Too little too late

Random?

Interesting post. Elaborate a little please?

The only person you hurt when you hold that bitterness inside of you, is you.

Blew off a little steam, did it without using names, end of story...hopefully.

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"watch TV like you usually do."

I know I never missed an episode!


That really was a good show...here's a glimpse.




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Feel better now?

quote:

The only person you hurt when you hold that bitterness inside of you, is you.

I'd agree with that!

As an aside as my son went through something similiar with a coach, but my son has been civil with the coach and has been able to use his facilities to work out during the offseason with no problems. There is no benefit to rubbing it in the guys face, it should be good enough that he saw your son get drafted.

A similar thing happened with a player from a local HS, although the specifics were better in some areas and worse in others. It obviously didn't bother the player because he went back and helped coach there as a volunteer in the off season.

The Dad simply said that whenever he ran into the coach he would smile and shake hands for his son's sake but that he still hated the "S_O_B".

I thought that was a pretty good way to handle it.

I had told myself at one time if they listed my son as an alumni I'd tell them to take it off their site but that would have only hurt my son. The reality is that no matter how much you may think your son got a bad deal in HS there are other people out there who are convinced that everyone was treated totally fairly and complaining about the past will only denigrate the accomplishments of players who are proud of what they did in HS.

quote:

Originally posted by That's Baseball:
If you were not willing to help the kid when you were coaching him in high school why bother reaching out to help after he has gotten drafted. You didn't believe he was a D1 player so you didn't work to help get him recruited by the D1 school he got into. You didn't believe in the kid. What can you tell him now that he has been drafted. Coach go home, sit on the couch, open a cold one and watch TV like you usually do. The kid doesn't need your help now.

Yea, yea, we've all heard and seen it. Want some advice? Get a grip, move on.

My son played Varsity baseball for a team thats won 7 state titles. The Coach started every annual Parent team meeting with the speech detailing how it wasn't his job or interest to get "your son" a baseball scholarship or drafted." "His job, as he saw it, was to win H.S. baseball games and championships. He did that quite well and to my knowledge, hasn't really helped anyone. All that wanted to play beyond high school, found a way.

That's life, If you want it done, YOU make sure it gets done.

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I hear ya' Prime. With the strength, reputation, and success of the high school baseball program he has built your son's coach helps his players out plenty.

The success that his teams have achieved does not go unnoticed. And he knows it. I'll bet he's a great coach!

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GW4,
That may or may not be the case there but in our league the same coaches get players placed in college year in and year out. The talent and success of the teams vary but the same coaches still get kids into college year in and year out. The coaches who don't help don't get them placed even in the years they do well in the playoffs.

It is one of the strongest leagues in the country almost every year so one would expect that the teams who make the playoffs would place players in college jobs. That doesn't happen. The coaches who help get the kids into college place the most players and the ones who don't help the players don't.

I think that last year the last place team had 4 or 5 D1 scholarships. The 2nd place team (1st place team had 2 pitchers drafted, one in the 2nd round) that also did well in the CIF SS playoffs had 1 scholarship player who did it on his own by hitting low 90s at a college camp and signed with that school.

Things like discouraging players from playing for travel teams or showcasing, not passing on letters from colleges, refusing to return scout's calls and more than a bit of CYA when assessing players just doesn't help.

This year a high GPA pitcher with tons of pitchability and toughness who works 85-87 and hides the ball well is headed to a JC unless someone picks him up at the last minute. Oh yeah, relative to success he threw a shutout in the first round of the playoffs along with posting wins over some of the top teams in the nation during the season. If it wasn't such an ongoing thing I'd just figure it was the kid's fault, but I think he'd have signed a while back if he was at most other schools.

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I guess I was just trying to be hopeful. I understand about being responsible for doing your homework and preparing for when opportunity knocks.

I say this because our sons, both good ballplayers, had a HS coach (a football coach new to baseball) who would receive valuable recruiting and exposure information and just stuff it into a folder. He didn't share any of these opportunities with his players, but he did offer to show it to parents and players if they had asked. When we realized that this is how this (now former) baseball coach operated it was too late for us. Unfortunately we didn't discover the HSBBW until later. Knowing about the HSBBW then would have really helped. We definitely would do it differently knowing what we know now. Our sons missed some good opportunities primarily because the coach showed no interest in helping when help was needed.

And that is why I am happy to see new members discovering this great website. The knowledge that can be gained here is quite valuable!




