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Too Easy to Transfer?

ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
Interesting discussion on D1 and D3 transfers from cstv.com. Thoughts?

http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/stories/012807aag.html

Same Game, New Team, No Year Off

College baseball's biggest impact transfers in 2007

Jan. 28, 2007

By Douglas Kroll

Doug Kroll is an assistant editor for CSTV.com, focusing on baseball.

It really doesn't make too much sense. In fact, many compare college baseball to its Major League brother because they have something in common besides the ball they play with.

An athlete in need of a change of scenery is nothing new at the collegiate level in any sport. In football, transfers are as normal as the game itself, except they come with a price to pay. Moving from one Division I school to another will result in having to sit out a year. The same goes for basketball.

Baseball does not have a rule in place that would keep a player out of the lineup for a year if he decides to pick up and move. This has led to many coaches comparing their sport to Major League Baseball's free agency, and for good reason.

Take the most recent case of outfielder Jarred Bogany who played his freshman year at LSU in 2006. Bogany played in 49 games including 42 starts in his only season in Baton Rouge and hit .319. Just last month the Houston native was granted his release from head coach Paul Mainieri and he has now settled with Arizona State, where he is on the roster and expected to contribute in 2007 for the Sun Devils. In some ways, it's worse than free agency. But it is easy to differentiate which transfers seem fair and which one's don't.

There are over 115 players who have changed jerseys from one Division I school to another since the last pitch of the 2006 season. One of the biggest names is Oklahoma State third-baseman Matt Mangini. The Cowboys reeled in quite a catch with Mangini, after he was one of the best hitters in the ACC at N.C. State a year ago.

The junior hit .343 for the Wolfpack and led the team with 60 RBI. He also started 60 of the team's 63 games. There are a lot of questions that come to mind in Mangini's case as to why he would head out of Raleigh. From an outside perspective, he seemed to be in a good situation, playing well for a good team. Unfortunately for N.C. State head coach Elliot Avent, things weren't as rosy as they seemed.

"[Mangini] came in his freshman year and expected to play right away," Avent said. "He's a good player but unfortunately for him and fortunately for N.C. State, Matt Devine beat him out and played all Spring, so that's when he really started to think about his options, because the kid wanted to play. He mulled it over several times after his freshman year and decided to stay, and thinks worked out well for him. But unfortunately at the end last year we had a freshman playing really well defensively that would go in late and play, and I don't think that sat well with him."

Mangini has found a new home with the Cowboys, and head coach Frank Anderson is excited to have him aboard.

"Well, he's a good player, he had a great summer," Anderson said. "He fits in well with our kids, and has made the transition. We expect him to have a good year."

Even with snagging one of the best pure hitters in the game, Anderson's feelings about the transfer rule hasn't changed from what it was before Mangini arrived on campus. Anderson feels the rule has to be changed.

"Obviously I've had some good transfers," Anderson aid. "I wish that we had the situation like football and basketball because it is too easy. Instead of a kid coming in and working into the lineup, as a sophomore or a junior, people want instant gratification and start right away or play a lot right away instead of fighting for a job. It's just so easy to transfer and get out. I would like to see us go with the same rule as there is in the other sports."

Anderson's counterpart at N.C. State agrees, but like Anderson, Avent felt that way before this summer.

"I've been a big proponent of changing it for years, since it first started," Avent said. "It started rapidly, and you'd go and play somebody and say `Wow, I don't remember that guy last year.' Whether it's their three-hole hitter or their closer, you'd end up saying `Wow, where'd they get him from?'

Even though many coaches are against the idea of transfers, they've had to conform to the idea and accept it as a reality.

"We used to not even talk to a transfer," Avent said. "If they called we'd just say we weren't interested, because we have long thought here at N.C. State that it's not good for college baseball. I've been a proponent against it for a long time, but after playing against so many transfers for so many years within the conference, and out of conference, and it getting so out of hand with other teams recruiting other team's players, that I made a point that I wouldn't get into the recruiting visits, but I wasn't going to turn my head to it either when it's such a lucrative business for so many schools."

