To cut or not to cut

Maybe cut, it's up to the philosophy of the org.  Often if you don't cut to improve the team, the better kids will move to a more competitive team.

 

But I've suggested to my son's org to carry 13 kids on roster.  It cuts the pitching load up.  We had 10 kids for most tournaments last year, often played 5 games on a weekend.  Just too much of a pitching load to spread around.  (same age group as your son)

 

JMO, cutting is a reality.

At 14U thats a tough one.  Did these kids know they were in danger of being cut before tryouts?  The teams my son has played on over the years let the kids know if they are on the fence before tryouts.  That way a cut isn't a complete surprise.  The philosophy of these teams is such that your tryout was basically your previous season and unless you were talked to you should make the team.  The only way to not make the team would be to show up to tryouts with an attitude or show up and not put much effort into the tryouts.

What is your purpose for having the team?  Is it a business? Is it to develop college prospects? 

 

Do you have teams in more than one age group? 

 

Do you have the resources to establish a "B" team and give them enough development opportunities that they can move up if they get better, faster, stronger?

 

How far behind the others are the three projected cuts? How surprised will they be to get cut? 

 

What expectations have been created, either explicitly or otherwise?

 

 

       
       
yes we are.carrying 13 this year.  And our pitching will be incredibly deep with at least 6 kids throwing 75mph plus.  Perhaps a couple at 80+.  I get all that.  Its just sad.

       
       
I like it.  And.no.they were.not.given a heads up before.

In son's org, it's all paid coaches, no dads.  Also, it's made clear to everyone it is a tryout team every season, so everyone is "released" and has to tryout again next time around.

yeah, it sucks for sure. 

I never was good at that part of it.  When I was coaching football we never really cut in that age group, but, those teams are a lot larger.  I would get charged with working one on one or one on two with the kids that needed more attention skill wise.  It was great fun and very rewarding.  

Carrying 13 guys for a tourney does not seem like a ton.  I have seen way too many teams that carry 13 or 14 guys show up to tourneys with 9 or 10 because guys can't make it.  Seeing pitchers not even being able to warm up properly makes me nuts.  The flip side is a larger roster means there will be kids that don't play much and the parents will get angry. 

The travel team my son played for from 15-19 you had to be invited for tournaments when he started at 14.  He practiced, payed dues, worked out ect. and never got invited, he wasn't good enough being pretty new to baseball.  Several other travel team organizations opened in the next couple of years so their typical 14U team went from having 27 or so guys to having 12.  Things change.  Letting a kid know, ok, you are going to be a developmental player....work on skills in practice and go to tourneys but, you will have limited playing time unless someone else gets hurt, can't make it or you improve enough....that could be one way to go, but, parents would probably just find a lesser team so their kid could play.  

For the 19U team in the group my son played for they carried a roster of 25.  Plenty of POs.  Different at that age and it really is much better.  But, at 14, you wanna play every game.  

My son's 16u team definitely needed to cut at least two players.  I think having a try out for higher competitive teams is a must.

Just went through this in volleyball with my youngest.  Had played for the top dogs in town for 4 years.  Never on their top team but solid player.  Lots of friends and time invested in this club.  This year she got cut loose.

 

Ultimately has turned out the best for her.  Facilitated a good parent and child conversation about realistic goals (she is going to be 5'7) and where she should be.  We were able to get her into a smaller club with two teams and frankly it is where she should be and it allows us to have an idea of who her coach will be going forward vs. trying to win the coach lottery at the big, multiple teams per age club that she was at before.

 

Cuts are part of the competitive process and IMO provide the opportunity to teach a good life lesson.   After some expected tears she pulled herself up and moved on.  Made the HS team as an incoming freshman and after the first weekend of scrimmages looks like she will not leave the floor much.  It's not the end of the world if the parents don't allow it to be.  

 

Also why stay at a higher level team if your son/daughter is not valued.  "Go where you are loved" starts way before college.

I think it depends what the goal of the team is.  Is it to win as many tourney as possible or is it more about player development?

If the goal is player development there certainly can be a case made for carrying less refined players. 

Here is my experience.  Most coaches hope to "improve" their team each year.  Many take the easy way out and try to find "better" players.  But this is a never ending cycle.  When my kid was 11, he was a "bubble" player.  He made the team, but not before they added 3 new players.  There was all this talk about "upgrades."  They cut one boy who really had talent and potential, but was just a little immature (nobody was hitting better then him the last 1/4 of the year).  I looked at the upgrades and laughed.  Well the team was pretty good due to the original group and the "upgrades" didn't last a year.  The one boy who was cut, moved on, grew to be 6-3 and is pushing to start SS at his ultra competitive HS team. 

 

The next 2 years, the coach turned over the roster.  Brought in all the "big" kids.  Won a lot.  Today, half the team is out of the game. 

 

Contrast to one of the better teams in our area.  They were less than .500 when they started.  Yes, each year one or two kids would drop out voluntarily and move on.  But the coach (a former college an milb guy) stuck with the kids and taught them baseball.  By the time they where 14, they couldn't loose. 

 

Surprise cuts are absolutely wrong at this age group IMO. 

       
       
See this is exactly what I believe.  Coach them u p.   After all you originally picked them.  And as kids leave replace them.  And as you get older its ok to have a little larger team.  But I hate cuts.

