Time to get serious?

I see a lot of "I" and "as parents." What does your son want?

IF it is truly your son's goal to play at the next level he will motivate himself to do the extra things such as conditioning, hitting, etc. Your encouragement is good but don't force him to do something unless he truly wants to. If he wants to be a better ballplayer he will want to put in the work.
Growing up in the baseball hotbed of Northeast Wisconsin where their is one select team north of Milwaukee and a lack of facilities and quality coaching sometimes the most that can be done on a -10 day in January is dry swings in front of the mirror in the basement or going through catching and fielding footwork. Crude but it still got done.

I have a 16YO so I have just gone through this.
He was not the same size as your son at 14 (and he WISHES he was 185 now!), but we waited until he started his freshman year and he (still) goes to the best strenth and conditioning coach we could/can afford. He doesn't work out at the local health club, but with a professional that does sports specific traning. We have seen too many kids get hurt over the years and decided to go the slow-and-steady route. One tip I heard years ago, and I don't know if it is true at all or not, that is to not have teens start weight training until they start growing facial hair. This trainer has "in season" and "out of season" workouts. In Texas, isn't it "in season" all year?!? My son is quite motivated because he gets to drive to the sessions now! The motivation needs to be there. He got home from working out about an hour ago and he is in the backyard hitting now. Have him enjoy playing 3 sports for as long as he can. Keewartson dropped his second sport on his own this year as a soph to continue working out at night and to take a few batting and speed lessons. Doing "it all" and homework just became too much.

If you can get a teenage boy motivated to do something he otherwise doesn't want to do, please post how you did it!

There are plenty of stories about kids for whom the light went on later in their high school years. It would be nice if they all caught on early.

That being said, I'm a big believer in a conditioning program to minimize the risk of injury.

jp24;

That was a well worded, insightful post. It is a fine line between being supportive, providing guidance or directing. 14U is about the point that they begin to tune Dad out to some extent. His desire to continue playing other sports is a good thing but it can complicate matters. That will likely sort itself out though.

If baseball is his passion and his preference then your gentle suggestion to begin more focused preparation is right on target. Baseball is a skill sport and repetition is the only way to hone those specialized skills, in particular hitting or pitching. The suggestion to spend more time in the cage is easy to accomplish and he will see the results very quickly.

I would suggest areas that my boy might want to improve and wait to see how receptive he was and whether he was ready to commit to the work. In most cases he did but the he had "to own the idea" as his own before it would happen!

If he's already matured, at 6' and 185lbs @ 14 he may well be, then he may need to focus on what will help him in all his sports; speed and strength! He should get committed in the weight room and on speed and agility. Likely, others could grow bigger than he so getting strong and fast are paramount, in my mind, to ensure he stays competitive as the others mature.

I think you have a balanced, well intended take on this and I appreciate your question. Good luck and enjoy these years and encourage him to have fun first!

jp24,
Welcome!
6' 185 at 14, live in TX and not in HS yet, good grades, I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you feel that he needs to trim down a bit.
As long as he's being active I would relax and leave him alone.

For now.....

JMO.

Go Cardinals!

One thing about this website is everthing that goes around comes around. I think I posted something similar last year. Although son has been a little better, it still is not enough in my opinion. But, I will wait patiently for the light to come on. I've seen it with the upperclassmen, but he is only a sophmore (that has been given his varsity position as catcher since he was freshman). His teammates say he works hard at practice, but he does not have great commitment outside of that (in my opinion). I do not want to push because it will do no good. He has to want it.

If baseball is very important to your son, pushing him to work shouldn't be a problem

This is what I'd do -- ask him, what are your goals for baseball? Does he want to play in college? Does he want scholarship money?

If he has those high goals, then you push him to do the adequate amount of work if he does not do it himself. Stress to him that you don't care as parents if he doesn't have lofty goals. If he does indeed have lofty goals, then he must put in the work to achieve them and a good parent makes sure that happens. When he resists, ask him if those goals have changed. If so, then so be it. Encourage him to a better student, etc. If not, then it's time to work and he'll be glad for it in the long run.

