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Bear with me here.

Lots of time is spent here regarding discussion about the NCAA, new baseball rules, and recently, does it matter where you attend undergraduate school.
As far as the new rules regarding baseball, there are many here that feel that they are unfair and I often think, why? I may be off base, but my conclusion is that most of our players (whether you want to admit it or not) who attend college do so with the thought that it may further our sons career as professional baseball players, not as productive educated adults after they graduate. I don't find this among parents of basketball or football players, or any other sport for that matter. I may be off base, but it seems to push a lot of buttons for parents, the unfairness of not being able to transfer, small scholarships, etc.
Someone pointed something out recently, if you want a full ride, MLB gladly pays.
Everyone has different reasons for attending college, but sometimes we lose sight of the real PURPOSE of going to college. To further ones education AND get a degree.
My husband, a graduate in art education with a masters in art design, is one of those who never stops going to school for one reason or another. A certified trainer, financial planner and Registered Investment Advisor also spends a lot of his free time in developing products or ideas and recently in a project that has involved contact with young business entrepreneurs. These entreprenuers are all graduates and most with masters degrees. All have attended different types of programs, smallest to largest and many in between. The one thing that they all have in common, they all used their athletic skills to help them to get admitted to school and help pay for their education, from baseball, to football, to golf to track and field. Their degrees vary from education, business to engineering to graphic design to health science. All are employed. All under 25.Some still involved with their sport in other capacities other than professionals, one former baseball player a marathon runner. Some went in with hopes that maybe they would become professional athletes, but most realized very shortly that was a long shot and concentrated on what they felt was most important, obtaining their degree. They all claim, if it were not for the NCAA that they doubt they would have gotten into the school they preferred, any school or had to take another alternative due to finances with the rising cost of education. All extremely talented, some also struggled in college at first.
Why am I bringing this up? IMO, I don't think that parents really understand this. They seem to be more concerned that their player doesn't get enough playing time, and often encourage their players to make a change, which in turn creates a shortage, which means they lose credits which further puts them back on track to graduation. I do admit it is nice to have that choice, unfortunetly with the lack of transfer rules in place, graduation expections fell further and further which forced the NCAA to impose those rules. The working groups philososphy, go to school to get an education and plan to graduate or go play pro ball. The examples above prove that participating in a sport will help you, but the object is to GRADUATE.
I do understand at this time that son does not have his degree, however he is almost there, with money from MLB to finish the task. That does make it a lot easier. Did we send our player to school to improve his chances to play beyond college, yes and no. Yes because that was his choice and no because we wanted him to have the total college experience and work towards a degree in case he needed it someday. No you do not need a degree to be successful, but in this competitive world and the need to make more $$, that degree helps. My daughter has a great job with a great company, because she is not have a degree her earning potential is lower than those that do.
Has it worked out for son (college before proball), who can say yes or no at this time, some think yes, maybe not, he has a long way to go yet in his life before the jury is in. The one good thing, for him, IMO, is that he can return and in one year or less finish the job he went to college for.
My purpose of this thread, let's stop bashing the NCAA and understand their purpose. Let's stop bashing what school is better than another, that's a personal decision and all have their own opinions but never lose sight of why you are headed in that direction, to get an education. Understand that some people, though we don't all agree, have different priorities and opinions. Present your opinions in a helpful way, not harmful. Accept your son's experience for what it is and should be, no matter where he goes. If you feel that baseball gets in the way (missing classes, etc) then why is your son playing baseball and going to college at teh same time, let him decide what is more important and stop complaining, most likely he IS able to handle all that is on his plate, but we as parents, because we are worry warts can't. Sit back and enjoy your son's accomplishments on the field in the classroom, ot just on the field or just in the classroom. and accept what the purpose of attending XYZ university is all about. If your son has no desire to handle both at the same time, don't let him do it, then let him go off to play pro ball if he gets the opportunity because it is going to be very challenging regardless of where he decides to attend. The happiest player is the one that knows he made a good choice for himself and never looks back, no matter where he ends up. Stop obssesing that you feel your son is better than his options given, chances are they are not,or you haven't done your homework, stop obsessing he may be too small, too heavy, stop obsessing that his dream D1 didn't sign him, stop obsessing he doesn't throw 90 or hit a dozen HR's per year. Stop obsessing that only one scout stepped into your home and the neighbor had all 30 teams. Only control what you can and what you cannot.

