Time out request

quote:

Originally posted by baseballfanz:
I know a batter can only request a timeout and the ump have to give it. I think I know the answer but trying to confirmed.

Last night at a game, high school level:

Batter raise hand for time out
Umpire never granted it and pitcher stop halfway through his motion. Base umpire call balk.
The offensive coach got ballistic and argue the call.
Saying something about a NFHS rules stating that it's automatic time out when batter ask for it.

The coach was right (sort of). It's an automatic do-over when the batter raises his hand to ask for time and the pitcher balks.

Thank you that's good to know.
I'm trying to find a little more infos into this
in case it ever happen again which I'm sure it will.

Dash is correct, if the batter does something to cause a balk then the umpire kills the ball and starts over.

quote:

Originally posted by baseballfanz:
I know a batter can only request a timeout and the ump have to give it. I think I know the answer but trying to confirmed.

Last night at a game, high school level:

Batter raise hand for time out
Umpire never granted it and pitcher stop halfway through his motion. Base umpire call balk.
The offensive coach got ballistic and argue the call.
Saying something about a NFHS rules stating that it's automatic time out when batter ask for it.

The coach is incorrect. Time out is not automatic. A player requests and the umpire grants, or not.

However, if the umpire adjudges that the pitcher was reacting to illegal action by the batter, time is called and they start over from scratch. This is one of two do-overs in the rule book, but it is not automatic. It is umpire judgment.

I have seen instances where the umpires did not consider a pitcher's action to be in response to the batters and the balk stood.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

quote:

Originally posted by baseballfanz:
I know a batter can only request a timeout and the ump have to give it. I think I know the answer but trying to confirmed.

Last night at a game, high school level:

Batter raise hand for time out
Umpire never granted it and pitcher stop halfway through his motion. Base umpire call balk.
The offensive coach got ballistic and argue the call.
Saying something about a NFHS rules stating that it's automatic time out when batter ask for it.

The coach is incorrect. Time out is not automatic. A player requests and the umpire grants, or not.

However, if the umpire adjudges that the pitcher was reacting to illegal action by the batter, time is called and they start over from scratch. This is one of two do-overs in the rule book, but it is not automatic. It is umpire judgment.

It is indeed umpire judgment, but I have never seen a balk enforced when the pitcher stopped his motion after the batter raised his hand to call time. Other balks yes, but not that one.

So what is the second "do-over' scenario? thx...

quote:

Originally posted by baseballfanz:
Thank you that's good to know.
I'm trying to find a little more infos into this
in case it ever happen again which I'm sure it will.

In case you need a rule cite for Fed, it's 6-2-4d-1c: If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter (c) holds up his hand to request "Time," it shall not be a balk. In (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call "Time" and begin play anew.

quote:

Originally posted by schwammi:
So what is the second "do-over' scenario? thx...

The only one I can think of is pitcher dropping ball that doesn't cross a foul line, with no runners.

The only other do-over specfically mentioned in the rule book is that, hopefully, very rare time that an umpire allows play to begin with the offensive not having all nine players in positin to play. For example, the right fielder spaces out that the sides have changed and stays in the dugout.

If play is allowed before this is discovered, that play is vacated and a do-over takes place when the absent player takes his position.

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

quote:

Originally posted by baseballfanz:
I know a batter can only request a timeout and the ump have to give it. I think I know the answer but trying to confirmed.

Last night at a game, high school level:

Batter raise hand for time out
Umpire never granted it and pitcher stop halfway through his motion. Base umpire call balk.
The offensive coach got ballistic and argue the call.
Saying something about a NFHS rules stating that it's automatic time out when batter ask for it.

The coach is incorrect. Time out is not automatic. A player requests and the umpire grants, or not.

However, if the umpire adjudges that the pitcher was reacting to illegal action by the batter, time is called and they start over from scratch. This is one of two do-overs in the rule book, but it is not automatic. It is umpire judgment.

It is indeed umpire judgment, but I have never seen a balk enforced when the pitcher stopped his motion after the batter raised his hand to call time. Other balks yes, but not that one.

