enjoy the season. I need to enjoy the season as well!

Bcb3 I think that is a given. I am sure we all had some of the greatest moments in our lives during the BB experience. Even if your son doesn't go too far it is still amazing but the money spent can get out of control. Many feel if they don't spend the money they don't have a chance at college ball and that isn't true. It certainly helps if you play on the top teams and go to the top tournaments but it is not absolutey necesary as long as your son is getting great training. Some times you have to make choices. We knew we wouldhave to do our own marketing and it worked out very well. The most we spent in a year was $2200. and most the time it was well under $2000. That was only for 4 years. The only one that can make your son a BB player is himself.

JT, you left out:

hey son, want to play some catch? as mine got older and had plenty of baseball with friends, games and practices, it was me who wanted the ball!

and you know what, he has never turned me down. therein lies another aspect of this wonderful journey we have been on, he still loves baseball.

if in all the time spent, (money doesn't matter)
the kid still loves what he does, then you know for sure it was all worth it.

bcb3, could not have said it better.

Fungo...I love the name of the thread. All the $$ and time we spent was to help MAKE JT, Jr into a ballplayer.

Reminds of back when my son was a catcher at about 9 yo. Like most kids that age he wasn't overly interested in the idea of blocking balls in the dirt. So I took him out and promised him a new video game if he could block 7 out of 10 balls thrown in the dirt. He managed to pull it off even though I really picked up the pace on my throws for the last few.

The next time we went out to practice I started throwing him balls in the dirt and he wasn't blocking them. I asked him why not? He said he wasn't going to do that without a video game on the line.

Although he continued to catch for another year or so we never seriously considered that to be his position again.

I spent a bunch of money on special stuff. I sent away for a speedball. I think it was $15. I could get it up to 80 MPH if I reached for it.



I went to the hardware store and made a soft toss screen out of galvanized steel fence posts and some netting I got on-line. I think that was about $50.

I bought one of those personal pitcher machines too. It worked pretty well and seemed to help, I like to think.



My wife seems to think it was money well spent, because my son and I used the stuff together. I agree.

When my son was nine he had his first pitching lesson. By accident I saw the report about a year later. It started out "stubborn 9yr old". At that time he knew it all. There weren't anymore lessons until about 13 when he realized there were people that could help him get better. Now, as a HS sophomore he listens and works hard on everything from core training, pitching, fielding, hitting. Along the way I only bought one expensive bat, we wound up giving it away. He hated it. Now, I still look for blemished bats.
Those car rides to tournaments, trips to Cooperstown and Omaha (where I was able to see friends and family), priceless.
My son and I are a lot closer than my father and me not because he wasn't a great father, he was but he worked nights to support us and I didn't see him very much.
Would I do it all over again? In a second, if he keeps going great, if it ended today it would be heart breaking but I wouldn't change it for a $1,000,000. And I don't think he would either. The only thing I regret and I am beginning to make it right. My daughter at 10 is showing an interest in softball. She's going to get a lot more time.

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
Fungo...I love the name of the thread. All the $$ and time we spent was to help MAKE JT, Jr into a ballplayer.

JT I don't regret a dollar or a moment spent with baseball. I just never did any of it to make son into something. I did it because it was his passion, our pastime, and something our family loved. I think there's a line there that people can easily get caught up in trying to make their child into something that he's not interested in or doesn't have the potential to be. I enjoyed every minute that baseball has brought to our lives.

When my son realized that pitching was going to be what took him to the next level I notice that having the latest baseball bat technology wasn't quite as important to him as it used to be. (even though he still plays a position and bats on his HS team)

One day when a bunch of the dads were talking about their sons new bats, one of them asked me what type of bat my son was using. I then realized his bat was almost 3 seasons old! Funny thing was he is one of the top hitters on the team and had the second highest home run total last year with his outdated 3 year old bat (okay it was only 5 HR’s but it makes for a better story). Go figure... maybe the equipment isn't what makes the player.

I was starting to feel pretty good about our savings until I realized we had probably put that much (or more) into pitching and conditioning sessions.

I guess the way I look at it is being a parent comes with a few financial obligations. For my daughter it’s was dance, for my son’s it’s seems to be baseball for them, as far as I am concerned funding their hobbies and dreams is part of the price of admission.

I spent a lot of money, but my only regret is that I don't have another kid in the pipeline to do it all over again with!

Maybe in 15-20 years, when my son is too busy, grandpa can take over?

I don't regret one dime I didn't spend and had the same wonderful experience' Great relationship and a son who plays D1 ball just like the guys who blew their brains out on BB. Played and worked out all year and played on up to 4 teams in a given year. We used to make a family trip out of the tournaments until the daughters didn't want to go anymore. I have videos from 9 yo tournaments up to before he went to college. We were just selective when we did something. No big showcases although I do think they are beneficial.
I know several guys who spend 7-10 thousand a year and many didn't get an offer from a college. I am sure they enjoyed the experience as well.

Midlo, if itching to spend some $$$, you can have one of mine for the summer. You choose: 10yr, 13yr, or 17yr. It's killing me!

Nope, wife says 10yr is off the table, but we will pay you to take 13yr!

ditto triple dad! got two guys playing travel and a dad that still likes to pitch a few games when he's not coaching*which is getting less and less*. Anyone looking to adopt us three?

I think I am going to change my signiture to "used to play a lot of golf!"

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
I think I am going to change my signiture to "used to play a lot of golf!"

I doubt you played more that I did B.B. (before baseball)

Often I think that having no $$$ as a single parent was the best thing that could have ever happened to us. We had a blast hunting for bargains, building things in our yard we could use to help develop skills, and some of our best memories are the "private lessons" I provided in the front yard hiding behind catcher's gear and a huge pillow with a base drawn on it while he practiced pitching!

quote:

Originally posted by puma1:
Often I think that having no $$$ as a single parent was the best thing that could have ever happened to us. We had a blast hunting for bargains, building things in our yard we could use to help develop skills, and some of our best memories are the "private lessons" I provided in the front yard hiding behind catcher's gear and a huge pillow with a base drawn on it while he practiced pitching!

Necessity is the mother of invention. We used balled up socks (out of the laundry basket) and a wiffle bat for after dinner indoor BP. We quit that after he went to college.

Those were the days...when the hardest decisions were who was going to chase the ball down the street, or how would we get the dog poop off our shoes!!

Dad04, I don't know bout that ...36 on Sat. 18 Sun. and at least 1 18 and and 1 9 during the week. Was shooting low 80's regularly, sometimes better, never could get scratch like some of my buds. Then, without my knowledge, it just went away, a fungo replaced my driver and thats all.
I might play once a year now, I miss it, but wouldn't trade the baseball with my boys for anything in the world....I will get back on those beautiful rolling hills and the misty greens in the morning some day, but for now......Baseball!!

how long til spring?

quote:

Originally posted by jerseydad:

For my daughter it’s was dance

We both have a pitcher and a dancer! I think we spent twice as much on dance than baseball.

Have said this before....
spending money because this is what you wanted to do for enjoyment is a given. Spending money on your kids and thinking you will get a great return on your investment doesn't always work out the way you planned.

We started out to make a player...
...but made a lifetime of memories, instead.

Midlo I feel the exact same way.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Midlo I feel the exact same way.

Likewise.

My older son's son is 8 and tries for a while. But his interests lie elsewhere. infidel_son was born with a passion for the game. It didn't need to be nurtured, just fed.