The purpose of this post, just to illustrate how important any sport can be in determing your career future, no matter which one you play, that the whole purpose of this recruiting process why we send out kids off to tournies and showcases and shouldn't always be to become a future pro athlete but to help further your education and should be approached as such and whatever else comes along is bonus to your future. I am thinking back to what Jerry said, if you choose to go to college to solely further your baseball career, that may not be the right decision.
This is the way I look at it, if your son gets drafted or signs and decides to go play proball, and is not happy, sits the bench, gets injured he has NO options to transfer. He can beg for a release, hope he gets picked up somewhere else, and can get cut at anytime. He is owned, he has no say in anything until, in 6 years he can become a FA. If he is lucky and wants out, he may get traded, but do know that bad players don't get traded, good players do. I don't hear anyone complaining much about that system.
Consider all options and try to define goals, while you can, not when you can't.
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Some kids (and parents) use athletics as their way of getting an education. They use the amount of scholly money to help pay for an education they might not otherwise be able to afford. I would bet there are more parents hoping their kids play college ball because of the financial support they get for college more than those who think their kids will play pro ball. Because tuition has shot up over forty percent over the last three years, many well deserving students are denied a higher level education unless they want to be strapped with mountains of debt after graduation.
quote:
Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
I would bet there are more parents hoping their kids play college ball because of the financial support they get for college more than those who think their kids will play pro ball.


I hope that this would be correct, but often times not.
Great Topic TPM-

Following up on what TAB said:

I'm not sure how most posters feel or if all would be completely honest but, I can honestly say when my son was younger and showed a little bit of talent in baseball, I never felt or do I feel today that he was gonna play pro ball. What I hoped was that (A) he enjoyed baseball and (B) maybe, just maybe he would be talented enough to get a scholarship and help pay for an education. Not in my wildest dreams did I ever think that he would become the student that he did and get the academic money, and then still have enough talent to get baseball money as well.

My thoughts today are the same. While we now know that he is capable both academically and athletically to receive some sort of aide, I hope he gets better at both so it will soften the cushion of any costs I might have to pay and not because I want or feel he can play pro ball.

More importantly, my son understands the value of an education and realizes that his chances of playing beyond college are very slim. He knows he is there for an education first and baseball is the funside to that education. I guess that' what really matters.
Last edited by Danny Boydston
I am a proponent of education. I am a proponent of sports and education. I am a product of the system. I was able to receive an education as a result of my athletic ability. I entered college with one goal and left with another. I was exposed to a world I would not have otherwise known. I also transfered and took a while to find my perfect fit. Education is the silver bullet that cures a number of societies ills.

I also see the benefit of following one's dreams and if given the opportunity to jump at it. There is never a time in life when it is to late to go back to school. Millions of people have gone back to school later in life when the have chased a dream, served their country, raised a family or just realized the value of education. We all come from different places on the college v. professional baseball issue. Just make sure that any decision is well reasoned and based on good information.

As for the NCAA, I will not defend them in any way shape or form. There rules are archaic, dictatorial and designed for the benefit of the institution, not the student athlete. The NCAA owns you in the same manner that a MLB club owns you. In some respects even more so. At least if I excel in the minors, and make the name on the back of the jersey marketable, I can benefit and profit from my hard work not the institution. The opportunities would still exist for athletes to get a free education with a system other than the NCAA and maybe even more students could avail themselves to the billions made each year from intercollegiate athletics.
quote:
Originally posted by deldad:
I am a proponent of education. I am a proponent of sports and education. I am a product of the system. I was able to receive an education as a result of my athletic ability. I entered college with one goal and left with another. I was exposed to a world I would not have otherwise known. I also transfered and took a while to find my perfect fit. Education is the silver bullet that cures a number of societies ills.
A on all counts

I also see the benefit of following one's dreams and if given the opportunity to jump at it. There is never a time in life when it is to late to go back to school. Millions of people have gone back to school later in life when the have chased a dream, served their country, raised a family or just realized the value of education. We all come from different places on the college v. professional baseball issue. Just make sure that any decision is well reasoned and based on good information.
Isn't it funny that many times our kids don't realize that the best advise comes from across the kitchen table. Great point Deldad

