To Many Curveballs?

Coach, I just started a thread on general discussions about this. I took the time to count last nights 12 yr old from Illinois. The kid threw 102 pitches, but 62 were curves and only 40 fastballs. The coach was calling pitches. Orel didn't say much other that that the kids were bulldogs. BS is what it all is.

You know most people who watch it have no clue anyway. The announcers know better but they cant sit there and say what they actually feel or they would get fired. The coaches just want to win period. The players are just doing what the coach wants them to do. The parents think that little Johnny is going to the show because he is a LL star. When he gets in HS he will still be throwing 70 and his rinky dink cb will get deposited in the bleachers. And then it will be the HS coaches fault because coach Billy in LL was his best coach only if he could coach the HS team.

One curveball for a LL Pitcher can be too much

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Billy in LL was his best coach only if he could coach the HS team.

Do what they do with everything else. make a rule.

Each year, at the varsity level, I have kids come in that can't effectively throw a change-up. We work hard to make this a very effective pitch. Almost all come in to high school claiming the have a good curveball. This is a trend that we really need to correct. Teach younsters how to spot the fastball and throw a change-up. Then when they get to high school let them slowly start to develop a PROPERLY thrown curve. It would save a lot of young arms.

quote:

Originally posted by hsballcoach:
Each year, at the varsity level, I have kids come in that can't effectively throw a change-up...Teach younsters how to spot the fastball and throw a change-up. Then when they get to high school let them slowly start to develop a PROPERLY thrown curve. It would save a lot of young arms.

I completely agree.

This is the approach I'm taking with my son and the kids I coach.

Why don't more coaches teach the younger players to keep the ball in play by effectively using the fastball (2 seam, 4 seam) and focus more on striking players out with the change up? Is the change that hard to learn?
I know son didn't use curveballs early and has many variations of a change because of that.

Is it because of poor defensive skills in the infield/outfield?

Seems to me, if more had a chance to field the ball, instead of watching their pitcher strike them out one by one with the curve ball, wouldn't you be developing a better all around team and player? And helping the pitcher to remain healthy?

IMO - You have to be nuts to allow a 12 year old kid to throw curve balls.

Its the easy way out.

Unfortunately, if the kids don't throw curveballs, they don't get much playing time, as a lot of coaches feel it is a necessary pitch. So they throw curveballs so they can get game time. Horrible, vicious circle.

With due respect I think most people blame every arm injury on CBs when it is not even close to true. I have been watching young pitchers for the last 11 years and I see as many if not more catchers injured than pitchers. I am sure there is an explanation for that. Further more there are different types of arm injuries and I believ there are reasons for each type of injury and it is not just CBs.
As I have said before my son is 20 and has thrown CBs since he was 10. Not even close to arm/shoulder problems. We researched every sapect of pitching and strongly disagree that a CB thrown properly is more stressful that a FB. Most of the ptchers that I know who were injured over the years threw very hard at a young age. They relied on overpowering the batter and a lot of them never learned how to pitch.

A curve ball thrown properly. How many 12 year olds are taught the proper way to throw a curve ball? How many 12 year olds are "taught to throw a curve ball at all". Most teach themselves by experimenting. How many rec level coachs (I say rec level because thats the age at which they are most vulnerable to learning poor habits) know how to teach the proper way to throw a curve ball? Can all parents afford to send their son to a private pitching coach who may know how to teach the youngster a curve ball? The fact is the safe alternative is to not allow them to be used in the first place at such a young age. If you are right what have we lost by not allowing kids to throw curve balls at a young age? If you are wrong what are the ramifications? Learn how to pitch at a young age not take advantage of young kids that have not learned how to hit yet. One day the kids will know how to hit and if you have relied on trickery and have not learned how to pitch your days as a pitcher will be over. I do feel that the cb ball puts much more stress on the arm than the fb. Even if thrown properly there is more stress. I wonder why ml skippers limit the amount of cb's rooks throw? One they want to limit the stress on the investment and two they want them to learn how to get good hitters out by relying on the fb and change and location especially. One of my players a lh pitcher was drafted a couple of years ago and he was not allowed to throw a cb at all during his first short season in the Gulf Coast League. He was told that he needed to learn how to get guys out with location of his fastball and he needed to learn to trust his cu. And they did not want him putting undue stress on his arm. He now is in double AA and told me this summer that he only throws 4 or 5 cb's a game. He throws it just to let the other team know he has it. These kids throw so many cb's because it is effective. The coaches call it because it is effective. The fact that it can cause harm is over weighed in their minds by the desire to win at all costs. Catchers have arm problems , of's have arm problems and so do inf's. There are other causes of arm problems other than throwing cb's. Im glad your son has not had any problems with his arm and I hope he never does. But hey people run across traffic everyday and most do not get hit by cars. But I would not recommend it would you?

Are you saying that kids with good arms at a young age should not try to throw hard because they might hurt their arm? They should rely on cb's to learn how to pitch? You said that most kids that hurt their arm are hard throwers at a young age. They try to overpower hitters. Are you saying that you should not throw with effort? Not sure what you are saying here. My experience around the game has told me that the kids that are have hurt arms are "usually" the ones that do not throw enough. They come out in feb and try to gas it and they have not picked up a ball since the summer. And the ones that have poor throwing mechanics usually the same kids.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
With due respect I think most people blame every arm injury on CBs when it is not even close to true. I have been watching young pitchers for the last 11 years and I see as many if not more catchers injured than pitchers.

I once came across a study out of Taiwan that made this point. They saw catchers being injured as much as pitchers.

That suggests that overuse is the real problem.

Personally I don't think it is any one thing. Some pitchers are just plain durable and others are not. Good mechanics, great work ethics go a long way in keeping a player injury free but the act of throwing is a very stressful motion.
My son would also be by any standards an over used pitcher but he always took his 4 days between outings except for a few occasions. If he was tired he would throw a lot of offspeeds and try to get pop ups and GBs. He is not a guy you can force to do what he dosen't feel up to even at 10yo. His coaches always asked if he was okay to continue and they all cared about his arm health. He never had soreness and would occassionally get a tired arm that did not respond as well as it should but no pain.

Bobblehead,
I agree with you, we can't blame injuries on one particular thing. Lots of things go into the factoring. But I think we can all agree that a 12 year old throwing over 100 pitches with 60% of them being curves IS NOT healthy.

I am sure if you asked 10 catchers if they ever had arm or shoulder problems they will all tell you yes. Is it from overuse or CONSTANT use? And many catchers will pitch also, sometimes in the same game.

The differnce we don't carry on is because the catcher can make a transition to another position or take time off and hit. Pitchers can't do that, most pitchers don't have that option, especially when they turn pro. An injury to them is usually career ending.

My son had two friends who developed arm problems when they were younger, both good pitchers. They didn't do TJS back then on kids, they became position players. Both are college players, both redshirted, both will most likely never have careers in baseball. They threw hard and threw curves.

I'm a 45 yr old former LL pitcher,and father of five boys, who is sitting here now with elbow pain that all started with too many curveballs in LL. No one will ever convince me that it's OK for LL's to throw curveballs.