The most important lesson learned from HSBBW

sluggo, that's what it's all about. If it ain't fun, then why still do it?

I knew all along there wouldn't be a big scholarship waiting for me at the end of the tunnel.. well not athletically at least. High school sports were the most fun I've ever had collectively. I think high school sports are the most fun to watch. There are many there who know they won't play much longer, but they work hard because the LOVE the game and it is FUN to them.

High School athletics are the purest of all sports, IMO.

quote:

I think he will make a fine engineer

When we come to a fork in the road we have to take it.

My lesson was to know how many good, kind, and decent people there are in this country border to border and coast to coast.

Amazing the time and effort people will donate to help a fellow baseball " friend ". Great people!

There are too many wonderful lessons to mention, but here's one: baseball is about so much more than a glove, a ball, and a bat. It's about:

* perseverance
* learning to overcome failure
* mental toughness
* teamwork
* tenacity
* optimism
* hard work
* maintaining a proper persepctive
* self-discipline
* patience
* achieving goals
* preparation
* making wise choices
* resiliency
* dignity
* dealing with adversity and disappointment
* responding to success with class and grace
* time-management
* focus
* sacrifice
* humility
* intensity
* self-confidence
* and being a part of something larger than yourself

I think there is something we are all forgetting.

Most HS players are not playing to go onto the next level. Here you will find more interested because they have sat down and done a search regarding playing at the college level so we will find more parents and players posting here that are interested in finding out that information by reading and asking question. Some of us my find the questions stupid, but actually no question is silly or stupid, every question deserves an answer but remember every quesion will be answered most likely by opinion only based on past experience or information they have taken time to look up for someone else in the past.
I agree with sluggo. I myself find a lot of anxiety lately amoung parents and players that comes with playing at each level. Sometimes here, I am not sure whether it's more because the player really wants to succeed or the parents want them to succeed. My suggestion is, do what your player wants to do, let him make his decisions. They ususally know what's best for them. Guide them, don't force them.

I was never a pushy parent (beleive it or not) neither was my husband. If our kids wanted to do something and enjoyed it, than that was fine. If they didn't that was fine too. I didn't freak out when son said for one summer he didn't want to play any baseball. We let him do what he wanted and by fall he was back in practice and playing. That by no means meant he didn't still love the game, he just needed a break. The same thing happened at the end of his first year of college, he didn't want to go play summer baseball, he wanted to take another break. He worked, he slept late on weekends, he went fishing, swimming and whatever else kids do in the summer. It certainly didn't hurt him. it's just that he needed time to walk away, rejuvenate. He knew when he was tired mentally and physically he needed a rest. Baseball takes up lots of time in your day, in your week, in your month, in your year, each and every year. I suppose he needed those times to seperate himself from being just a kid from being a baseball player. Did it put him behind at times, yes. So what. He never lost site of his goal, he is moving the path he always intended. As a parent of a professional player, I can tell you that things change dramatically the day you sign on that dotted line. It's 24/7 baseball, you cherish the times that you might have to get in some nintendo, watch a basketball or baseball game on TV or just lie in your bed and think about nothing. It's your job and you know that you have to get up the next day and do it all over again. It's different than the demands of college, where you also are exhausted but have different things in your day besides baseball to occupy your time (even going to class).

Now don't get me wrong, not saying that he doesn't love what he's doing, but it's entirely different now, most of us have no idea what it all entails. I am very happy that along that path, he had fun and always did what he wanted to do, not what we wanted him to do. I think that prepared him better for the road he's going down.

Never lose sight of the fact that everything we do in life should be because we love to do it and that we enjoy doing it. This should be the main goal for players. The more fun you have in this game, the more you will want to play at the next level and succeed. And if by chance you don't end up as far as you or your parents would want, that's ok, because there are wonderful memories that come with each level that you play and there are many many more important things in life than baseball.

JMO.

