the realities of minor league baseball

YUP pretty accurate about life in the minors. But the real minor league life is way more entertaining

I wonder if he gave back the $22,500 bonus when he quit?

Well, i have yet to experience the long bus trips, but so far for me minor league ball isnt bad at all. Its a lot of fun,and the guys i have talked to from upper levels said it isnt that bad at all. But i'll just have to wait and find out next year i guess.

Wow...Only $22,500.00 for an 8th rounder a couple of years ago?

Flophouses and "meal" (only can afford McDonald's and Burger King with what they give you in the low minors) money...is what I remember, too.

Sounds like he made a wise decision.

Been, He was a Senior sign. a junior in that round would recieve about $75,000.

we've often heard the phrase "chasing a dream"

when a kid gets into pro ball, he soon realizes that the "corporation" he works for is "strictly business" in their operation

especially if he's a college guy he'll be likely to also quickly realize the importance of using that same "business sense" to evaluate his career path with that "employer" in comparison to other career options available to him

it then becomes a matter of him just looking at the numbers and making the smart business decision

No offense, but wasn't the $22,500 for a signing bonus. He gave it a shot for two years, it didn't work out for him. Why would he even consider giving it back? At $850 (now $1100 or whatever it is) a month, I would think the A's got their money's worth.

Quitting is not the decision I would have made, but I'm not in his shoes. I wish him the best in his future endeavors. Sounds like something Billy Beane once did.

Actually, he played pro ball for 7 months. 2 months in 03 and 5 months in 04. Counting the bonus and salary, he made about $29,200 for his short time in pro ball.If the kid had made the big leagues, the A's would have had a great bargin. as it was, they just threw $29,200 down the drain.

Billy Beane played 10 years of pro ball, with parts of 6 seasons in the big leagues. He gave it a good shot at being the best he could be.

quote:

If the kid had made the big leagues, the A's would have had a great bargin. as it was, they just threw $29,200 down the drain.

Agreed. That's why the draft (for the most part) IMHO is a c rapshoot. Based on the bargain vs loss, I don't see where the player should give his bonus back. I'm sure the A's wouldn't have minded getting the bargain.

And using your scenario with the player, Beane didn't play near 10 years.

reality
once the kid had lost confidence in the "development track", or percieved lack of one, that the employer/A's had for him

pursuing a Cornell MBA with a starting salary of $160,000 and another $60-$80K in signing/incentive bonus's from employers who are competing for his services probably seemed pretty attractive

Frank, The scenario that I used for Beane was that he did not go out for a year and a half and then quit. He battled for 10 seasons and then took a scouting job.

What I should have said was that the scout covering Richmond did not do his homework very well.

Chairman, That starting salary is almost as good as the $317,000 starting salary in the big leagues with the license money of about $45,000 and the pension that starts up the day you arrive. The make up that you need to succeed as a big leaguer is very similar to the make up you need to succeed in the business world or any other profession. Guys with weak make ups have a tendency to fail or quit at what they are doing.

bbscout
Can you discribe the kind of make up a player needs to make it to the big league?

njbb, Tunnel vision, desire, confidence, mental toughness. The ability to be able to lie to yourself.......go 0-4 with 3 punchouts and within an hour, you are thinking about how you are going to hang out 3 line drives tomorrow.
Within a month of playing, the player will know who the guys are that are the best workers and prospects.......hang out with them. He will also know who the guys are that are just playing and having some fun until they have to get a real job......stay away from them.

I have a feeling that your young man already has all of the above.

Thank you, moms need mental toughness also... for those 0 for 4 nights

bbscout

That sounds like me playing golf. No matter how bad I play, I think I am going to do good the next time out. It hasn't happend yet but I know it will.

I am pretty dissapointed in the resentment some of you have displayed against this young man for his decision.

Does someone who graduated from a very strong 4-year college while also playing 4 years of varsity baseball at a very high level while pursuing his education have a weak make-up?

The bottom line is playing minor league baseball does not offer these players a chance to even earn a living. They earn 800 a month (pre expenses) for 6 months, then go home and have to work odd jobs to survive till next season.

My cousin signed after college as a free agent 3 years ago and was given a 500 dollar bonus and a plane ticket to spokane washington. He spent 2 years in the minors and quickly realized that who moves up and down and plays is largely political and dicated not by actual performance but by what the parent team wants. He had no bonus money to fall back on as well.