On the other side of the spectrum, away from the Division I to Division I transfers, is a different type of free agency that is the one which makes sense to everyone involved. The top pitcher in collegiate baseball to change jerseys in 2007 didn't pitch for a big-time program last season. Charlie Furbush pitched for St. Joseph's of Maine, a Division III school in Standish, Maine for the last two seasons, but this year he will try and make the transition into the front of the LSU rotation.

Furbush put up some of the best numbers in the nation a year ago. The junior went 10-1 with a 2.89 ERA in 20 appearances, with five complete games in eight starts, and four saves. Talk about your do it all guy, Furbush also hit .286 with a homerun and 18 RBI.

The New England pitcher of the year in 2006 blossomed while playing with the Monks, in addition to back-to-back summers in the Cape Cod League where he got a taste of some of the best collegiate competition there is. It was after impressing the scouts and other coaches during the summer that Furbush knew it would be time to face that type of top competition day in and day out.

"It was after my first season [at St. Joseph's]," Furbush said. "My coach at St. Joe's knew that some colleges were going to start talking to me, and of course they did, and I was really interested at that time."

His coach at St. Joseph's, Will Sanborn, knew it was only a matter of time before Furbush took his game to another level.

"The interesting thing here is, the good news is that Charlie handled it really well all along," Sanborn said. "I knew even after his first year in the Cape Cod League that he was entertaining those ideas, and he kept me posted as we went along. I think he handled it the right way as far as with people here at St. Joseph's."

Bringing up the Cape Cod League, or other summer leagues for that matter, with coaches is sometimes a bitter topic. Some feel that it is where many coaches start the process of recruiting players that are already with collegiate teams. LSU's first-year coach, Paul Mainieri, even felt awkward scouting Furbush during the summer, despite the fact Furbush had made it clear that he was looking to move up to Division I.

"I felt very awkward having us go up to see Charlie [Furbush], because I didn't want people to look at the LSU coaches and say `Oh there's LSU hovering around trying to see who they can steal,'" Mainieri said. "We weren't trying to steal anybody, because this was a different situation, I really felt."

Furbush is expected to contribute immediately to the Tigers' starting rotation, and even could be the Friday night starter. His development of a change-up will be key says Mainieri, to his success at this level. But after two summers facing the best in the nation, Furbush isn't worried about the transition.

"It's obviously had its challenges," Furbush said. "But the Cape definitely prepared me. Without the Cape I wouldn't be here. Just playing against those players everyday, it was just a really great experience."

It makes sense that Furbush should be allowed to move up with out being penalized. Mangini and Bogany, it can be seen easily why so many coaches feel that the process is just way too easy. Not to mention the penalty schools face with its Academic Progress Rate (APR). Mainieri feels that is one of the worst parts about it.

"I think the reason that it's going to be changed is the effect that it has on the school's APR," Mainieri said. "I don't think it's very fair, that a school that did everything correctly, that worked with that young man and helped him academically and gave him the support, all the things they are supposed to do, and then the boy decides to change schools, simply because he didn't like it there, or he felt like he wasn't playing enough or didn't have a big enough scholarship.

Many feel the NCAA will institute a rule like in football or basketball eventually, but until then, we will keep seeing `free agents' across the nation, just trying to find the right situation or lineup they can thrive in.
Original Post

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S soxnole1,000+ posts
To me, Mangini is the problem situation. There should be a better reason than PT for transferring.

A player like Bogany should have every right to his release when the coaching staff is changed.

It go's without saying that when a fellow like Furbush in a D2, D3, even a low level D1 program wants to test himself at the next level, there should be a conduit. Those program's should not be surprised when a stud develops a roving eye.