I have to agree that if I had owned a crystal ball of some sort 3 years ago and I had known what my son would have to endure for the next 3 years for "his love of the game" I would have hid his cleats and glove after highschool graduation. I imagine to a normal person we do sound a little crazy--
How does my kid get seen?
What are coaches thinking?
Why isn't he getting more playing time?
What are college & pro scouts looking for?
etc, etc. But this is the road that our children have chosen for one reason or another and we as parents support them. I do know that there is alot more to my son than a baseball mit---he isn't just a dumb jock. He made the dean's list this semester with a 3.7GPA---And believe it or not he does play for the love of the game even through all the **** and will contnue to move forward to his adult life--whether it be in a baseball uniform or suit and tie. I guess it comes down to desire and how much they want it and are willing to work for it--whether it be an engineer, doctor, lawyer or Indian Chief. So until it no longer is fun to him--I will be that crazy parent that looks for answers to some of these questions, exchanges support on websites with the rest of the concerned parents, and prays on a daily basis that God keeps a watchful eye on him.---and remember those highschool days when everything was a little easier all the way around!

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:

quote:

I think he will make a fine engineer

When we come to a fork in the road we have to take it.

What kind of engineer would design a fork in the road?

.

Good post/thread. To add...

While there are some exceptions, my decades of experience with the process tell me that the following most always hold true...

...That REALY loving the competition, the play, the teamwork, the struggle, is the engine that drives athletes as much as a desire to reach "next level". You take that joy away by limiting the sports they have a passion to play, or empahsizing the "got screwed" aspect, or turning it to muhc into a job and you risk losing the engine...without joy you have nothing. Whole Lotta kids out there right now playing with no joy.

...That if a player truly has what it takes...talent, passion, dedication, he will find his way...or a way will find him..."scripting" it is not as valuable as many have come to believe...

...Some manage to "cheat" the system but it is temporary...and the higher you go the less that holds true...In the end athletics is still predominantly driven by talent and passion not politics...

...Perserverence outlasts politics...the world is full of players who busted the norms, and got thought the barriers on guts and will and perseverence...and we all cherish these stories..

...That there is real joy in working hard and testing yourself to achieve a goal...and there is real value in that effort, in the lessons learned...not only in the result, as long it is a PLAYERS dream and PLAYERS passion...

Finally...

...I'll take this discussion a step further...in the end...it is not about numbers, or titles, or money, or fame, or grades per se...or being a professional player, or even being a an engineer...in the end it is all about being the best human being you can be. Sport can and should be part of that process. For in the end it is all about humanity and soul.

Happy Easter!

44
.

Observer44-I am going to pass on what you wrote to my son. Thank-you and Happy Easter!

Ditto Observer44!!!

You didn't hide his cleats and glove and that's what's important.

I don't find the answers to the points you mentioned difficult to find answers.

How do does a player get seen? That depends on where you live and how you approach going forward to the next level. The answer is different for everyone and depends on talent level and where he wants to play. If you are a player from the midwest wanting to play south, you have to get your exposure in the south. It take planning. Then when considering options, you have to look for options within those options. Options for pitchers are better than for position players.

What are coaches thinking? They are thinking they want to put teh best team together to win games with what resources they have to work with (money). And it's dependent on needs. You may be a great ss, but they don't need one at the school where you want to play for a few years, so I suggest move on if you want to play.
Why isn't he getting more playing time? Lots of answers to this, someone is better, someone there longer, you went in over your head in the level you chose to play at. Why sit at a large D1 when you can play at a smaller one.

What are college coaches and pro scouts looking for. College coaches all have different needs, they want players who can contribute right away and some who will contribute down the road (maybe not until junior or senior year). They are looking for what they need. They don't all need 35 top prospects to fill those needs. Most college rosters are filled by players that can play at the college level they are at. Not superstars. They need some who lead and some who take direction, not all indians and not all chiefs.
Pro scouts look for players who at their current ability show the talent and tools to get to MLB within teh time frame expected. And needs, most needs are based on future potential. A talented HS player with much room to grow still is much more desired than the college player fully grown and a few years away from what they consider their cut off. However the successful college player with experience may be needed faster than the HS player with more upside that needs 3-4 years in training.
And they want healthy players. Unless you are a top prospect, that injury means that you have to prove you can beat the odds. For pitchers TJS is favored as a past injury over those with shoulder issues.