While there is an end of the rainbow for a few lucky players, there are thousands of players that toil in the minor leagues, some of whom gave up a college education, and by the time they see the writing on the wall they are 25 or 26 dead broke with no educatin, no job experience, and no job skills. You don't see these guys on TV, you only see Pedro Martinez complaining the red sox only offered him 38 million dollars after paying him 90 million.

We live in a society where people always encourage education and because someone gave up on one dream to pursue another he is called weak and a quitter????

is there an acceptable number of years someone is supposed to toil in the minors before they quit? If I play 12 years in the minors and finally quit am I a quitter?

ghouse,

Well said.

Now if we only had a two thumbs up Instant Graemlin I'd give it to you.

ghouse, Other than myself, I don't think anyone else said anything that could be considered negative.

As I mentioned in a prior post, the scout who covered Richmond did not do his homework very well.

As far as the young man goes, it is obvious that he did not have the desire to stick it out and try to be a big leaguer. He did not get released, he just quit.

The guys who start are the guys who are judged to have the most potential. The guys who are signed as fillers as your cousin was also get a chance, and when they do, they better produce or they will get sent home. The politics you mentioned is nonsense. If your cousin hit .300, he would then be a prospect. Marvin Benard was the last guy picked in the draft by the Giants and made 12 million in the game. Bill Mueller signed for $2000 with the Giants and has won a MLB batting title and made many millions. They both had the right make up to succeed in baseball.They were not starters in their first minor league seasons, but they were in their second seasons, because when they got their chance, they produced. They believed they could be big leaguers and they were right.

This young man might be the sweetest, brightest kid around, but he did not have the make up to succeed in baseball......and that is what I am talking about. He could have a Doctors degree from Stanford, but it won't help him make the big leagues.

I have stayed at almost every hotel you can think of in these leagues and none of them are fleabags. If anyone has seen the ballparks in the NOrthwest League where this young man played, they would be impressed. Most of the parks in the Midwest League where he also played are also good, with the exception of CLinton, which was not his home park anyway.

The guy who is afraid to chase the rainbow sure won't be a big leaguer.

There is a rainbow for a few lucky businessmen as well, but the top dogs all have the same make ups that the top ballplayers do.

Well I think anyone would love to have the opportunity that this young man had. H.S. College, and then a shot to play Pro ball! I am sure as the years go by those memories will be good ones. He will have some stories to tell his grandchildren one day. My son read this and he can't wait if given that opportunity!

IMO, perceptions as to the "realities of minor league baseball" vary greatly.
Little doubt that everyone who gets the opportunity is gifted as a player and for those of us who love the game, our envy.
I would bet the article accurately portrays that player"s "perceptions" but others take similar situations and perhaps view the glass "half full."
As bbscout says, it is hard work but perhaps even harder mentally. Our son is in the MWL and they play in great venues with fine crowds and community support and are generally supported on and off the field. Yes the busrides can be long and tedious but for mine, coming from a DIII, it is somewhat like riding a limo, at times, compared to the college experience.
The tough issues are the mental ones. If you are a filler, you know nothing about how you are viewed in the organization. Perform well, still don't know whether you are a prospect or filler. Perhaps the very best thing you learn is to control what you can and forget about what you can't. You need to play your best every chance you get and focus on tomorrow when today was disappointing. Mine sat for most of April and only got a chance when a starter missed a bus. While the starter was given 2 days off, mine went 5-9. Since then he has had over 500 at bats and played, for the most part, at a pretty consistent and high level. But still, he has no insight into his status within the organization.
Season will end next Monday and he has learned his play did not earn a trip to Fall Instrux while others who were not as productive this year did. Again, nothing he can control. He will take one month off to heal a body that is sore beyond belief. But he is planning already for next year because this is what he loves doing. Is he living in a dream world? Probably. But he is not done dreaming and I am not done supporting his his ability to dream. Perceptions can motivate and perceptions can cloud judgements as well, both his and mine and I often question whether I should suggest options be explored. Since I am pretty confident his "perceptions" of the "realities of minor league baseball" differ from the article, I feel comfortable I should keep those "questions" for another time.

quote:

Perhaps the very best thing you learn is to control what you can and forget about what you can't.

infielddad - Great post and good reminder for players at all levels.