I agree, which is why I used the wording, illegal activity, and not a raised hand. I have seen a couple instances in which a batter fidgeted, the pitcher stopped his delivery and umpires ruled the batter's action did not cause the stop.

Another "do-over" is when the catcher interferes with the batter before the pitcher delivers the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by Yakyu:
Another "do-over" is when the catcher interferes with the batter before the pitcher delivers the ball.

Rule cite?

Yakyu:
Explain further. If I follow what you mean, you are talking about the batter contacting the catcher during a practice swing before the pitch. If so you stop the pitcher and reset everything. I guess you could call it a do over but it is more just stopping action so neither the batter or catcher get hurt by the pitch.

quote:

Originally posted by Yakyu:
Another "do-over" is when the catcher interferes with the batter before the pitcher delivers the ball.

Uh...don't believe so.

First I would need to see the rule you are citing. Second, what is there to do over...no play has taken place.

quote:

Originally posted by yawetag:

quote:

Originally posted by Yakyu:
Another "do-over" is when the catcher interferes with the batter before the pitcher delivers the ball.

Rule cite?

Rule 6.08(c) Comment: If catcher’s interference is called with a play in progress the umpire will
allow the play to continue because the manager may elect to take the play. If the batter-runner missed
first base, or a runner misses his next base, he shall be considered as having reached the base, as stated in
Note of Rule 7.04 (d).
Examples of plays the manager might elect to take:
1. Runner on third, one out, batter hits fly ball to the outfield on which the runner scores but
catcher’s interference was called. The offensive manager may elect to take the run and have batter called
out or have runner remain at third and batter awarded first base.
2. Runner on second base. Catcher interferes with batter as he bunts ball fairly sending runner to
third base. The manager may rather have runner on third base with an out on the play than have runners
on second and first.
If a runner is trying to score by a steal or squeeze from third base, note the additional penalty set
forth in Rule 7.07.
If the catcher interferes with the batter before the pitcher delivers the ball, it shall not be considered
interference on the batter under Rule 6.08(c). In such cases, the umpire shall call “Time” and the pitcher
and batter start over from “scratch.”

LOL, happen again this past weekend.
A player on my son's team raised his hand and stepped out at the same time. Pitcher stopped and was call for a balk. Of course other coach wasn't too happy.

Where the heck are you playing tournament ball that the umpires don't know this simple rule. Hopefully you will be able to correctly dispute this if it happens to you.

LOL, Houston TX. Lots of very good umpires but some are new and especially the real young one don't really know much.

Some of these tournaments directors want to make as much money as they can so they try to paid the least they can for everything

well they are getting exactly what they are paying for thats fairly evident.....

MST and I both have been Umpiring Directors at tourneys and we both realize that umpiring is most often the number one expense that a tourney incurs....

Now if the goal is for the tourney to make the maximum amount of money possible then go with volunteers or untrained youngsters.....

If your goal is to have the tourney again next year, better bring in some qualified guys.......nothing runs teams off like high fees and shoddy umpiring....

That is an interesting aspect of travel baseball. Teams pay $300.00 to $500.00 to play baseball. Tournament directors stress trying not to toss because they want to customers, the managers and players, to be happy but then they run guys out there that are out there just to get a check or are very new and have no experience. Then they make wrong calls, are in the wrong place to get the correct call, don't know the rules or don't know how to manage the game. This causes managers to come to the boards and ask what should have happened and are upset because they got hosed by a guy doing a substandard job. What they should do is complain to the TD about the poor quality of the officials so the better guys get work.
On the other hand if you get a guy that can handle a game the managers complain because they can't intimidate the guy. The other prolem with the higher end guys working is the overall quality of play has suffered over the last ten years.

An admitted generalizaton, but from my experience as a tournament UIC:

Fans and coaches have the most issues with both the inexperienced and the highest level umpires and get along best with the mediocre umpires.

The inexperienced umpires screw up mechanics and thus make obviously bad calls. The coaches and fans are on them immediately. "Hey, blue, you're missing a good game."

The top umpires make calls in the field confidently and know the rules and interps that run contrary to what many fans and some coaches "know." The coaches and fans are on them immediately. "Read the rule book!"