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quote:

Originally posted by That's Baseball:
If you were not willing to help the kid when you were coaching him in high school why bother reaching out to help after he has gotten drafted. You didn't believe he was a D1 player so you didn't work to help get him recruited by the D1 school he got into. You didn't believe in the kid. What can you tell him now that he has been drafted. Coach go home, sit on the couch, open a cold one and watch TV like you usually do. The kid doesn't need your help now.

There is no indication that this was a HS coach, only a coach who coached in HS, which could refer to a travel coach.

I was thinking here we go again, another bad rap on the HS coach. My sons HS coach had absolutely no involvment in the recruiting process. I don't think that it was that he didn't want to, he just played it fair down the line, help everyone or no one. Regardless, what is the purpose of this topic? If your son got a scholarship to a D1, got drafted, why the anger?

I remember on son's travel team a mother raging mad that the coach didn't help her son. His reasons were that after he got to know him and see him play, he didn't feel that refering him to a D1 coach was in his (coaches) best interest. Perhaps that is why many don't help most.

"coaching him in high school" implied HS coach to me but you're right it could have been a travel ball coach.

Is my bias showing?

If these coaches want to be just coaches go to a place where you can be just that. College level, professional, independent leaque or whatever. But where I live our coaches are also suppose to be educators which means your intentions as an educator is to make sure the kids you are responsible for move on to a higher level in education for one. But when you want a kid to sacrifice his future for your high school program you have gone to far. Some of these coaches have kids personally that another coach will be responsible for one day. I am really wondering if they are just going to go along with the coach's program for high school baseball or make sure their kid's have a chance in life.Do you really want to make them an Al Bundy of the world where the only thing they can talk about is the touchdown they made in high school. You guys need to wake up. When these kids graduate they can't even go back up to the school without getting permission from the office to walk through first and if they don't get that permission they can be arrested for trespassing. Get a grip

That's Baseball- I would love to respond to this thread because it is something that is right up my alley, but I don't understand your last post at all. Are you really referencing a high school baseball coach or are you just going on a rant about the flaws that you feel your son's school district has? Who is sacrificing anything here? The lack of details and extreme presence of emotions causes it all to be very confusing.

A little too generic there. Of course the older kids can't go hang out at the school once they've graduated. That only makes sense.

However, at our school the ex-players often use the HS field to practice on during non-school hours with the obvious limits to use of not doing anything to mess up the field and not interfering with the team in any way. The coaches can and at times do bar anyone who doesn't comply from using the field. Remember there's a liability issue for the coaches and the school.

That is so mild. No one will ever top the 2009 rant of Vinny Revaile, father of a U. Houston pitcher. He put up a website houstoncougarsbaseball.com (ALL CAPS) (taken down after a couple of weeks) absolutely creaming the head coach (now gone) for several pages of all CAPS deluded, rose colored glasses ranting.

All that remains are a few web articles documenting the epic all-time rant, such as;

Deadspin Vinny Revaile Article

JH there really is no emotion in this post. Maybe that is the way some feel because of their personal take on the subject. I am not referring to all HS coaches and those that are good coaches understand completely because they have their own conversations about these coaches that I am referencing. My HS coach was absolutely awesome and the lifesyle I have today is because of that coach and the game. Like anything there is good and bad. This site appears to be full of high school coaches that don't want to accept their responsibilities of helping these kids. And it is a responsibility. Question for you JH, Is it possible that the reason coaches don't speak with recruiters and scouts is because they do not want to be exposed for how little they truly know about the game. It amazes me how few coaches understand the terms like strike foot or taking the pitch with your legs or loose arm action. Their are some kids that are lucky to have knowledgeable parents but what about those that don't and are really expecting their coach to be of assistance. All I say to coaches is to reflect on the reason that you do this. Is it for the state trophy or is it because you want to make a difference in a kid's life.

I agree with everything you have said in terms of knowledgeability and teaching of the game. The fact of the matter is that there are many coaches out there that don't know as much about the game as one would think...at all levels. Is it frustrating? Absolutely. But it happens everywhere.

I don't have an answer to your question because I have no idea. I am a college baseball player who had no help from his high school baseball coach. He was extremely knowledgable about baseball and played at a very high level himself. His personality and approach to his players left something to be desired. Bitterness about one's negative experiences in the past will not allow them to have a successful feature. I don't keep in contact with my high school coach anymore, nor do I plan to. But I am appreciative of how he handled the team and how he treated me, because it enabled me to mature as a person and to be able to differentiate the right and wrong approaches to situations in a sociological atmosphere. Experiences are all how one perceives them for themselves, and what they make out of them.

I would compare the situation to dads that suddenly show up when a rookie signs a big $ contract.