PG made a great point in another post, luck plays a HUGE part in the game, at every level, just being there in the right time can turn a bench player into an everyday starter, a current player turns pro, doesn't show up, or is drafted and leaves junior year. But I wouldn't relie on that for more playing time. But it does happens often.

Thje more you try to look into the crystal ball teh more difficult it becomes.

Hope that this helps.

44---As one who was one credit shy of a Philosophy minor in college (didn't know, or I would have taken it!), I'm gonna tell you that you rank right up there as one of the greatest philosophers of our time! I'd MUCH rather read what you write than read most of what the old guys wrote!

quote:

and baseball, stop the pressure on him to play more, work harder, be seen. Let him be a kid and let him look back on his high school days and remember the joy. I think he will make a fine engineer and all of you wonderful (and more than

You've been misled. I can't believe after reading all these posts that you came to this conclusion.
I believe those successful people all have one thing in common, they all had big ambitions when they were young. Ichiro suzuki once wrote an assay at age 11, stated that he wants to be a baseball star when he grows up. Even when he was struglling at Japanese minor league, he never gave up, he worked harder than everyone, he finally became a super star in Japan, now he is one of the best hitter in the world. If his Dad told him to have fun playing baseball. He would be a wasted talent for sure. If you got the God given talent, than dream big, work hard. You will be the "one". Unless playing Major League baseball is not your dream.

From physical point of view, we can find thousands of kids better than Ichiro, but in MLB we can't find a lot Ichiro-type of players, why? I guess those talented kids who might think they were too small or too slim to be a major leaguer, and gave up too early. Or they might have been listening to a Dad like you, just tried to have fun playing baseball, and forgot the hard work part......

JMHO

coachbwww,
I will read your post, and even though I do not agree with what you said on many many levels, ( and it is my belief that you may not have quite gotten the point that O44 was trying to convey ) I will accept your opinion without INSULTING you or condeming you for your opinion.
I would like to suggest that you follow that same courtesy when posting to others as well.

Moving on,.....
Some of us believe one can work hard AND have fun at the same time.
( otherwise what is the point? )

Some of us believe life is too short NOT to enjoy it.
And having that opinion does not mean our children or ourselves will not be successful.

coachbwww,

Why can't having fun and enjoying what you do... include working hard to reach your goals?

In fact, isn't someone likely to work harder at the things they enjoy the most?

Coachbwww
Because maybe Sluggo's son has a goal other than baseball.

quote:

Let him be a kid and let him look back on his high school days and remember the joy.

Bingo! If your son starts to really blossom in baseball he'll can always adjust his path. Besides, it's your son's path, not yours. Whether he choses to attempt the path to become a pro baseball player or engineer it's is his decision. Neither is an unhealthy decision as long as he gets an education in the process.

My son plays three high school sports. Would he be a better baseball player if he quit s****r or basketball and spent an offseason focused on baseball training? Maybe, maybe not. But I want him to look back on high school as an enjoyable time, not one where his father drove him nuts helping him meet some destination desired more by me than him. I figure he feels it's necessary to drop a sport to improve baseball skills for college ball that can happen when he's a junior or senior. When he's deciding on college the decision will be at least 90% academic.

quote:

Originally posted by coachbwww:

quote:

and baseball, stop the pressure on him to play more, work harder, be seen. Let him be a kid and let him look back on his high school days and remember the joy. I think he will make a fine engineer and all of you wonderful (and more than

You've been misled. I can't believe after reading all these posts that you came to this conclusion.
I believe those successful people all have one thing in common, they all had big ambitions when they were young. Ichiro suzuki once wrote an assay at age 11, stated that he wants to be a baseball star when he grows up. Even when he was struglling at Japanese minor league, he never gave up, he worked harder than everyone, he finally became a super star in Japan, now he is one of the best hitter in the world. If his Dad told him to have fun playing baseball. He would be a wasted talent for sure. If you got the God given talent, than dream big, work hard. You will be the "one". Unless playing Major League baseball is not your dream.