There's a place for kids who don't want to be cut. It's called rec ball. If a kid wants to play at a higher level of competition he needs to learn to compete. A 14u player is entering high school the following year. He needs to learn the harsh reality of working for it and earning it.

That really depends on the coach and the coaching!

 Competitive teams should always cut and improve the team. There is Rec ball for all the parents that can't stomach this type of format. I have know a few parents that want to play on a competitive team for all the benefits, as long as their son wasn't on the chopping block.

2016 Played for an org. that didn't cut.Yes we added but the added part was 95% pitchers.This years team had basically the same problem the 15u team had.A whole bunch of single and or non hitting kids.The team is an above .500 team and should've been with the pitching  staff assymbled.Whats the goal of team is a great question.Thats the thing everyone needs to be on the same page with.Otherwise it will lead to problems.I like the letting kids know thier on the bubble.When 2016 was 10 and retried out for same team and didn't make it.Till he got to H.S. i always told him not to forget what happened.Do/should the kids that played one yr. and didn't make team the next get/deserve a phone call?What if your the only one to get cut?Phone call then?

Well each kid should have an evaluation done at the end of the year.  Let them know where they stand.  If they are a sure cut or on the bubble, they can move on elsewhere.  But that's the thing.  The coach wants to hold all the cards.  If he is honest with the kid, chances are the kid will move on and the coach will be left with replacing the kid with an "inferior" player when nobody better shows up. 

 

Based on our experience more talented players will move on without cuts. My son started at 12U on a pretty decent team with potential to be a very good team. Coaches were great, former college players with kids on the team. Very fair with playing time etc;. Problem was as they got older some of the kids didn't develop so had a disparity in talent from top to bottom. Plans to get in the bigger and better tournaments with better competition never happened because we weren't good enough to compete. Coach never cut, had opportunities to pick up better players but passed because he didn't want more than 12 players. Last couple of years more talented players finally moved on to better programs (as we did) for better chances of exposure. The team folded due to lack of players leaving the marginal players searching for a team. I'd say you'd do everyone a favor by cutting and upgrading if the opportunity is there. Easier for the weaker players to find a program the younger they are.

       
       

The goal is to compete in showcase tournaments and be seen.  Can't do that if you don't get to the winners bracket.  The PG tournament in Georgia showed me that. Once kids in my son's tournament team reached high school there was only one practice because of high school ball running up to travel ball.
Even though my son didn't play on that team at 14u & 15u by the time he got back on it this year I could tell there were two kids that wouldn't progress much further.

The original post was about youth baseball -- 14 and under. 

 

Once you hit high school, it all depends what the team is for.  If it is to go and compete on a national scale at the PG events, then yes you better have the 15 or so best players in your region to have a snowballs chance.  However, most teams are designed to really just keep playing. 

I am all for cutting.  No I don't want my son to get cut, but if he does, then that is a learning opportunity for him and hopefully will give him something to work towards.  The more "better" kids on the team, the more they are going to get better as well just due to friendly competition amongst themselves.

 

Anyway, just my $.02.  I have nothing to base this on other then my own theory.

       
       
Yes we botched the handling of it as well.  Phone call for sure.  But as golf said the coach wants to hold all the cards.  So they called kids piecemeal and made offers as they looked at who they may or may not pick up.  Three kids lingered.  Two were cut and one was 'invited back' with a playing time prognosis that would make even the most determined players go away.  The coaches should have waited til all their decisions were made.  Then personally call the cuts.  Then send out a mass e mail/text to those that made it.

Thanks for all your responses.  A top shelf salt of the earth kid and by extension family was cut.  Kid is like a brother to my son.  My son was crushed.  Talked about leaving the team or maybe making a B Team and playing with these guys.  But ultimately after some of the hurt and anger subsided I guess we realized what a lot of you confirmed here.  He chose this path.  We all knew what we were getting into.  His dream is to play college ball and an organization like his is the way to do it.  They are getting darn near 100% to college programs.  And organization is only a few years old.  When you get down to the 2019's 2020's and younger probably anyone who can survive til 17u will be a college player.  So the key is to realize they can still be your friends.  You are here for the love of.the game but also to push yourself to your limit.  It can be a cold cruel world but again its what he chose.  Just so sad to see a team that got along so well be chopped up.  That being said the kids coming in seem like good kids.  One played with us part time this year and is a great kid.  And they are.all a bundle of talent.  Never know til we take the field but we should be really special next year.  I look at one of the teams PG had ranked top 25 nationally who we played this year...  they whooped us but with the kids we picked up I think we can play with them.  Time will tell.  My son will get over it.  And then he will have a blast I am sure being part of what should be a monster team.

Don't beat yourself up too much 2020. No perfect way to make cuts.

As I stated in my response earlier in the thread my daughter was recently cut by a big club after 4 years of playing for them.  She found out by walking to the gym wall with all her friends. At that point it was clear to me that that large club had no soul and was time and good to move on.

The problem is that you can't have a team of 12 short stops and no. 3 hitters.  On a really good team, you can have a great player hitting 9th and playing LF.  Eventually, he'll leave for greener pastures -- more at bats and playing SS.  To be successful over the long term, you want to balance your team.  Natural attrition will allow you to "upgrade" players. 

       

I'll agree with you in younger age groups, not so much when kids are older. Think OP was referencing 14U's?