The mediocre umpire manages to see a majority of calls correctly and has many of the same misconceptions about the rules that coaches and fans have. They also have a habit chatting a bit and coming off as a "good ol' boy." "Nice game, Blue."

I won't use the mediocre umpires once the quarter finals begin.

We play almost every weekends and 90% of the tournaments and umpires are greats.
We do get into a bad one here and there, all we can do is make notes and try to avoid the same tournaments by the same peoples.

Radwaste50, thanks for posting the rule citation for me. I was out of town for a week and wasn't checking the board.

We do a lot of travel ball tourneys here. I do it for the love of umpiring and baseball, but the money helps too. I definitely do my best to be in position, be consistent with my strike zone, confident with the calls, and know the rulebook (although must admit you always learn something). None of us have gotten every call right. I'm not sure what a "mediocre" umpire looks like. There is not a middle ground with umps. You are either a good one or you are not. Hustle to be in the right position, make a decisive call and you will generally get high marks.

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:
I'm not sure what a "mediocre" umpire looks like. There is not a middle ground with umps. You are either a good one or you are not. .

Im sure you know plenty of mediocre umpires...and if you are anything like most of us.....you probably were one at one time or another....

The difference is whether or not you stay that way...and many do...

the mediocre umpire..

doesnt care about his appearance
doesnt study the rules
doesnt attend any clinics/continuing education
doesnt invest in Umpiring (my term ask me about it someday)

He wont make the tough call
He dodges the plate
He shows up late
He wants to leave early
He wont eject coaches
He ignores rules he doesnt agree with
He permits things the rules forbid
He invents personal intepretations of rules
He rejects updated interps or mechanics...
He has "situational ethics" (again my term ask me someday)

As an umpire trainer and evaluator I can pick these guys out in one 7 inning game...there are plenty of games being umpired by guys like the above....can they call balls/strikes safe/out fair/ foul ??....probably....but its the other things that makes them mediocre.........The list is too long to write....you know "that guy"....

Another form of mediocre umpire is the guy that can call a decent game 80% of the time but falls apart when challanged on the other 20%. Amazingly the percentages line up with the addage I use all the time about you play 80% of the games with 20% of the rules.

quote:

Im sure you know plenty of mediocre umpires...and if you are anything like most of us.....you probably were one at one time or another....

Frankly I never fell into the catagories you listed. Through my coaching years and at all age groups my first day of practice involved making sure the parents and players understood baseball is a 100+ year-old game and the #1 thing I would do is protect the integrity and respect the game at all times. I umpire with the same philosophy and anyone who comes inside the lines should also think that way. Prepare (rules, clinics, invest), do your best (be in position, make decisive calls, interpret properly)

wow, thats quite the bold statement mike....congrats....

The more one reads these umpire threads they give you more insight the minds and thinking of umpires. specifically the recered men in blue who post here.

It is a bit scary

TRhit,
Please keep any negative and condesending remarks toward these umpire moderators and contributors OFF Ask The Umpire. With all due respect it is not welcome here.

Chin Music


Who the heck are you to lecture me/

The umpires and I go back and forth all the time

I am one of many umpires who use this message board to learn from umpires more senior and knowledgeable than we are. Not trying to lecture you just asking you to contribute or stay off.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Chin Music


Who the heck are you to lecture me/

The umpires and I go back and forth all the time

Well, if you would quit coming back, we won't come forth to you.

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:

quote:

Im sure you know plenty of mediocre umpires...and if you are anything like most of us.....you probably were one at one time or another....

Frankly I never fell into the catagories you listed. Through my coaching years and at all age groups my first day of practice involved making sure the parents and players understood baseball is a 100+ year-old game and the #1 thing I would do is protect the integrity and respect the game at all times. I umpire with the same philosophy and anyone who comes inside the lines should also think that way. Prepare (rules, clinics, invest), do your best (be in position, make decisive calls, interpret properly)

So you're the one. I have heard there was an umpire who was perfect from day one and then improved, but I never thought I'd meet him.

Hey, TR...fresh meat.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
The more one reads these umpire threads they give you more insight the minds and thinking of umpires. specifically the recered men in blue who post here.