Infielddad, Great post. Jason Armstrong was a college senior sign who is hitting right close to .300 and is proving to himself and his organization that he is a .300 hitter. Bill Mueller was a 22 year old college senior sign who hit .300 right on the button, but the higher ups said that he did not have any power. Well, the nxt 4 years in the minor leagues he hit .302, .309, .297 and .302 and still did not hit for any power. What happened? he went to the big leagues and kept hitting.300 and two years ago he won the American League batting title with the Red Sox. Bill Mueller has a great make up, and I think Jason Armstrong does too.

infielddad,

It is one thing to be a great writer, it is quite another to have something to say on top of it. In that post, both elements were clearly there. An instant classic and refreshingly honest appraisal of not only baseball but society itself. It does seems strange, in a capatilistic society, that actual productivity could be out-trumped by anything else.

thanks, bbscout, I'm still watchin, even if I am off-the-wall...........

Bill (a k a Infielddad) ...
Wow, what a great description of the kind of attitude I believe it takes to make it. Jason obviously loves the game and goes out there and works hard ... the kind of player that does experience success because the game is about so many intangibles. And as far as instrux go ... I prefer to see it as a positive ... he doesn't have as much to work on as those guys that were invited

Doug (a k a bbscout) ...
Since you have been thru minors yourself and since your input can affect a young man's chances to live the experience, I always enjoy your take on these threads about minor league life. I have seen discussions on college boards where people wonder why kids choose to sign and why others choose to return to school for their senior years ... all personal choices that each young man makes, hopefully to his benefit in the future. But some players are just ready for that next level, just want to get there ... long bus rides and all ... and live their dream, and they will give it their all for as long as they can, hoping to make it to the Show. That drive and determination are examples of other intangibles, I believe.

I hope our son has what it takes ... I know his heart is in it, just like Jason, and I pray that they both become "prospects" in their own organizations and get to take that first step on a big league diamond. But if nothing else, he will keep at it as long as he can (fortunately his wife is very supportive) because he believes that his MLB club saw something in him that they think will bring success.

By the way, I am sending you both a copy of a recent interview from the club's minor league a9scout.com) site that I think you will enjoy.

I find this thread very interesting. The writer’s reference to the flea bitten flop houses leads me to believe there is more than just a little sensationalism in the article.
Ghouse, as the father of a minor league player I feel as if MLB gets blamed most of the time when a player quits. They always make reference to the long bus rides, low pay, living out of motels and fast food. Sounds a lot like travel ball, high school ball, and college baseball except the pay is much better, they get to play more games, and they don’t have to go to class. I know my son would rather set on a bus watching a movie on his lap top than setting in study-hall thinking about baseball. I told my son when he started professional baseball that he should look at it as a four or five year challenge to make it to the big leagues. His knows his success or failure will not depend on how he does in one at bat or one game or even one season but rather his overall commitment to the challenge. He, like all young players, know going in that professional baseball will be tough and most won’t make it to the big leagues.
My son is a standard run of the mill southern boy from Tennessee and played his college ball in Alabama. He’s currently playing “A” ball in the New York Penn league and he recently commented how cruel the fans in New York can be to their own players. He quickly added that it’s no big deal though.... He said he would much rather be booed on a baseball field than applauded in a cubicle.
Fungo

Fungo ...

quote:

He said he would much rather be booed on a baseball field than applauded in a cubicle.

I will definitely pass that along to my son who feels the same way, I am sure. It is tough to hear "fans" dissing your son, but that puts it all in perspective for me.

I'm sending this thread to my son. Only parents of players with the same kind of heart that is talked about here could understand the gift that you talk about. I've always said if my son ever had the chance I'd support him all the way - it's his dream. Living and aspiring towards your dream is truly priceless.

Much success to all of your sons!

BBscout,

I e-mailed your earlier quote about what it takes to get to the top to my two sons. Thank you, very well said!



H-1

Good posts by all, even ghouse. So the young man didn’t have the “make-up” to make it. Is that such a sin? Sounded like he gave it at least a shot and after being frustrated by not moving up, having his velocity go from low 90’s to 80’s, staying in (his perceived) fleabag motels, maybe saw the writing on the wall and moved on. I’m not going to hang him out to dry and say he should give back his signing bonus, basically call him a loser who won’t make it in the real world either because he doesn’t have the “make-up”.

Trust me, my son would absolutely LOVE to be associated with everything good and bad about being in the minor league and living his dream. He’s envious of guys like Jason, Josh, AJ and others who are doing what it takes to keep playing. If it wasn’t for a down jr year, maybe he would be now. He pretty much eats, sleeps and dreams baseball. If he doesn’t get the chance after this year, he still wants to do something involved in baseball. And if that doesn’t work out, believe it or not, life goes on and hopefully he will have the “make-up” to make it in whatever he pursues.