From physical point of view, we can find thousands of kids better than Ichiro, but in MLB we can't find a lot Ichiro-type of players, why? I guess those talented kids who might think they were too small or too slim to be a major leaguer, and gave up too early. Or they might have been listening to a Dad like you, just tried to have fun playing baseball, and forgot the hard work part......

JMHO

The "I dreamed it, it was a passion and it happened" stories are very nice. However, 99% of all aspiring MLB players had the same dream and passion and didn't make it.

Coachwww has his opinons and entitled to it, no one has to agree. Posters can take what they want from a person, weed out the good opinions and answers from the useless ones.

He most likely won't come back to answer your question either PG.

RJM: Focus on the positive side. I found there were way too many negative posts here. If your career goal is making to the Major league and you focus on the 99% won't make it, then you'd better qiut it right now. Let the kid be focus and work hard to be the 1%, then he would have more fun for achieving that goal.

I have to say, a lot of parents are too easy with their kids. Sometimes it turns out to be very bad for the kid. For example, there're Ivy-league colleges for the kids who want be successful in academic. There're also jobs working in the Mcdanold's after HS. As a parent, which would you recommend to your kids? Would you say, "Hey, Kid, have fun in school, according to the odds, there are only 1% of kids graduated from the "Ivy", I wiil not give you any pressure, I don't care whatever you want be in the future, Just enjoy the party while you are in school."

I am not that kind of Dad. No way.

quote:

Just enjoy the party while you are in school."

I am not that kind of Dad. No way.

What I discern from all your posts is if a kid has a goal and fails, he is a failure.

I don't want my son to look back on high school and think of it as a time where he remembers his father mentally beating him to death to be something particular whether it's to attend an Ivy League school or be a professional baseball player. Besides he has to want a goal to acheive it. While I enjoy my kid's successes I'm not going to live through them. I've had my opportunties and successes.

I remind my son it's important to put forth his best effort. He aspires to play baseball and possibly s****r at an Ivy. But if he goes to Timbuktu State and becomes a successful professional in his field of choice, a good person, a good husband and a good parent, he will not have been a failure. He will be a major success.

I've been through much of the process with my oldest. I never would have guessed until she was a sophomore in high school she was college athletic material. I also didn't think she cared. She came to be recruited in two sports. She's now playing major conference softball at a school where her major is one of the best programs in the country. All I ever told her was to be the best she could be. I didn't push her.

Both my kids have/had fun in high school. They also make/made sacrifices along the way due to sports. I'd say they've found balance.

quote:

Originally posted by coachbwww:
a lot of parents are too easy with their kids. Sometimes it turns out to be very bad for the kid.

A lot of parents are too hard with their kids, too. And that can be just as bad for the kid---or even worse.....

Depends how you look at things. School, IMO is a lot more important than baseball.
Yes you have to work VERY hard to get to MLB. Odds are stacked against you and you CAN beat those odds, while having fun along the way.

Parental pressure doesn't work, parental guidance does.

JMO.

Reading all these posts.
First for sluggo: fun is a very important part of the game, and the education is extremely important. And I agree with what you say.
Coach Bwww, I think the hard part of what you are saying or how I am interpreting it is that You say you are not the kind of dad who will not push your son to go on.
For my family I could not push my son to do the things he does. he wants to go to the gym three times a week before school. He is 18 now, I cant push him to get out of bed at 5am to work out.Our house would be hell if we pushed that hard.
Like Bob sanders said there are those that will not play after HS and it should be lots of fun, but some of us have boys that have a passion and determination to take it to the next level.
It is their dream, becuase as TPM says a lot its not all fun and games at the next level, or at the level her son is at. Its hard work.If the player doesnt have that inner mechanism that strives to persevere in this type of situation they wotn make it no matter how hard the parent pushes.
There have been times I have nagged my son about grades or doing his long toss etc, but for the most part this is his goal. We have helped however we can but I think not all of us are pushing our kids to play the next level. Its our sons pulling us along trying to make it to the next level. so we get on this site and ask for help to help them succeed or find ways to help with the recruitment process.
I think if i had to push at this point in the game it would be no fun,its the players that push themselves and persevere, its an inner drive that no parent, coach can bring out of a kid, its something inside. And they might fail, but that inner drive and work ethic will carry over to the reat of their life when baseball is over.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Coachwww has his opinons and entitled to it, no one has to agree. Posters can take what they want from a person, weed out the good opinions and answers from the useless ones.