I know some posters will not agree with the Furbush comment but that is my opinion.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
Soxnole who ya talkin about Big Grin

I'm old school here and say if someone makes a committment they should honor that committment. Schools go after guys for with the thought of developing their program over time, not someone elses. I understand there are holes in that thought process which includes playing time and academic problems at an existing school. What I don't agree with is a D1 player who uses a school as a stepping stone for a bigger stage. That is what the JUCO system is used for and that mentality puts "I before team". Those situations do exist and while a player should have the right to go to that bigger stage, maybe there would be second thoughts by the player if a coach who has lost the player would have the opportunity, and/or uses rules to put a 1 year "No-Play" type tag on that player who ditches his committment. In many cases there are as Coach Mainieri said "...Oh there's LSU hovering around trying to see who they can steal". That does happen, that is completely wrong, and those players should have to pay the price of jumping ship for personal gain. In some cases the school is not involved in the xfer but that coach should respect the previous teams committment to the player and hold him out of competition for a year.

Lower ranked schools are not a training ground and conduit for the "big boys". That is a pompus and musclehead attitude.

I know that teams have a right to resind/reduce a scholarship on a yearly basis, but that is only done in cases where rules were broken, academics, lack of committment, or other "TEAM" related issues. One of the big questions that a coach asks while sitting on your living room couch is whether he is willing to make a committment to his program because the program is willing to make a committment to him. What would a coach say if that player said, "Well, I'll stick with you for a couple years, but if Mr. Big comes along, I'm dumping you and moving on. I would definitly respect that persons honesty but he sure wouldn't be signing an NLI.
Last edited by rz1
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
quote:
posted by rz1: I know that teams have a right to resind/reduce a scholarship on a yearly basis, but that is only done in cases where rules were broken, academics, lack of committment, or other "TEAM" related issues.


Well, not so fast Mr. Icy Britches. Smile

There are kids at numerous programs that have scholarships reduced or ripped completely, based on nothing more than past on-field performance. I recall when John Cohen took over the Kentucky program 3 seasons ago he released several scholarship players.

Several players have their scholarships for next year "re-allocated" (without their knowledge of course), prior to the end of the season, based on their projected draft status, which may or may not pan out. Some "HSBBWeb Old Timers" fit in that group.

Not only are the crowds bigger in the SEC/ACC/PAC 10, the scholarships are more temporary.

I agree the commitment should be based on a 4 or 5 year term on both sides, but it is not even close.

the transfer rules are reasonable until the scholarship structures resembles football and basketball. You can't take a kids $$ away and not allow him to go find $$ somewhere else.
Last edited by Dad04
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Dad04:
Well, not so fast Mr. Icy Britches. Smile
the transfer rules are reasonable until the scholarship structures resembles football and basketball. You can't take a kids $$ away and not allow him to go find $$ somewhere else.


If your scolly is reduced that is a break in the committment from the teams standpoint and I am pro change in those situations. Shame on those teams, it's just as bad. I'm talking about the player who up and leaves for greener pastures with no cut in scholly or no coaching change and is accepted open arms by another school.

The teams that proper from the screwed up xfer rules are not going to want to change them because it feeds their programs. Football does it right but the way it stands now those who hold the "power" se that this works to their benifet so why push for change.
Last edited by rz1
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by illinirock:
How about changing the scholarships like basketball and football and giving everyone 100% and if they want to transfer make them sit out a year.
Great concept but 30 full rides in a non-income sport is bad business and would result in many teams cutting programs.
Last edited by rz1
S southernmom100+ posts
As long as the rules allow, a player transferring is his business. Just like a coach taking an opportunity to coach elsewhere. Realtively speaking, whether one wants to admit it or not, we rarely make choices based on someone else's needs or desires. Yes, it is a team sport, but not everyone on the team got there on the same path, as everyone's circumstances are different. Selfish as it may sound (but more importantly, honest as it is) our sons made their decisions based on their own needs.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by southernmom:
As long as the rules allow, a player transferring is his business. Just like a coach taking an opportunity to coach elsewhere. Realtively speaking, whether one wants to admit it or not, we rarely make choices based on someone else's needs or desires. Yes, it is a team sport, but not everyone on the team got there on the same path, as everyone's circumstances are different. Selfish as it may sound (but more importantly, honest as it is) our sons made their decisions based on their own needs.
An opportunity for an education is not a job and to say a coaches move is the same as a players xfer is, IMHO, apples and oranges.

