time out rules

That's a balk. Pitcher can't be on the mound without the ball. Right??

It's neither an out nor a balk. It's nothing. After the ball is dead, the ball cannot be made live until the pitcher is on the rubber with the ball, and the catcher and batter are in their respective boxes.

If this play were done with the ball live, it would be a balk if the pitcher was on or straddling the rubber without the ball, or, in FED, within approximately 5 feet of the rubber without the ball.

just t then be sure you understand, pitcher gave 3rd baseman the ball while in the huddle when they broke up 3rd base went to 3rd tagged runner on 3rd when he stepped off base to me thats wrong, also does time auotmatically resume when everyone is back in position or is ump suppose to call time in

hawkjr,
dash_riprock gave you the correct answer, but perhaps the full implication wasn't obvious. Time was granted for a defensive conference, which means the ball was dead during the conference. The ball can't become live again, and no outs can be recorded, until.... well, just read the the rules below:


NFHS rules (but OBR and NCAA are in effect the same)
Rule 5.5
ART. 1 Ball becomes dead immediately when: ......
h. the umpire handles a live ball or calls “Time” for inspecting the ball or for any other reason, ......

ART. 2 When the ball becomes dead:
a. no action by the defense can cause a player to be put out; .......

ART. 4 After a dead ball, the ball becomes alive when it is held by the pitcher in a legal pitching position, provided the pitcher has engaged the pitcher’s plate, the batter and the catcher are in their respective boxes, and the umpire calls “Play” and gives the appropriate signal.

You can see that the ball never becomes live "automatically". Umpires will frequently just point at the pitcher to put the ball in play, without calling "Play", but of course this isn't done until the pitcher, batter and catcher have all assumed the appropriate positions.
Furthermore, the ball simply can't become live while the third baseman is holding it. If the umpire mistakenly believes the pitcher has the ball and calls "Play", it is umpire error, and any ensuing action is voided, other than the possible ejection of the defensive manager.

As dash pointed out, it is possible for the third baseman and pitcher to get together without time being called, so that the ball is still alive. In that case, if the pitcher avoided the balk that dash described in his second paragraph, the runner could be tagged out if he left the base. But even young players are taught to not lead off until the pitcher is contacting the rubber.

When the huddle brakes up time is still out.

The Umpire can/not, won't ever, okay, should never, ever, put the ball back in play until all the conditions "dash" refered too are met, except you don't necessarily need a batter in the box to resume play, pitcher, catcher, ball, fielders in fair, everytime. If the batter refused to enter the box, the umpire will still signal play.

But yes, the umpire should signal and motion in some manner to let all know the ball is back in play.

Since the pitcher gave the ball to F5, play could not be resumed.

If the umpire allowed this he/she is incorrect in allowing the out to stand.

Hawk, what should have happened at that point is the head coach, calmly, "Mr. Umpire sir, you just put the ball back in play without the pitcher having the ball on the mound? I am protesting your ruling."

Mr. Umpire should then direct the scorekeepers to annote exactly where, when, who was where, and the game should resume from that point.
Your leagues protest mechanism should make a ruling, either the game stands, or you commence from the point of the ruling.

May I ask; what did occur after this call?

Time does not automatically resume.....the ball must be put back into play.....and to do so the Pitcher has to have the ball.........just as dash said.....

It isnt a balk, it isnt an out........its a "throw the ball back to the pitcher so we can get the game started"..........

its a nothing and a huge embarassment for an umpire who may have lost track of the ball........

If the entire infield decided to have a meeting at the mound (without the coach - stays in dugout) would this automatically be a time out if the action had stopped?

I'm saying nobody really calls time nor does it seem like they really planned it. They all just ended up there and decided to talk about something going on with the game.

Hope this makes sense.

Technically all the infielders and catcher could go to the mound without calling time. But who the heck would do this with runners on base? Even 10 year old catchers know to ask for time before trotting out to the mound. Otherwise R3 will have the opportunity to score uncontested long before the hidden ball trick could play out.

I also suppose that most umpires wouldn't let a group conference start without calling time, by habit.

quote:

If the entire infield decided to have a meeting at the mound (without the coach - stays in dugout) would this automatically be a time out if the action had stopped?

I'm saying nobody really calls time nor does it seem like they really planned it. They all just ended up there and decided to talk about something going on with the game.

ya mean like they're discussing the 1B runner whom they will soon embarrass w/the ol' hidden ball trick?

oops, during the conference R1 has quietly tippy-toed his way around to 3B

yawn

here's how it works ...

1) after a hit, throw goes to the bag with the runner

2) with action stopped & ball alive, fielder WALKS the ball to the pitcher who meets him 1/2 way

3) after pretending to exchange the ball, the pitcher delays returning to the mound area by scratching, adjusting hat, or tying his shoe.

4) if the runner is dumb, lazy, or both ... he's dead meat

Many umpires don't put the ball back in play and just allow play to take care of itself. This is a huge mistake and causes dumb plays like this to happen. It also allows pick-offs to happen with a dead ball. None of these things should ever happen if the umps do their job. If they do try a hidden ball trick from a dead ball, the PU should announce the ball isn't live and restart the game. Some guys don't see it as a big deal until it bites them in the butt'

Maybe coaches should spend more time teching their players to run field throw and hit than this stuff

Will


Well said !!!

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
If the entire infield decided to have a meeting at the mound (without the coach - stays in dugout) would this automatically be a time out if the action had stopped?

All of Congress can come together, the ball is live.