He most likely won't come back to answer your question either PG.

TPM is right IMO.

We are all entitled to our opinions - as long as they dont break the rules of the HSBBWEB.

My opinion - after reading the coachwww stuff - is that it is all about him - and not his son.

RJM: When I was in graduate school, I got a very strict advisor, He always wants everything to be perfect. He gave me one advice that benefited me for my whole life, he told me "Some people you push them hard, they would fall; but some people you push them hard they would excel, I hope you are the later."

I wish you know what kind of person your son is. But remember not everyone will fall after a hard push. For being an "easy" Daddy, you may just give away the chance for your son to Excel.

There's nothing to be shamed of admiting faliure, why are you so sensitive with the word "loser"? In the real life, you win some, you lose some, there's nothing to be shamed about it. I would never say I were a "winner" if I lost to my competition.

As far as baseball we never pushed, ever. He did what he had to do all on his own. Did he love practice, nope, but he never missed one. Did he love sitting the bench game after game until his start, nope. Did we remind him to go to the gym, no. Did I have to wake him early on a saturday when he wanted to sleep for practice, never. Did I have to remind him to do homework, never. Did we want him to be happy in what he was doing, yup.

If he wanted to be a baseball player he was going to do it, with guidance, not parental prodding and pleading and pressure.

Fanofgame is correct, you have to have that inner mechanism that strives to persevere,no amount of pleading or pressure is going to change that.

Every player is different, every parent parents differently because kids are different. You give your kids the opportunity to fall in love with and play the game, it's up to them to make it work.

coachwww,

My son had a pitching coach that pushed the heck out of him. He was very instrumental in his development. There is nothing wrong with that, that was his job. As a parent, I felt it was my responsisbility to provide opportunities, not just in baseball. There's teh difference.

I agree iitg, it's all him. We can usually pick them out pretty quickly. I also find the ones who come here all about them, learn to adjust when their sons go off on their own.

JMO.

I am reading everyone's thoughts on the subject and all the different takes and I guess I forgot to mention that a big part of what is going on with us is that the football coaches are stealing away my baseball player's time and his heart.

quote:

Originally posted by coachbwww:
RJM: When I was in graduate school, I got a very strict advisor, He always wants everything to be perfect. He gave me one advice that benefited me for my whole life, he told me "Some people you push them hard, they would fall; but some people you push them hard they would excel, I hope you are the later."

I wish you know what kind of person your son is. But remember not everyone will fall after a hard push. For being an "easy" Daddy, you may just give away the chance for your son to Excel.

There's nothing to be shamed of admiting faliure, why are you so sensitive with the word "loser"? In the real life, you win some, you lose some, there's nothing to be shamed about it. I would never say I were a "winner" if I lost to my competition.

Am I supposed to be impressed you went to grad school? I have a Masters. You have no idea what kind of father I am. I have two very successful kids relative to their stages in life (high school and college). That is unless you consider 4.0 gpa's losing. I get the sense you are a pushy, overbearing dad based on your comments. I picture you as the dad a kid fears riding home with after a below average performance.

I don't equate losing with being a loser. Loses are speed bumps on the way to success. Losing can be a learning experience. You don't lose when you fall down. You lose when you chose not to get up.

It's only fair you have a rebutal. But, unless there's something thought provoking I'm done with this conversation.