Thanks all. I sure tried hard to be clear -- but obviously wasn't clear enough, according to RJM ... this truly is all about what HE wants. Actually -- what he CLAIMS to want, and has for years. While we'd love to see him go far, it isn't (and never has been), about what we want. He envisions himself going far in baseball ... our job up to now has been to support and encourage.

I'm just trying to get a handle on how much to push now that he's a young man ... and much of what you've shared is very helpful.

TPM -- not an ounce of fat

With all due respect but I agree with RJM that there are a lot of "I's" and "we's". I'm all for parental guidance and structure but you can't want it for them. Pushing them won't help because at some point they have to want it themselves.

Every kid wants to go far in baseball or basketball or football or whatever sport they love. But very few stop dreaming of it and make it happen. Right now it might just be your son is on the fence of just dreaming intead of making it happen. Sounds like he's had a ton of success in baseball and that's great but sometimes that can be the worst thing for motivation. Maybe he needs to fail at some point in baseball to get motivated.

I wish your son luck and hope the light goes on pretty quickly.

jp24,
I am a sort of year ahead of you. My son is still 14, but is a freshman this year. Same type of kid--wants to be good at lots of things and so far has done a good job. He has also matured early, but I was not in a hurry for him to start lifting. What I did instead was get a pull-up/leg-lift/push-up tower for the garage and a medicine ball that wound up in the living room. He has ended up using both of them quite a bit because it was fun enough and they were readily accessible.

I suggest you think in terms of making it convenient to work out, and let your son provide his own motivation. If he is currently at the top of his peer group, more motivation may not kick in until he sees himself competing against older, better players. High School will do that. After freshman football my son started wanting to hit the weight room on his own and the timing was about right for him.

I get that you don't want to push, and I have no doubt you've been a help to him in all the great things he is doing now, but I have come to realize that I have to change my role as my son goes through the stage where establishing independence and his own identity are essential. If I seem more interested in my son doing something than he is, I now stop and think about that--even if I think it should be obvious to him. Sometime one too many suggestions ends up being counterproductive, and you don't want to create a situation where he is less interested in it because you are more interested in it.

At this point I think all you can really do is to try and inspire rather then tell him he's not working hard enough. I tried taking my son to some HS, then college games and sent him to a couple of college camps so he could see how competitive it is out there. Honestly, I think he was more inspired by his HS football coach to work hard then anything I did or said, although going to the college games was an eye opener.

I've been through this with two kids. When they declared they wanted it, I asked how they thought they would get there. Then I added what I knew. We came up with a plan together. I provided the resources to get it done.

After that the only thing I did to push was ask "Are you achieving your goals while .... " the few times I felt they were not doing what needed to be done. I never specifically told them what it was they weren't doing. When they weren't getting it done, they knew. It was my way of getting them to move without push back.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
I've been through this with two kids. When they declared they wanted it, I asked how they thought they would get there. Then I added what I knew. We came up with a plan together. I provided the resources to get it done.

After that the only thing I did to push was ask "Are you achieving your goals while .... " the few times I felt they were not doing what needed to be done. I never specifically told them what it was they weren't doing. When they weren't getting it done, they knew. It was my way of getting them to move without push back.

Although NYson2017 is a year younger than JP24's, and there is a very long way to go, I've taken the same approach.

I've often told him "you're driving the bus, I'm just paying for the gas".

My parents while not consistently nagging would always remind me that they are forced to sacrifice time and money for my "dream" and as such I better reciprocate them by doing my best at it. I didn't have to succeed, but I did have to work at it. While I never was happy to hear that when I felt like being lazy that day, I'm pleased to have heard it in the long run.

JP24,
Enjoy your last year of "non" High School baseball. It goes by quick. Your son sounds like he already has a strong desire and work ethic. They may need alittle motivation now and then, but it's still about having fun which it sound like yall do.

When he becomes a freshman, if he is in any of the major sports, most schools will have a workout program. It is also motivating at that time to see the size and strength of the upper classmen. If they really want it, it will dawn on them that they have alot of ground to make up if they want to compete for a JV or Varsity spot. As others have said, just provide the avenue, it's their's to travel.