I guess I raised my kids to respect their committments and question them if the other side would reneg. I'll have to work on stressing to them the fact that the world is an "I" game and committments you make, you do not have to stand behind. It's a privilage to be asked to play baseball and get an education.

If the other side "does wrong" to you that is a different issue. But, because they may have the opportunity to screw you that does not make it right to do the same. That makes you just as bad.
Last edited by rz1
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
rz...Obviously you haven't seen the programs in the SEC.

They couldn't possibly lose money in their baseball programs.

John, I may be from WI but I'm not a complete idiot. Where did I say the SEC would lose money? I may have not specified but I was was speaking of the ~225 other D1 programs who do not make money from the baseball program.
Last edited by rz1
FrankFFrankF1,000+ posts
Gotta agree with rz1 on this one (as is usually the case Wink).

I've posted this before, but after my son's summer at the Cape there were many chances to jump ship and transfer to some of the "big dog" schools.

If he was selfish I imagine it would have been a better move for him to do so, however he told me he could not have looked either the coaches or his teammates in the eyes again.

Personally, I commend him for making the choices he's made even though initially it's cost him money. Hopefully it will play out in the end. I know he sleeps soundly at night.
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
Commitments are obviously two-way streets. It may be too easy to move around, but until the commitments are firmed up on both ends, the player deserves flexibility. 40 to 50 man rosters in the fall, 35-40 man rosters in the spring, 11.7 scholarships, 30% of players getting 90% of the innings and at bats. Not sure I can call it a mess, but some changes are warrented. From an academic standpoint there is room for improvement.
L lafmom5,000+ posts
I'm going to talk out of both sides of my mouth for a moment.

Yes and No....

Yes, because just to transfer to a bigger fish is wrong. I'd be very disappointed in my son if he did it. He's at a NAIA (albeit a very good one) and I can say with great certainty that if some big DI came knocking he'd tell them to get lost. Just as he was loyal to a HS summer program despite some other very good opportunities. Ya dance with the one that brought ya!

That said, my son has transferred twice! Well sort of! He originally signed with one JUCO and coach left at the end of summer before son started. There were also some issues of the school loosing it's accreditation academically... obviously those where two biggies that warranted his looking elsewhere and obtaining a release. Then, because he rushed to make a decision in that transfer, he ended up with a coach that wasn't even a close fit for him and decided after a year there to go ahead and transfer to a four year... not spend a second year at the JUCO. Some folks might feel he made poor choices with those decisions.... there were what we felt were extenuating circumstances with both. Someone else might not see it that way.

Bottomline, kids have to make a choice based on what they think is fair as well as right for them. I would hope any player would make a choice on all factors and not just with stars in their eyes!

You just can't apply a blanket opinion on this topic, IMO.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Interesting discussion.

Last year Clemson had a pitcher transfer from another conference after having a very productive summer at Cape Cod. We needed a hard throwing closer.
The pitcher, who had good stuff, struggled every bit of the way last year. Coming from a smaller school, I think he was very nervous in front of the huge crowds at evey game at every school, much faster pace, time commitments. As I said he was brought in as the closer, but was unable to close any game without the other team scoring. He was used less and less.