As for the NCAA, I will not defend them in any way shape or form. There rules are archaic, dictatorial and designed for the benefit of the institution, not the student athlete. The NCAA owns you in the same manner that a MLB club owns you. In some respects even more so. At least if I excel in the minors, and make the name on the back of the jersey marketable, I can benefit and profit from my hard work not the institution. The opportunities would still exist for athletes to get a free education with a system other than the NCAA and maybe even more students could avail themselves to the billions made each year from intercollegiate athletics.
This is where I kind of disagree. The way I see it the NCAA gave my son an education at a discount beyond belief, put him in situations that very few people get to experience, provided a stage to showcase his skills, marketed him at no cost, and provided Mom/Dad a sense of security that he will stay on the straight road while in school. Yes, in the big picture the rules may seem one sided, but when you're the only show in town....you make the rules. Is it morally right...probably not...is it good business.....depends on your view of business practices. But the bottom line is does it help college athletes reach there goals? I'm putting two other kids through college now and boy do I wish I had the NCAA to take advantage of me.
Last edited by rz1
quote:
I may be off base, but my conclusion is that most of our players (whether you want to admit it or not) who attend college do so with the thought that it may further our sons career as professional baseball players, not as productive educated adults after they graduate. I don't find this among parents of basketball or football players, or any other sport for that matter.
You're off base. Football and basketball players will look even deeper at the sports program than a baseball player. The football and basketball player will look at the style (offense, defense) the program plays to best promote his skills to the professional level.

A good example is a kid we have here in PA. He's the top football recruit in the country. He may be the next Vince Young. He hasn't signed yet. He said he has to visit Penn State. A college football pundit said the kid must have relatives who attended PSU since the style of play doesn't fit his potential. He should be at Michigan (WVU's offense will be implemented) or Oregon to best promote his skills.
Deldad, good post.

However, like rz I have to say the same. That archaic and dictorial NCAA gave my son the same opportunities and he had no complaints. And gave us great memories, and yes, sometimes you don't realize just how bad something may not be until you don't have it anymore.
Every D1 NCAA team (I am not sure if it is in every divsion) appoints a player representative to attend meetings and address issues regarding the student athlete and how the NCAA can imporve upon their experience. My son was a representative and beleive it or not a few of their concerns have been addressed. They do listen, they may not always act but they listen.
Someone stated here that if the NCAA wants to make professionals of their students why aren't they able to be represented by agents. I argued that point, the purpose of the NCAA is NOT to make you a professional athlete, their purpose is to provide you an opportunity to play sports and get an education and all of the above rz stated. That should not be confused with what one particular school your son or daughter attends wants, they have different goals. Churning out pro athletes is important to many, it helps in recruiting in any sport, that's the bottom line.

I just think we should give them a break, regardless of whether what we see is right or wrong. You kind of have to go with the flow. It's hard to understand that, but easier after the opportunity is no longer there.
quote:
Originally posted by RJM:
quote:
I may be off base, but my conclusion is that most of our players (whether you want to admit it or not) who attend college do so with the thought that it may further our sons career as professional baseball players, not as productive educated adults after they graduate. I don't find this among parents of basketball or football players, or any other sport for that matter.
You're off base. Football and basketball players will look even deeper at the sports program than a baseball player. The football and basketball player will look at the style (offense, defense) the program plays to best promote his skills to the professional level.

A good example is a kid we have here in PA. He's the top football recruit in the country. He may be the next Vince Young. He hasn't signed yet. He said he has to visit Penn State. A college football pundit said the kid must have relatives who attended PSU since the style of play doesn't fit his potential. He should be at Michigan (WVU's offense will be implemented) or Oregon to best promote his skills.


RJM,
You probably are right, we all know about football and basketball recruiting. However, out of 80 players on a football team, a few a year maybe will go on to play proball, and they HAVE to attend college first. This does change the importance of the educational experience.

JMO.
Rz1 and TPM I believe that your respective universities gave your young men the opportunties they enjoyed not the NCAA. The Universities recruited them and footed the bill. The NCAA is just the big brother that oversees the awarding of those benefits.

I am a dreamer, an idealist. I think that so many more kids could have even greater opportunities if it were run in a more efficient and democratic manner. Any time we are confronted with a monopoly, I think it is our duty to question and push that entity to be of greater benefit to society not to the entity itself. Just because it is the only game in town doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve it.

As far as accepting the rules of the game, I understand that concept but fighting for change to right a wrong is what makes this country great. If over the last 100 years everybody would have believed in the status quo, where would we be as a society.