Yes, we all know that the ultimate responsibility for recruiting lies with the player. I also think coaches should do what they can. If they did nothing, they shouldn't come out of the shadows and into the spotlight when the player hits it 'big', acting like they had something to do with it. I see what he is saying.

JH
I absolutely love your approach to that situation and being able to move forward. But until more folks work towards correcting this problem those that don't have your maturity level may never have the opportunity to mature in a game that they love because of someone else's ineptness.

That's Baseball- In all honesty, I don't think that a bad experience should hinder one's love for the game. If you truly love the game, you should be able to overcome that. And if you are going to be successful at the higher levels of the game, the level of maturity you speak of is a necessity also. Baseball is a humbling game and dealing with adversity is a major facet of success.

My approach to that may be too harsh, and might be old-school, but that's how I feel. If a coach ****es you off, learn from it and deal with it. If you can't then you don't love the game...then don't play. I can't comment on the pro experience because I haven't been there, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that if a player takes everything a college coach says to heart then they'd probably quit in the first week of the fall, because they usually aren't the nicest things in the world.

One of the "byproducts" of pursuing baseball after HS is learning to help yourself and figuring out what you want to do with your life. Empowering kids at a young age to lookout for their own future is not a bad experience.

btw, I am all for blaming the former coach for a bad experience if it somehow motivates you to achieve more then you normally would

quote:

This site appears to be full of high school coaches that don't want to accept their responsibilities of helping these kids.

You want to try and explain this one a little more? You want to try and give some examples of what you mean as well?

I know this - I can't make a kid want it because that is totally up to them. I also know I typically cannot make a phone call and get a kid a scholarship. Only thing I can do is steer a kid in the right direction and hopefully create an opportunity that they can follow through with.

One year I had this kid who could play at a smaller level school but he was on the fence as to if he wanted to or not. I set up some tryouts with two schools that were local and he blew both of them off. Made me look like a complete fool with those schools and it hurts guys down the line who may truly want it.

I'm not sure what you expect from a coach but to complain because graduates can't walk onto campus whenever they want is pretty ridiculous. That's pretty much standard at schools all over the country.

You've made three posts on here with this thread and they are just ramblings about whatever. Please explain what you mean.

quote:

Originally posted by J H:
My approach to that may be too harsh, and might be old-school, but that's how I feel. If a coach ****es you off, learn from it and deal with it. If you can't then you don't love the game...then don't play. I can't comment on the pro experience because I haven't been there, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that if a player takes everything a college coach says to heart then they'd probably quit in the first week of the fall, because they usually aren't the nicest things in the world.

Good stuff above.

I can't for the life of me figure out the purpose of this topic.

I can't talk about all HS coaches but my experience relative to a HS coach helping or not helping with recruiting, etc. seemed to show that it wasn't a matter of not wanting to help as much as being worried about overselling players and losing credibility. The other things that happened, such as wanting players to play for him in the summer, seemed to be due to insecurity more than anything else.

I don't think it was due to a lack of desire to help.

I really don't know any of these HS coaches on this site your talking about. Maybe you can fill me in. I really would like for you do that.

I want my players to be the best players they can be. The better my players are the better my team. The better the players are the more opportunities they will have after hs and the more success they will have once they move on to the next level.

I want my players to understand what it is going to take to survive and excell at the next level. So I prepare them for the next level by the way I coach them at the hs level. I teach them about the type of work ethic both on the feild and in the class room its going to take. I teach them about mental toughness. I tell them what they do in the off season when no one is watching will determine what they can do during the season when everyone is watching.

I work very hard to make sure I find the right fit for them. And we work together in this process. A guy imo who is a mid major talent right now and will get a chance to play early may be the better player in three years than the guy who I believe is a Major D1 talent right now. The JUCO guy may be the most talented of the group. I give them my opinion and I work with them.

I can not help anyone once I lose my credibility with the college coaches and professional scouts. So I have to make sure that I am honest not only with the players but with the coaches and scouts. I believe it is my job to help players reach the next level by teaching them what its going to take and helping them be the best they can be. And then going out and working to find them the right fit. Sometimes players decide another fit is better. Thats fine. But at least I have helped them to the best of my ability. And after all the final decision is theirs to make.

The player has to want it. They have to be willing to pay the price to get it. And I will do my part. Everyone is not going to agree with me. If I dont think a kid is ACC material I am not going to tell area ACC coaches he can play for them. Because when I do have an ACC player and I have lost all credibility with those coaches no one is going to want to listen to me. That player may be very good. And he may be UNCG good. And he may be drafted. Was I wrong?