Good Luck!

I chuckle to myself when I read some of
these posts with the I and we is it not better if the boy does this all on hisown

I had three boys play college ball and they needed no pushing from mommy and daddy---they cut their own deals at local fitness centers and found their own teams for summer play in hs---10 years hence are kids so different?

quote:

Originally posted by NYdad2017:

I've often told him "you're driving the bus, I'm just paying for the gas".

jp24:

I'm going to preface this by telling you that my son is a year ahead of yours and has had many of the same experiences with good travel teams, national tournaments, doing well compared to peers to this point, etc. He was, a year ago at the age your son is, about an inch smaller and 20-25 lbs lighter, but close enough that the comparisons between your post and how I felt going into this freshman year that your post hit home for me.

The short answer to your question is, YES, I think it is time to step it up. HOWEVER (and this is a big "however") there is a good reason why most of the answers have focused on being patient enough to allow your child to find the desire and motivation to do the work himself. If he has the passion for the game, it will come, but it probably won't come because you tell him it is necessary and he should do it.

I know that, with my kid, I tried to gently press him to do the things (weight lifting, running) that he didn't want to do (he eagerly does the extra hitting and pitching asked of him, as he enjoys that). I always told him that I knew what was around the corner and just wanted him to be prepared, and that I would never ask him to do something because I wanted him to do it, but only because in my experience it was necessary to the achievement of the dreams he has always said he has.

In hindsight, I approached it wrongly. I like the way RJM described the conversation he had with his kids, and I also think there is nothing wrong with the way JPontiac described his parents' gentle prodding. First, take RJM's advice and have a conversation about what their goals are, what they think a reasonable path is to achieving those goals, and if they aren't being entirely realistic about how much work it will take, add your $0.02 based on your experience (or perhaps better yet, have their trusted coach do that, or at least reiterate what you say). Along the way, make it clear that while this is THEIR path, there is a partnership of sorts here in that if he isn't putting the effort in, there is no sense throwing good money after bad effort. The checkbook isn't endlessly open, and requires some reciprocal effort.

In other words, our job is to provide the means to the end, their job is to put in the effort to take full advantage of those means. Whether they get to that end or not should not matter, only that they gave it their best shot trying to get there. As parents, we choose to support this dream and it should never be held hostage to whether they experience success, even if it may be tied to whether they put the effort in. And by all means, I do not mean that to sound like some kind of extortion, where I say "this is your choice" but in reality I mean "if you don't do what I think is necessary I won't pay for this." There is admittedly a fine line there, but I think it is important to stay on the other side of that one.

As several have said, these kids know when they are goofing off, and sometimes they need to goof off a little. BE PATIENT. Many times a kid who is as talented as your kid appears to be won't find the necessary motivation to approach this with consistent effort until he sees clearly that he can no longer be the caliber of player he has always been doing it "his way" (whatever that is - and I use that term also because whatever YOU say will automatically be viewed as "your way" and not "his way"), and some additional effort or training is necessary. For freshmen, I think that pretty naturally comes when they try to compete for a varsity position, at least in bigger schools/conferences.

Before that point, anything more than an occasional, gentle reminder of the "plan" you originally came up with together is likely to be counter-productive, and if better & more consistent effort & work doesn't come until he realizes how deep the water is in the particular pond he has jumped into, it is far from too late for him as a freshman. BE PATIENT. If he has the passion, he will figure it out on his own, and everyone will be happier.

Not sure I added anything of value that hasn't already been said, but I think this thread is timely for you and if I had the benefit of reading it even six months ago, I would have done a few things differently.

Good luck.

Good post EF! The drive has got to come from the player. There will be adversity. It must be the player who has the motivation to carry through whatever happens, including injury, poor play, politics....etc. Went through similar things with my son who had to overcome significant injuries, including a broken hand from an inside pitch his soph year, a knee injury his senior year and fortunately is playing ball at the next level. It took a helluva lot of perseverance on his part to come back from the adversity that inevitably occurs as a part of this journey. Baseball is a game of overcoming set-backs, just like life, and while we as parents can provide opportunities and resources for that journey, we cant take it for them, we have our own to make.