Hopefully I’m not coming off as this being a personal thing. I’m just putting myself in the dad’s shoes of this young man and wish him the best.

And I do appreciate the posts about making it and life in the minors. Like hokieone and lafmom, I too have shown it to my son.

Peace.

Just a quick tally, I know there are more than a few websters son's in the minors, here is a list of some off the top of my head, if your son is in the minors please post it here:

Bighit's- Pirates
Fungo- Blue Jays
Racab- Mets
TXmom- Giants
FutureBack.mom- Self explanitory
AHS-Rangers
Lou Santangelo- Astros

Please list any others I have overlooked, I know it is a lot, and I'm sorry for not listing them.

Glove Man NJBB son plays in affiliate of Royals.

I was watching the Cubs/Dodgers game last night. There's a player (can't remember his name!) who hasn't been in the majors in seven years. He's been playing in Japan. Apparently he played in Tampa all those years ago and was released. Had his first major league extra base hit last night with a very nice double. No one can doubt this guy has passion and determination!

I know it's tough to be in the majors and even to move up in the minor league system, but this guy had an ERA under 1 at one point in 5 starts! Why wasn't he promoted. That's not justice.

quote:

Originally posted by Catch43:
I know it's tough to be in the majors and even to move up in the minor league system, but this guy had an ERA under 1 at one point in 5 starts! Why wasn't he promoted. That's not justice.

He was promoted....from Vancouver to Kane County.

BB Scout;
Do you recall the story of Dontrelle Willis when you coached the Giants Area Code team?

It regarded his "youthful" desire to hit during the games and you finally "gave in"
and allowed Dontrelle to hit and of course he hit a single. Josh Beckett did the same in the year he played.
The "common tread", they knew they could succeed when the opportunity was presented.

When we travel to Korea, Japan, Australia with 18 to 84 players, players like Trayvon Robinson, Torri Hunter, Aaron Hill, Adam La Roche, Jim Edmonds, Jermey Bonderman,Bobby Jenks, Dimitri and Delmon Young and Scott Kazmir will "rise to the situation" and demand the opportunity to excel.

This is amateur baseball at its "finest".

BB, you are correct the pro scout in Richmond did not do his "homework".

Bob

I think it's unfair to say the kid didn't make it because he didn't have the make-up, the heart, the ambition, etc...

The kid lost his fastball. If you are a pitcher in the minors, and you throw in the mid 80s, you better be a lefty specialist, a knuckler, or a submariner. Anyway, the kid got hurt. For pitchers who don't make it, my guess is that a high % quit because of nagging injuries. While I do think that the article made the kid seem kind of soft, it seems to me that even if he was the toughest kid in the world, it just wasn't going to happen for him.

Catch43 ..
As bbscout said, he was promoted from short season low A to full season high A. His Vancouver team was very very good and there was a lot of quality competition in the league last year. But our son was in the NWL as well and I think Mr McGirr has slanted his descriptions of the living and travel arrangements to suit his argument.

Bottom line ... he chose to quit after not even finishing out his first full season ... emphasis on the word CHOSE ... it wasn't for him. Period. Bottom line. He still considered an accomplishment from his college days as his most memorable game (my son's most memorable was his first pro start), so perhaps he had difficulty adjusting to the developmental aspects of minor league ball rather than the winning-is-everything aspects of college ball. It is a tough adjustment, especially for competitive personalities, and some never really make that adjustment. Some do and they continue on. Some don't and they leave/quit. That's just the way it is.

It seems to me that one reality that is lost on some of these players is who the audience is they are actually playing for. Just because there may be several guys ahead of you in one organization, doesn't necessarily mean there isn't some other organization that may value your services. Thus, as long as you are playing/producing on a consistent basis, there is a chance that somebody else will acquire you and give you the chance that you may be lacking in your present organization.

I know, but A isn't even taken seriously. He should of been promoted to AA. But I never took much consideration to the fact that he CHOSE to quit. He did make it seem that minor league life was horrible.

Many movies portray the minor leagues as fun. Just being with the guys, actually getting paid to play. Like your living out your dream. Just a few steps away from the majors.

Even our own AHSPitcher17, Shane Funk, only had good things to say about the minors.