A player was drafted this year who was released from a Major College program after his soph fall season. He went to a D2 and lit it up. Was that Major College coach wrong? Maybe the guy in front of him at that school was a first round draft pick? Maybe the next guy was a top 10 round draft pick coming out of HS and was being groomed to replace the 1st round draft pick? Maybe he could have played at a number of other D1's but the fact is he was at the wrong place at the wrong time?

Your son got drafted. He has signed with a D1 program. Its all good.

I have never understood how hs coaches on this site get called out so often. And if you or someone else does not get the response your looking for or wanting then those people get attacked with negative responses.

My job is to win games. My job is to help young men be the best players they can possibly be. My job is to prepare young for life and use the game of baseball as a way to do that. And for those that have the work ethic , desire , and ability - help them to the best of my ability obtain that goal. If some other hs coach does not do that so be it. Bitterness eats you up and no one else. Let it go. You will be much happier.

Coach_May, Terrific post as always!

All I know is drafted or not, if the 'held' bitterness expressed in the start of this thread is also 'held' by the player...he will have little to no chance of success in D1 or pro baseball. And I mean virtually no chance.

The parent has no chance whatsoever.

The player will have to overcome obstacles 10x...100x more difficult than being dissed/ignored by a HS/summer coach.

In short, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
In short, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Amen to that statement!

My son is one of the lucky ones and we can not be appreciative enough to his high school coach. When my son got to the point where he was noticed, whether through HS or travel, and calls started coming in, because of NCAA rules, they came to his coach who relayed the info to my son and me on who we needed to return calls to. He even went as far as to meet with me several times so that I knew everything he did and to what extent he could act on our part. Between Juco & D1 this guy juggled 13 different schools and went as far as to call others, with my permission, to let them in on the interest which resulted in more eyes on my son.

He gave us advice but never directed us to any one school over another. It was not only my son he helped but any player on his team that garnered interest. I would like to say that we 'happened' to be lucky that my son ended up with a coach like this but the truth is I transferred him to this school after 7th & 8th grade JV at a different school that was pretty much what the OP described. Best thing we ever did for our son. It didn't hurt that his coach is one of the most respected within the high school and college coaching network in SC and they take him at his word.

This coach believes that as a teacher and coach it is his responsibility to do what he can for his player/students to aid in furthering their education beyound HS the same as it is a math, science, or english teacher.

quote:

Originally posted by That's Baseball:
This site appears to be full of high school coaches that don't want to accept their responsibilities of helping these kids.

I was with you until you wrote this.

The truth is somewhere in between. Yes, these coaches want to help kids and yes, they want to win championships. I can think of a few coaches that hindered my son along the way but I drilled into him a long time ago something important: Shut up and play. It is only by his play on the field that he will shove it up their a**.

As for getting to the next level, why would anyone rely on a h.s. coach to do that? Sure, it's nice they help, but there are showcases, camps, emails and telephones that can overcome that. Getting to the next level is the responsibility of the player and perhaps the player's parent.

I was willing to listen until I read that. Bum I wish more parents would tell their sons that.

"Guess what son Coach May doesn't think your good enough if he did you would be in the line up. So guess what? Work your butt off. And shove it up his a**. Prove to him he is wrong. And if that happens while your in HS great. And if it doesnt happen to your in college, great. But you have a choice to make. Accept what he thinks or prove him wrong. What you gonna do boy?"

Holding bitterness inside of you only makes you a bitter person. The only person your hurting is yourself and even worse maybe your kid. What do you have to prove to anyone anyway? Your son is the player not you. He is the one that will have to learn how to deal with adversity. And he is the one that will overcome it if you dont spoil the taste in his mouth with your bitter bs.

You know I can always tell how much experience someone has in this game and how much they probably played by their posts. We all know that the game throws us curveballs in fastball counts. And so does life. Some choose to whine and b*tch about it. Others understand that every day you get to play the game is a blessing.

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them."

I will stick with that. It comes from a pretty good source.

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:

quote:

Originally posted by That's Baseball:
This site appears to be full of high school coaches that don't want to accept their responsibilities of helping these kids.

I was with you until you wrote this.

The truth is somewhere in between. Yes, these coaches want to help kids and yes, they want to win championships. I can think of a few coaches that hindered my son along the way but I drilled into him a long time ago something important: Shut up and play. It is only by his play on the field that he will shove it up their a**.

As for getting to the next level, why would anyone rely on a h.s. coach to do that? Sure, it's nice they help, but there are showcases, camps, emails and telephones that can overcome that. Getting to the next level is the responsibility of the player and perhaps the player's parent.