His parents, near the end, got a really bad attitude about things, and quite upset that he didn't get drafted in a very early round. They felt he should have been given a starters position, but the coaches were very fair with the transfer, we had proven starters and the player knew a closer was needed from the beginning.
BTW, he had been drafted, in a better round (under 10) than two of the starters.
This to me, was a clear case of transfering to better ones draft position (was only to be there for one year). This player was given an opportunity to play on a larger stage, with a team that won their conference championship and went to Omaha. Yet in the end, the parents posted very negative things about other players and the coaches.
That is an example of the ugly part of transfering I suppose, maybe what rz is speaking of.

How about the players that I see have transfered 3 times in 3 years. I don't get that one at all.
Lafmom, your sons situation wa different than these transfers, but what would have happened if your son could not have transfered and was unhappy? He would have quit the game, most likely?

What about programs that reload each year without developing current players? Or programs where 40 plus show up in the fall. Is it fair to make a player stay who is unhappy? Unhappiness is infectious, no coach wants an unhappy player on his team.

There are situations, I suppose, where transfers are good and necessary and I am not sure, in the end, if it is up to us to judge why someone needs to make that change, whether it be to better ones chances for the draft (which is more often the case). Maybe it's about playing time, maybe too far from home, to a bigger pond, to a smaller pond, maybe not his type of environment, school too difficult (even without baseball),doesn't get along with coach, we just don't know all of the reasons and should not judge. JMO.

Dad04,
Good point, crowds are bigger in those conferences, and scholarship money can be more temporary. There are a lot of people who just don't understand that point at all.
Last edited by TPM
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:

There are situations, I suppose, where transfers are good and necessary and I am not sure, in the end, if it is up to us to judge why someone needs to make that change. Maybe it's about playing time, maybe too far from home, maybe not his type of environment, school too difficult (even without baseball),doesn't get along with coach, we just don't know all of the reasons.



Those situations and so many more. I don't like the transfer to the bigger better program concept at all. It happens but not often. Not sure you can actually legistlate loyalty, anyway, other than at the alter (half the time).
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by JT:
I can certainly understand the guy jumping from D-III to D-I...
...but I, too, am amazed, by the guys jumping between D-I schools. My question...
...how much of this is brought on by the summer team coaches, many of whom are 2nd or 3rd assistants at the big programs?


I am not sure, but was under the assumption in sanctined summer leagues no D1 caoches can coach.
L lafmom5,000+ posts
quote:
Lafmom, your sons situation wa different than these transfers, but what would have happened if your son could not have transfered and was unhappy? He would have quit the game, most likely?

Exactly!

JT - I don't understand kids that would jump from a DIII to a DI just because an opportunity arose. Did that DI coach not want them before and now that he's developed into a different player, he wants him? What does that say for the DIII coach that got that player developed... just leave him high and dry?

I think kids jump between DIs for the very same reasons... they think the grass is greener and the difference in some DIs can be as great as between DIs and DIIIs. Kid goes to a DI he didn't want to and big DI comes a callin' because they can.... there ya go.

Also, Dad04 gave a wonderful example of schools that stockpile... have 50 kids in the fall and a kid comes in with stars in his eyes or just thinks it doesn't matter sitting as long as he gets to play for big state U.... reality sits in. Can't blame a kid or parent for going into a situation with blinders on either.

There just aren't easy answers for the transfer question.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Go to BA and read the transfers.

Very few players go from smaller programs to bigger, many players go from bigger to smaller(a bit more competitive) and some just make lateral moves.
It's interesting to see many of the same schools have multiple transfers (not including birmingham southern duie to their issues).
Last edited by TPM
S southernmom100+ posts
Rz1 said:

quote:
I guess I raised my kids to respect their committments and question them if the other side would reneg. I'll have to work on stressing to them the fact that the world is an "I" game and committments you make, you do not have to stand behind. It's a privilage to be asked to play baseball and get an education.


Rz1-- This post started from an article written by one person and did not contain any response from those written of which leaves much for one to infer or assume. Please know that I raised my children to respect their commitments as well. At this time, the rules of transfer apply whether we agree with them or not and until they are modified, they are available.