It is a bit scary

"Recered men in blue"?

I haven't won blue in years, and I can'r remember the last time I was recered...must have been years ago.

James

That is a typo--it should read revered

Too bad others cant enjoy the banter as you and I do

quote:

So you're the one. I have heard there was an umpire who was perfect from day one and then improved, but I never thought I'd meet him.

Jimmy how can you interpret what I was saying in my post to somehow think I was saying I was perfect? I specifically said I need more time in the rulebook and clinics, but I was invested because I love baseball. Love it so much I was listening to the 64 World Series in class using a tansistor radio with the cord running down my long sleeve shirt while I held the earpiece in my ear so the teacher wouldn't see it.

Stan made an excellent post about what the medicore ump looks like, and how he acts. His points were on the money.

I was speaking from my experience that I respect the game of baseball too much, as a long-time ago player, 10+ year coach, and now 6+ years umpiring regularly to be the medicore umpire. Perfect, ha...far from it, and live by the saying, when you get too old to learn something then you are too old! You're not too old are you Jimmy?

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:

quote:

So you're the one. I have heard there was an umpire who was perfect from day one and then improved, but I never thought I'd meet him.

Jimmy how can you interpret what I was saying in my post to somehow think I was saying I was perfect? I specifically said I need more time in the rulebook and clinics, but I was invested because I love baseball. Love it so much I was listening to the 64 World Series in class using a tansistor radio with the cord running down my long sleeve shirt while I held the earpiece in my ear so the teacher wouldn't see it.

Stan made an excellent post about what the medicore ump looks like, and how he acts. His points were on the money.

I was speaking from my experience that I respect the game of baseball too much, as a long-time ago player, 10+ year coach, and now 6+ years umpiring regularly to be the medicore umpire. Perfect, ha...far from it, and live by the saying, when you get too old to learn something then you are too old! You're not too old are you Jimmy?

On the contrary. While I'm not old enought to have a decent memory of the 1964 World Serties, I have related a number of times that I continue to attend procamps to keep my skills sharp and learn how mechanincs may have been tweaked, as they commonly are, each year. I will retire when I stop learning.

You post, was easily read as saying you were never mediocre. And your latest post re-inforces that.

"I was speaking from my experience that I respect the game of baseball too much, as a long-time ago player, 10+ year coach, and now 6+ years umpiring regularly to be the medicore umpire."


On can only assume that since you have to much respect to have been mediocre, somehow you started good and got better.

quote:

Originally posted by otownmike:

quote:

So you're the one. I have heard there was an umpire who was perfect from day one and then improved, but I never thought I'd meet him.

Jimmy how can you interpret what I was saying in my post to somehow think I was saying I was perfect? I specifically said I need more time in the rulebook and clinics, but I was invested because I love baseball. Love it so much I was listening to the 64 World Series in class using a tansistor radio with the cord running down my long sleeve shirt while I held the earpiece in my ear so the teacher wouldn't see it.

Stan made an excellent post about what the medicore ump looks like, and how he acts. His points were on the money.

I was speaking from my experience that I respect the game of baseball too much, as a long-time ago player, 10+ year coach, and now 6+ years umpiring regularly to be the medicore umpire. Perfect, ha...far from it, and live by the saying, when you get too old to learn something then you are too old! You're not too old are you Jimmy?

I think you missed his point. You said you "never" fell into the categories of a "mediocre umpire". By saying that, you implied that "From day 1, I walked out on the field knowing how an umpire should look, act, and be on the field. I knew when to eject participants. I knew to make all calls no matter how hard and took the plate every chance I got. I knew all of this from the beginning of my umpiring career and have only improved from that."

Well, very few, if any, know how the whole umpiring world works from day 1. So, whether you want to admit it or not, you probably did fall into the category of "mediocre umpire". You may not be there now or are working hard to get out of it. But, you probably were/are one at some point in time. And, we all go back to that category occasionally, however rare it may be, for whatever reason. Bad day at work, feeling bad, or just a bad hair day.

We all digress slightly and the good ones bounce back. Even if it is an off day behind the plate and we can't find the zone for nothing.