Too many pitches

I see the 4-seam and 2-seam as variations of the same pitch, the fastball. To me, that's one pitch. Drop the KB, for most it is a dumb pitch especially at the higher levels. It detracts from the fastball, the most important pitch of all. How many KBallers also have a good fastball? None that I know of. The change is crucial, so keep that. Pick between the curve and slider, IMHO. If the curve is good--and consistent--it is superior to the slider but for most young pitchers it is hard to master. The CB should have a sharp, true two-plane break that is thrown for a strike at least 50-60% of the time.

You did not say how old is the pitcher..

Agree with BUM except can the slider. Not needed and not safe at young ages. Wait until college.

Learn how to properly throw a hard breaking curve, which takes time. If he is younger just focus on FB and CU. If he can hit his spots and change speeds and he will be way ahead of the... um.. "Curve"....

Unless you have a dominating fastball all is for naught. A truly great pitcher, a least at the high school level, should be able to dominate with the fastball alone, if the velocity is there, changing locations to keep the hitter off-balance. Now mix in any type of off-speed pitch and you will be all-state. A good curve acts like a change (change in speeds).

Bottom line is, this pitcher you describe you 1) concentrate on developing a dominating fastball, 2) identify his best offspeed pitch (change or breaking pitch) and throw that, and 3) work hard on the weakest pitch in bullpens and practice, mixing it up in games periodically to gain experience. Once the pitcher has mastered three -- pretty hard to do -- only then should he think about adding the fourth.

Why not throw them all each day?

Obviously, only throw the pitches that are working that day during the game.

Make sure that 2 seamer is moving around.

BUM:

They ought to take your post and put it under a part of this web site called "so you want to pitch in High School"


SoS: I think the best closer in baseball does just that.

A couple of comments/ideas from my sons High School Coach.

1. "If you can't throw it for strikes in any count, it is not a pitch."

2. In early season games he only lets the pitchers throw FB's. This focuses them on their mechanics and teaches them how to get outs with "one" pitch.

I recently saw an info program on the Marlins pitchers and most only rely on two or three dominate pitches. Even MLB players still work on developing a third or possibly fourth pitch. Why would you have a HS player work on 6? As one of them stated, it's hard to be a "jack of all trades and a master of none". Keep that in mind as your pitcher matures.

All I have to say is that I am glad that my son's pitching coach has worked with more than several MLB pitchers and believes that the knuckle ball is worth keeping. My son's high school coach also likes his knuckle. A certain coach from a certain D-I University likes it too. Go figure.

MTS,

I think the reason most Coaches don't like the KB is that the Catchers have trouble catching it. I actually like it if they don't have a CU that moves some. I wouldn't throw it more than 10 times in a game, but that's just to save wear and tear on my Catcher.

Catchers seem to have a bigger problem catching and holding on to his 2 seam fastball. He's even knocked the mitt off two catchers.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I recently saw an info program on the Marlins pitchers and most only rely on two or three dominate pitches. Even MLB players still work on developing a third or possibly fourth pitch. Why would you have a HS player work on 6? As one of them stated, it's hard to be a "jack of all trades and a master of none". Keep that in mind as your pitcher matures.

I do try and think ahead but he seems to have good command of these pitches and I guess he is lucky because our catcher doesn't seem to have a problem cathcing his KB. My son and him argue because thats the pitch the cather calls 70% of the time.

I have never seen a MLB pitcher that is not a "knuckleball pitcher" throw a KB. Your either a "KB pitcher" or you never throw it. So unless your kid is going to be one I wouldn't spend much time working on one.
In youth or HS ball I have yet to see one that is really effective.

norstar:

You have not said how old your son is but please read BUM's response above. IMO this is a fundamental truth for HS pitchers.

If you want your boy to pitch in HS he must follow this advice. Have him can all of the "fun" pitches and get him focused on a great FB. There are exceptions but they are just that.

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
I have never seen a MLB pitcher that is not a "knuckleball pitcher" throw a KB. Your either a "KB pitcher" or you never throw it. So unless your kid is going to be one I wouldn't spend much time working on one.
In youth or HS ball I have yet to see one that is really effective.

My son's pitching coach in college would not allow son to throw one, though he taught him how to throw one properly.

The catcher calling the KB 70% of the time is not allowing for him to throw the more important pitches, IMO.

This subject comes up all of the time, if your pitcher throws a good 2 seam FB with movement and control, (doesn't even need to be 90+) with at least two secondary pitches (not necessarily perfect yet and not necessarily one being the KB) and throws them for strikes, he will be a starter in college and recruited and given a good scholarship for that reason. The high school coach likes it because it may get other HS players out, the D1 coach may like it, but may not allow him to use it when he gets there. I, personally have very rarely seen KB's thrown in college games and none to many in milb.

JMO.

BOF... he's 14.

He has a very effective FB with good movement on the 2 seam left or right depending on which finger he applies pressure.


TPM - The catcher calls it 70% but my son normally shakes it off.. I would say 10% of his pitches are KB. Reason I posted that was to show that our catcher has no problems catching this pitch.


The KB is NOT his primary pitch. FB and CU are used 80% of the time.

quote:

Originally posted by norstar:
BOF... he's 14.

He has a very effective FB with good movement on the 2 seam left or right depending on which finger he applies pressure.


The KB is NOT his primary pitch. FB and CU are used 80% of the time.

What a great age! I guess he will be a HS Freshmen...if not at least soon. Enjoy!

Until my son moved to the 60’ pitching distance he threw a “knuckle curve” as his off speed breaking pitch that was very effective at the shorter distances and it was also a very safe pitch to throw. As soon as he got the HS the coach told him to "can" the pitch and work on his FB, CU and Curve.

Just an anecdotal story, my son played against a team this summer that had a very nice pitcher, big kid threw pretty hard, I thought he had great potential. However his only off speed pitch was a knuckle ball. The hitters just sat on his FB and ignored the KB. We hammered him in two games we played them.

BOF, your story illustrates why a young pitcher should first concentrate on the dominating fastball. This young man you describe as throwing hard probably hasn't first learned to locate his fastball.

Most 14 y.o.'s have at most two probably only one good pitch. If that one pitch is offspeed, so much the better by concentrating on developing a dominating fastball. If that one pitch is the dominating fastball, begin to master the second (offspeed) pitch. Then work on the third pitch in bullpens. But IMHO knuckleballers never do develop a dominating fastball, either because they alter their grip or arm action or because they never learn to locate their fastball instead relying on trick-pitch outs.