I am not sure how you read into my post that I implement it is an "I" world. From reading posts for the last three years, one would gather decisions (espcially if there are multiple choices)are made by the player based on his own personal reasons and experiences. I can go back and post comment after comment about the player making the choice to best suit him. I obviously did not use a good choice of words to state my opinion. Sorry to have offended you so.
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by JT:
The bigger issue could be one that we've bounced around with from time to time...
...over-recruiting!

Do you want to play at maybe a smaller D-I or do you want to sit playing for one of the big boys?


They sign so many kids because they rarely know which ones can transition to college level baseball, classes, freedoms, etc. They sign too many because they don't know which ones can, will or choose to adjust to the huge fundimental change in their lives the day they enrolled in "college". None of the kids come with money-back guarrantees.
Last edited by Dad04
B bbscout1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by FrankF:
Gotta agree with rz1 on this one (as is usually the case Wink).

I've posted this before, but after my son's summer at the Cape there were many chances to jump ship and transfer to some of the "big dog" schools.

If he was selfish I imagine it would have been a better move for him to do so, however he told me he could not have looked either the coaches or his teammates in the eyes again.

Personally, I commend him for making the choices he's made even though initially it's cost him money. Hopefully it will play out in the end. I know he sleeps soundly at night.


Frank, He did the right thing, and a degree from Dartmouth is worth more than most bonus checks that I can think of.
B bbscout1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by rz1:
Soxnole who ya talkin about Big Grin

I'm old school here and say if someone makes a committment they should honor that committment. Schools go after guys for with the thought of developing their program over time, not someone elses. I understand there are holes in that thought process which includes playing time and academic problems at an existing school. What I don't agree with is a D1 player who uses a school as a stepping stone for a bigger stage. That is what the JUCO system is used for and that mentality puts "I before team". Those situations do exist and while a player should have the right to go to that bigger stage, maybe there would be second thoughts by the player if a coach who has lost the player would have the opportunity, and/or uses rules to put a 1 year "No-Play" type tag on that player who ditches his committment. In many cases there are as Coach Mainieri said "...Oh there's LSU hovering around trying to see who they can steal". That does happen, that is completely wrong, and those players should have to pay the price of jumping ship for personal gain. In some cases the school is not involved in the xfer but that coach should respect the previous teams committment to the player and hold him out of competition for a year.

Lower ranked schools are not a training ground and conduit for the "big boys". That is a pompus and musclehead attitude.

I know that teams have a right to resind/reduce a scholarship on a yearly basis, but that is only done in cases where rules were broken, academics, lack of committment, or other "TEAM" related issues. One of the big questions that a coach asks while sitting on your living room couch is whether he is willing to make a committment to his program because the program is willing to make a committment to him. What would a coach say if that player said, "Well, I'll stick with you for a couple years, but if Mr. Big comes along, I'm dumping you and moving on. I would definitly respect that persons honesty but he sure wouldn't be signing an NLI.



I agree with RZ1 that you should honor your commitment........both sides should honor this commitment.Players jumping ship for greener pastures is wrong and coaches pushing kids out is also wrong. The guy who looks like the good guy, is the guy who talks to and has friends in the press, and this is the story that we end up reading.