His brain and body are still doing an enormous amount of growth and development, be patient and let it happen, nurture it where you can, but mostly stay out of the way and let him find his drive to get there. If its your "drive" he won't be able to sustain it, if its his, he will do everything he can to get there.

Good luck and keep the faith, sometimes thats the best resource we can provide to them. Love, support no matter what happens, and their belief in you that no matter what happens you will be there for them. They will wonder about their talent and ability, you can't waver in your belief in them as a person and a player.

J23

I believe that leaving it totally up to the kid to motivate and self start is for the most part going to end up with no start. Both my older sisters are incredible piano players, and both know that my mom is about 80% responsible for that ability. If she had left them alone to practice and arrange for their own lessons and teachers, neither of them would be able to play a lick. To this day both are grateful my mother pushed. Todays baseball has become so competitive that not being involved as a parent, not picking the kid up and helping motivate when he isnt doing it himself, risks being left behind. The parental push needs to always be tempered by asking the boy if he enjoys baseball still. Ask his friends if he complains about you behind your back. These will be indications that you are pushing too hard. Girlfriends are sometimes great sources of info.

jp24,

Until you mentioned the 0% BMI, you could have been talking about my son one year ago. OK, he’s also a notch below major-level travel.

Sounds like you’ve already figured out that there’s no one right way. For me, personality has really dictated the strategy. When I was a kid, I’d spend hours alone shooting hockey pucks into an old sheet of plywood in the garage. No one told me to get out there and practice, I just loved doing it. Son is not like me. He’s very social (and also very competitive) and he works much harder when he’s around other kids. He’ll hit balls off the tee all day long with a group of friends, but rarely when home alone.

I’ve realized two things. First, he does have some talent, but he isn’t going to be like Larry Bird and work on his game alone all day and night. It’s just not his make-up. Second, there are ways I can help him make the most of his talent without “forcing” him. For example, instead of one-on-one coaching, small group training sessions work much better. I also make sure that he shows up to every workout that the school offers, because of the (positive) peer pressure and feedback.

Like some others, high school has been great for his maturation. He played JV s****r and freshman basketball earlier in the year. Made lots of friends, improved his fitness, and made a good impression with the AD and coaches from other sports (baseball and football). Recently he made the JV baseball team, but he quickly realized that he would have made varsity if he were a little faster and stronger, things he has some control over. He’s already signed up for summer conditioning at the school, and you can be sure that mom and dad will get him there.

If he grows a little more and works hard, I think he will have an opportunity to play college ball. He will attend a few 1 or 2 day college camps this summer (with a friend), and I’m hoping that will help him decide just how much he wants to play in college. I also think that he will appreciate a professional evaluation of his skills much better than hearing it from dad.

One last observation. I was getting concerned in Jan and Feb when I felt like son wasn’t preparing himself properly for the coming baseball tryouts. He was having some unexpected success playing basketball, and was really working hard at that. When I talked to him about "my" concerns, he said that he just wanted to focus all of his energy into basketball. Hard to argue with that. Son is a good kid and a good student, and I figure he’s doing more than his part.

Enjoy.

Having been on these boards for a short period of time but finding tremendous benefit from everyone's perspective I'd like to nominate this as a golden thread. A bit presumptuous in my part maybe since I am new but great insights shared.

