The web we weave

Yes, that is what gnatty the statty (better known as scorekeeper) wanted us to beleive, however, we REALLY don't KNOW THE WHOLE STORY. He didn't get the response he was expecting, did he?

So who is right and who is wrong, the players, the coach, the AD, the scout, the organization that makes the rule or the messenger?

Why would a scout who has connections to the team take a chance for it to be forfeited? Could very well be that this probably goes on alot, but someone squealed on someone.

quote:

Originally posted by jemaz:
It seems that the bad guy in all of this -- including the behind-the-scene stuff -- is the Blue Jays scout. He should have known the rules -- and, I would imagine, almost certainly did. If not, he was not doing his job very well. It does not benefit anyone to put a high school player(s) in a position in which one entire team is disqualified and another was eliminated by a team that was in reality already technically ineligible. The scout undoubtedly is not "scum", but it was a scummy thing to do. I hope he does his job a bit better next time. I can understand the level of emotion this created.

jamez,

First of all, although it likely won’t work, let me try once more to correct those who have mischaracterized what I said. Look at who I called scum and how I characterized them. I did not call these boys or anyone having anything to do with this incident scum. I can’t help it if those who have been driven crazy by that word have misinterpreted what was said, and then mischaracterized it.

As for the issue, you’ve come closer than anyone to putting your finger right on the problem. However, there is a small point you’ve gotten wrong.

quote:

It does not benefit anyone to put a high school player(s) in a position in which one entire team is disqualified and another was eliminated by a team that was in reality already technically ineligible.

Just as with all things of a seamy nature, everything comes down to $$$$. Someone has benefited monetarily in the past, and was/is in line to benefit monetarily if either of these boys hit it big.

quote:

As for other players who have cheated and gotten away with it, as far as I’m concerned, they’re scum who risk their teammates, and use them as dirt to grind beneath their feet so they can walk a smooth path to their own selfish glory.

Stats I think this is why people believe you said these kids were scum. Throw in your definition of what scum is - people who knowingly break the rules - and it should be pretty obvious why people are upset.

Another thing is this is a pretty powerful statement and you also have taken a pretty powerful stance on this event. It leads me to think that you have a connection to this situation. Do you have a son on the Providence Grove team or did you have a son that played on a team that was ruled on similar to this.

Did you hear that jemaz, you were close BUT because you didn't know the WHOLE story, you got something wrong.
According to gnatty, who most of us have no clue who he is, there was going to be some big paola if one of these kids hit it big. So the word scum may not have applied to the players, but to someone else, who we don't know was the obvious scum. Now that makes a whole lot of sense, man we should have known better that $$$ was involved!!!!!

Yes, a tangled web for sure. According to gnatty who has made some pretty strong implications.

I agree, more appropriate for trailer trash parking lots, not the HSBBW.

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Ok. Where dya' want it TPM.



Fifteen bucks a day...flashing lights extra.





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quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Stats I think this is why people believe you said these kids were scum. Throw in your definition of what scum is - people who knowingly break the rules - and it should be pretty obvious why people are upset.

I don’t mind that people get upset at all. Heck! They should. Rules are rules, and its too often that those rules are circumvented or ignored. I’m a huge OSU fan, but to tell the truth, I’m glad Tressel got the axe. Not because I think a college student selling tickets or getting a tattoo in exchange for a team jacket or ring is such a bad thing. Its that everyone knows there are liberties taken because there’s so much $$$ involved.

quote:

Another thing is this is a pretty powerful statement and you also have taken a pretty powerful stance on this event. It leads me to think that you have a connection to this situation. Do you have a son on the Providence Grove team or did you have a son that played on a team that was ruled on similar to this.

I’m taking the same stance the coach, the AD, the principal, the state assn, all of the parents and players other than the 2 boys and theirs have taken. And yes I do have a connection to it. While I am not employed by the school, don’t have a child or even a relative going to the school, nor have I ever been involved in a similar situation, I do a ton of volunteer work for the team, along with a lot of other volunteers who do even more.

Its very difficult to spend a lot of one’s time and other resources to try to provide something for the kids, only to see this kind of thing happen. No one I know of does it to help kids make it to the next level, although I assure you we all take great pride in it when it happens. We do it because we love the game, and what it gives to those who participate.

Watching 20 players who busted their humps, and the many parents and coaches who sacrificed, many for 4 years or more in the program, have to suffer the indignity and derision this thing has brought to the program is a terrible thing to watch and endure. This isn’t what HS baseball or HS sports is supposed to be about. Is it the end of the world? Heck no. In fact, I’m sure that by this time next season it will be nothing more than a faded unpleasant memory. And that’s the saddest thing about it.

Can we please keep this thread civil?

Thanks

08

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Working together. Keeping it civil.






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The dustups we have here sometimes...reminds me of some scenes from a good movie (and even a better book).



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quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
It would be nice if at these tryouts those in charge state, "Has everyone here checked to make sure this tryout does not affect your high school eligibility?" It's not their responsibility. But it wouldn't hurt.

I think it's a stupid rule. But it is a rule. I may be wrong, but I believe back when dinosaurs ruled te earth I had to get signatures my from high school and Legion coaches before attending MLB tryout camps. We would attend before senior year.

Son had to have written permission from his HS principle to attend a work out with MLB team that was 2004

quote:

Its that everyone knows there are liberties taken because there’s so much $$$ involved.

So true! The reason for the rule isn't to keep someone from selling their belongings for a reasonable price. It's to keep the athlete from selling his shoes to a booster for $50,000.

I do think there are too many rules. Attending a tryout should be up to the individual.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

I agree, more appropriate for trailer trash parking lots, not the HSBBW.

I'll have you know that I've had some of my best boiled peanuts in these kind of parking lots.

Now, I have a (stupid?) question which I don't mean to rob this thread, but why DOES an American Legion player have to get permission and/or a release from the coach to attend a MLB try-out, and a travel ball player doesn't?

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I do think there are too many rules. Attending a tryout should be up to the individual.

I think there are too many rules too, but what would it be like without them? When one thinks about it, rules aren’t for those who try hard to play the game the ways its supposed to be played, i.e. with honor and integrity. The rules are there because someone didn’t, and the powers to be thought it was necessary to try to take precautions to minimize the chances of it happening again. Heck, by having a pre-stated penalty they know its gonna happen again, so its not like anyone was dumbfounded.

Attending a professional tryout is up to the individual, always has been, and always will be. The only thing is, if the individual is a HS player and does that in this state, he becomes ineligible to play with his HS team.

People didn’t get mad at those boys because they went to the tryout, Heck, I totally understand that. What got everyone PO’d is that they hid it from the coach, weren’t able to give their best for the team, and when confronted, lied about it and said they owed nothing to the team when they finally did admit it was true.

How many coaches do you know who would have allowed him to pitch Sat, throw 60-70 pitches in a ML tryout on Sun, then start a playoff game on Mon after driving 600 miles each way to the tryout? Would you do it? When you were the coach, would you have been happy if they were your players and did that?

IOW, its not what was done, it was how it was done, and what was said after. Ya know, there’s something this state assn and many others believe in. Its called Pursuing Victory with Honor. I used to think it was just some goofy saying someone thought up to get kids all gung ho about HS sports, until I Googled it one day. Turns out there really are people who believe there has to be honor in victory and in playing the game. Trouble is, the only thing honorable about this whole affair, was when the coach reported it as soon as he found out. There were plenty of chances for other honorable acts too, but they didn’t happen.