There should be rules that are hard and fast, not soft and slippery and the problem once again is the NCAA. For every player who is jumping ship because he is self centered, there is a coach jerking a scholly because he over recruited.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
To his credit, our son also used performance in summer leagues to open doors. It gets pretty attractive and "heady" to hear DI coaches talking about your son and what he could accomplish. In fact, our son was admitted to an ACC school, after he got his release, with projections, by some, he could be a top MI in the ACC.
But two things caused cooler/smarter heads to prevail.
First, a DIII player cannot, by NCAA rule, transfer and receive athletic scholarship money for the first year. Don't ask me why, but it is the rule. (Actually, I know why and it is because they don't want DI coaches recruiting DIII players and they don't want DIII players transfering to DI.)
But the issue that most affected our son, and which has not been mentioned, is transferring credits. Our son was committed to graduating in 4 years, but equally focused on trying to get drafted. He learned that, if he transferred, he would lose enough credits that he would be in school at least one additional year. Our son felt he was getting a degree from a very good and nationally recognized university and did not want to lose the credits that would force him to attend a 5th year, at another very good and nationally recognized university.
Certainly, the issue of transfering is very personal. When you read about all these kids on BA and elsewhere, you need to remember that if a college degree is important, they likely lost a lot units and extended their graduation date. For some, that might not be an issue. For our son, it was paramount.
B Bee>1,000+ posts
quote:
by Frank: Gotta agree with rz1 on this one (as is usually the case )... but after my son's summer at the Cape there were many chances to jump ship and transfer to some of the "big dog" schools.
Confused c'mon - please explain how following NCAA rules instead of the Frank/RZ/Beenthere rules makes the player somehow an unethical guy

is it the NCAA or th F-RZ-BTIL they should consult with re their future plans
Last edited by Bee>
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
Not all transfers work out as hoped. Last year, Ryan Sontag, a star at Michigan State, transferred to Arizona State as, if I recall correctly, a sophomore. He was a starter at the beginning of the year, but did not play very much by the end of the year. Now, with the transfers to ASU from LSU and North Carolina, I doubt he will very often get off the bench and I have to believe he wishes he were still at Michigan State, which is a fine school and a fine place to play D1 college baseball. The grass is not always greener.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
I guess we are all affected by our own experiences.

Given mine - I find it very difficult to have any compassion for the coaches.

They can lie all they want - and when all is said and done - they still can go about their business - field their team - and do their thing.

For the kid that gets lied to - he will have lots of decisions to make - and in many cases - lots of difficult changes to make as well.
Last edited by itsinthegame
FrankFFrankF1,000+ posts
quote:
c'mon - please explain how following NCAA rules instead of the Frank/RZ/Beenthere rules makes the player somehow an unethical guy


Bee,

In my son's case the ONLY reason he would have transferred would have been to POSSIBLY increase his chances in the draft. He loved his time at Dartmouth, and his teammates. He felt he had some unfinished business by trying to get them an Ivy championship which unfortunately didn't happen.

Of course he could have legally (according to NCAA rules) transferred, but it would have been for entirely selfish reasons. Hope this doesn't come off as boasting about my son, but believe it or not, he does think the game is bigger than himself. By staying, he's made friends who will be there for life. Two from opposite coasts will be there for his wedding Saturday and one from England is hoping to be there.

I don't have a problem with transferring with good cause, but just because the rules allow it doesn't always make it the right decision, IN MY OPINION.

Okay, off my soap box now.

Leaving in the morning. Talk at you all when I get back.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I always admired Josh for his continued allegiance to his school and team.

I also know that it could have been very easy for him to transfer after his successful summer at the cape.

IMO, his commitmentt is the way it should be, and considering how things pan out in pro ball for him, he has that Dartmouth degree to fall back on, he is very fortunate.

Josh was able to be an impact player, and was able to have significant playing time as a pitcher.

What if Josh had gone and not been able to have that significant playing time, what if his position had been way over recruited, would he have looked at things differently?

I am just using Josh as an example of how it should be done. But, it doesn't always turn out that way, no matter how hard we try to help sons find the right fit.

How many D1 players are in college baseball? Compare that to the D1 transfers, the ratio is very small, you are not talking massive transfer #'s here.


I am a beleiver that the grass is not always greener. I just don't understand why players don't pay closer attention to the schools that continually have revolving doors, and why some players feel that need to transfer 2, 3 times. If reasons for more playing time and hasn't worked out the first, second time, why the third?

Father of the groom, hope you didn't mind the above! Big Grin
Best wishes and ENJOY!
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