ok so here goes my .02 worth. i am sure i will get blasted by some because i am new at this. 2outdouble made some very good points. even though my son is a 2015 and is my only boy, i have raised 3 daughters that cheered competitively. i agree there is a VERY fine line with my approach, but as midatlantic dad points out, very few kids are self-starters. how many of us as adults procrastinate daily? its not because we are lazy but sometimes we just get off course. we often need someone or something to refocus us. as adults, that often comes in the form of a spouse or other things like the mortgage, light bill, etc. so many have had reservations about "pushing" the athlete, but very few seem to have a problem with "pushing" the student. now dont get me wrong, i, as well as most it appears on this sight, feel that my children's education is the most important thing they have. but 3 of my 4 kids have required serious motivation/accountability on mom and dad's part. from threats to tears, you name it and ive been there. when it comes to the athletic side for my son, i have no problem with prodding him down the path he has chosen. now if he says, dad im done, then so be it. as long as he continues to want to get to the next level in sports, whatever that level is, i will be there for him. once he is out of my house, obviously he will have to do it on his own. but even then, i am sure most of you agree that kids are not necessarily self-motivated but have a coach, an upperclassmen or someone that is constantly pushing them. yes there is that rare athlete that works his/her butt off with no need for outside motivation, but i imagine this is the exception not the rule. sorry to be so long-winded, but i personally see no problem with me holding my son accountable. i totally agree with the conversation concerning son's goals and how best to achieve them. even in that scenario, the partent is still having to hold son accountable. as 2outdouble states, i think it will be obvious when that line is crossed. the bottom line is most teens think like teens and often dont see the big picture. that is where i think it is the parent's job to step in and help them look past today. if you are too patient and wait too long, the opportunity could be missed.

The Op posted a question concerning the motivation of his 14 yr. old baseball playing son.

What surprises me somewhat in many responses is the apparent belief that teen-agers ARE NOT capable of self motivation and as such, the parents must do it for them??

WOW. I missed something raising my four who have all now successfully negotiated their way through the teen age years, through college, and into parenthood and life.

Had I known, I could still be making decisions for them!

Twogun, Twooutdouble: My wife says HALLELUJAH to your posts. She's of the "push 'em hard" until they say they don't want it school

Me? I'm just digesting all of these thoughtful and provocative replies... and being grateful such a forum exists.

So far, RJM's guidance resonates with me, and (in spite of all those pesky "I's" in it) makes a ton of sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Prime9:
The Op posted a question concerning the motivation of his 14 yr. old baseball playing son.

What surprises me somewhat in many responses is the apparent belief that teen-agers ARE NOT capable of self motivation and as such, the parents must do it for them??

WOW. I missed something raising my four who have all now successfully negotiated their way through the teen age years, through college, and into parenthood and life.

Had I known, I could still be making decisions for them!

Good post and I agree.

The problem is that often moms and dads get confused as to whose journey it really is, and that reading and hearing about all the recruiting, draft stories, etc. makes them anxious and a need to put the cart in front of the horse, so to speak. I know, we were there once and we learned real fast what our role really should be (as you will as well).

jp24,
What is it that you want for your son? He doesn't need to get any bigger, you state he has been successful with his natural talents, smart, works hard on the field and at practice. What more of a commitment do you want from a 14 year old? There is nothing more he needs to do but to keep playing the game and getting better. He can hit the gym when he goes to HS.

If you have never pushed him, why would you have to do it now?

To answer your questions:

#1 Yes, I think it is too early for serious conditioning and extra work. FWIW, you don't know what serious really is for that until after HS anyway. Just keep playing and having FUN!
#3 Son was serious about playing after HS, he did well in class (with all honors), never missed a practice or a game (even when ill HS or travel ball) and had a HS social life and worked a part time job. He went to the gym and worked his body age appropriate when he had time. He spent lots of time doing other sports and that was his way to stay in shape. He managed to get a great scholarship at a great D1 program without us bugging him anymore than "did you do your homework or don't miss curfew and don't drink and drive or get in someone's car who has been (drinking)". That was serious, to us anyway.

Stop worrying, enjoy the moments.

I never had to push son . He was self motivated (driven) I just provide opportunity.

I return to this post with the following observations. Lets all agree that every post is probably correct. We all come from and with perspective that has been gained from our own upbringing and the different children we have raised. I agree that too much pushing on the part of the parents is wrong and ends in unhappy kids. You can also be completely hands off and still have them living with you at age 32, wondering when the hell they'll get a life, wishing you'd exercised some parental bulldozering when you had a chance. Each kid is different. Some need no pushing, not the case with my son. Some need a little pushing, this is true of my 16 yr old. Some need no pushing at all, mostly true of my 7 yr old. We are now raising kids in an environment very different from what some of you raised kids in even 10 yrs ago. As long as you ask yourself at least weekly--whose goals am I pushing, mine or my kids--and answer it honestly, you will probably do fine.