I believe that change is on the horizon, we have not had that event occur which takes public opinion over the tipping point. To much power and money in one place.
Deldad,
Correct, they got the financial opportunity to play from the school, the NCAA provided the rules and tournament venues.
Some of those rules aren't so terrible. Forcing son to have a required GPA (which I feel should be higher) was rule #1.
Times are changing, business monopolies went out years ago (though this trend seems to be reversing again) and i too think change is on the horizon. In this particualr case (new baseball rules) teh sleeping giant got a bit unhappy, make him happy and they might relent). That takes hard work on everyones part.
I don't know, I just don't think it's that terrible. It is what it is. Same way with milb, it's not easy, but it is what it is and to get through it you have to accept it and love it or not do it at all. JMO.
We all have agendas and priorities in stopping "injustice" and Deldad I agree with every point you've made. The NCAA is a machine, with full time moving parts, a huge wallet, and voiceful alliances. Most folks that on our side of the fence are there for 4 years and then gone and all that remains is hot air. I feel the two stoppers that faces the NCAA in the future are the "bluehairs" themselves, and the ability of the smaller conferences to form a coalition against the mighty few. Until then we pick our small battles and as tr says, adapt to, and make the best out of what you have.

It sounds like a defeatist attitude but I think this is a battle of attrition where dwindling athletic budgets at the small school level will eventually force the hand of "Mr Big".
Last edited by rz1
You're right about that Rz1, it is a lot of hot air in 99.99% of the cases. Me being one of the producers. The small conference thing is interesting. I guess the big guys throw just enough money at the little guys to keep them happy. With the appearance money and game money they make in football and basketball it keeps most small programs afloat. Having to go and get your butt kicked as a means to keep your program afloat seems a little demeaning. Also, produces great moments, like App St. v. Mich. but that is the exception not the rule.

Trhit posted the other day about the transfer kid from Michigan. It will be interesting to see if he hires a lawyer. I understand that complaining about the NCAA is like spitting in the wind and I am not naive enough to think that without some earthshattering events it will ever change, but I just cannot bring myself to credit the NCAA.

There was a post a while back that talked about a congressman who had issued a subpoena to the NCAA about their mission statement and their finances. Amazingly there were no hearings, and very little information. Suddenly we get a settlement that establishes a fund that can be used to supplement the scholarship, upon a showing of need. It sounds as if the lobbying efforts of the NCAA and the money associated with it has found its way into the pockets of a few of our elected officals.

Is that to cynical? or just politics as usual?
quote:
There was a post a while back that talked about a congressman who had issued a subpoena to the NCAA about their mission statement and their finances.

It sounds like congressional hearings without the "bling" or "just politics as usual".

All of these "student reps" advising committees, watchdog groups are nothing but smoke-n-mirrors and my only knowledge is sons respect for the NCAA and for what he feels they have done for him. Some will say "what does he know, he's only a kid" but I have watched his "show me" attitude for years, respected, and know that his opinions are not "off the cuff" but thought out, and are as close to first hand as I can find.
Last edited by rz1
Not me, just though son's experiences. Smile He didn't seem to have any issues.

Did you not enjoy your experience?

I understand your reasoning, there are many things that are wrong with the way the NCAA does business.

Our son's have taken different paths to their future. One way doesn't make another better. I was just trying to point out here that the college decision should not always be based upon your future in regards to playing probaseball.
I had a great time at my university. I received no benefit from the NCAA. That is the point I am trying to make is that the NCAA does nothing for the student/athlete, give the credit to the universities, the athletic departments and the coaches.

I agree 100% that college baseball should not be another level of minor league baseball. It should be about education first.
The NCAA is not perfect. What regulatory body made up of human beings assigned the task of overseeing a multi-million dollar industry [college sports] is.

However, where would we be if there was no organization overseeing and regulating this industry. Would Notre Dame still be the only college football team you could watch on TV on saturday during football season? Would there be baseball programs with rosters of 60-70 players who competed with each other for minimal or no money? Would there be any men's sports at a lot of DI major colleges except football?

Someone has to be in charge. In such circumstances, change comes very slowly but eventually it will come. The important point for me is that the recent changes in the baseball NCAA rules and regulations shows the ATTEMPT on the part of the NCAA to help the student/athletes out rather than the colleges. We might argue over whether it will turn out to be a brilliant brainstorm or a moronic mistake but, at least, change is being sought for the right reasons.

TW344

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