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
.

Good post/thread. To add...

While there are some exceptions, my decades of experience with the process tell me that the following most always hold true...

...That REALY loving the competition, the play, the teamwork, the struggle, is the engine that drives athletes as much as a desire to reach "next level". You take that joy away by limiting the sports they have a passion to play, or empahsizing the "got screwed" aspect, or turning it to muhc into a job and you risk losing the engine...without joy you have nothing. Whole Lotta kids out there right now playing with no joy.

...That if a player truly has what it takes...talent, passion, dedication, he will find his way...or a way will find him..."scripting" it is not as valuable as many have come to believe...

...Some manage to "cheat" the system but it is temporary...and the higher you go the less that holds true...In the end athletics is still predominantly driven by talent and passion not politics...

...Perserverence outlasts politics...the world is full of players who busted the norms, and got thought the barriers on guts and will and perseverence...and we all cherish these stories..

...That there is real joy in working hard and testing yourself to achieve a goal...and there is real value in that effort, in the lessons learned...not only in the result, as long it is a PLAYERS dream and PLAYERS passion...

Finally...

...I'll take this discussion a step further...in the end...it is not about numbers, or titles, or money, or fame, or grades per se...or being a professional player, or even being a an engineer...in the end it is all about being the best human being you can be. Sport can and should be part of that process. For in the end it is all about humanity and soul.

Happy Easter!

44
.

Very nice ob44

The engineeer part will lead to a very rewarding life. I am an engineer and the young man is free to call or write if he ever wants to learn just how fun it is.

quote:

I don't equate losing with being a loser. Loses are speed bumps on the way to success. Losing can be a learning experience. You don't lose when you fall down. You lose when you chose not to get up.

Well said.....

You only lose when don't give your best effort--If you get BEAT and gave your best effort you did not lose--you just got beat today

I learned that TRhit is more like this and this than this .

You only lose when you accept defeat. You only lose when you stop trying to win. You only lose when you dont do your absolute best to win. As long as you can say you tried as hard as you could, never quit and did all you could you will are a winner.

Coach May - So very true.

I can only imagine - after a tough loss - telling my eldest son that he was a loser.

He would most likely try to punch my lights out - and deservedly so. IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by sluggo:
I love baseball, I really do. I have my Colt 45s Fan Club Card from 1962. If I changed my name it would be Annie Savoy. My son is an above average player, who has the potential to be better, really all the tools. So what is the problem? He loves football and baseball and he plays for fun, not for "the next level".Am I alone here? How do I handle this?

My son plays baseball, football, basketball and wrestles. I would say he is above average in all 4. He broke my wife's heart this past year when he told us he played his "last basketball game" That's fine. It was his decision. My wife played in hs/college and would of loved for him to stick with it but it just wasn't fun for him any more.

2 years ago he told me he wanted to stop wrestling to concentrate on baseball.Two days after wrestling ended, he said he missed it and is still wrestling. If he decides to stop, so be it. I have heard some parents in our town say "make them do it"? Never understood that logic. They have the rest of the lives to work, Why make sports a job at this level.

RJM: Considering all those video games I played with my son, and all those homeworks I helped him get done, I don't think my son never feared of me for one day in his life. I am his best buddy and also his furious competitor. I can use all the bad words toward him after a bad game. He won't argue with me as long as I am right. For example, if I have pointed out to him the ref will call the mid-outside corner for strike , and he got a KO by a called 3rd strike for that perticular pitch. I would yell at him right away, "Stupid, what the **** are you thinking?" He would say "I am sorry, that's my fault". No hard feeling, we are here to win, he knows I am with him all the way.

OK, enough said, RJM, I made my point clear like crystal. I am off this topic too.

TPM, your son is a Natural. Too bad I am just that kind of Dad, who would involve with his son's life everyday as long as he is still under 18. I think I own him on every aspect of life. He won't be free until he beat me in every game of life, until I admit I am a loser to him, give him a bear hug and congratulate him "Son, you win". I wish this day come sooner.